Feedback: Monks

buff it while casted doing soothing mist? make it heal more if you don’t talent into instant cast? There are many easy ways to avoid degrading the playstyle.

I mean, you really cant see why the game that has evolved into constant movement for a challenge might have a hard time with a healer that can run around and heal 3+ people at a time with full efficacy (and not a hot)? Heck look at riptide initial heal in logs.

Even the magma boss dude in the first dragonflight dungeon, you have where people are running around a circle with a beam rotating around (or the mechagon boss). You just jump around casting it to no ill effect… i mean come on. I get how it makes melee feel good, and im willing to give it to you - but i want you to be limited to when youre doing melee, not all the time.

Ill tell you fun gameplay tho - uplift.

Why should druids be allowed to heal on the move then? rejuvenation, cenarion ward, lifebloom, flourish, swiftmend, efflorescence.

Also it’s not 3 people at full efficacy, the cleave heals less than the your main target. But to stay on this course, my answer is the same as before: the vivify cleave is a reward for spreading, and maintaining renewing mists. If you go unprepared into aoe damage, you can spend 2 globals on renewing mist, then 1 on vivify for 3 in total. how is that different from a healing surge + 2 riptides? 3 rejuvs?

3 Likes

Oh come on now youre not comboing like a mad man. You dont even have to target somebody with Renewing mist anymore.

They have nature;s swiftness… to give them ONE instant cast heal. Lol for a talent point.

you just chose to ignore the 6 spells i listed? You even get double lifebloom in dragonflight!

4 Likes

This exactly and if you maintained 3 Renewing Mist on your party, you could cast instant cast 2-3 Vivify to cleave heal everyone with Invigorating Mist talent and our mastery. It was really good synergy.

3 Likes

This was true all of SL. :frowning: It needs help!
I hit #1 on my server group in S1 just getting the deathwalker

1 Like

Mistweaver:

Ok! People we have BIG problems when it comes to MW for M+. We have no group utility that is desired. No1 is forming groups with Ring of Peace in mind.

We need some type of utility that will help us get into M+.
Shamans have BL
Pally/Druid have BR
Priest has PI
Monk has ------

We need utility! Or we’ll be bottom healer again for M+. Either utility or our damage must be tuned super high. I would not bet on our damage being very great if history is telling us anything.

Work together to get something done or be bottom healer AGAIN. It is insane trying to get into M+ groups as a MW in season 4. At +22 people would be amazed to even see a MW.

The mists of Pandaria [1][2] were magical mists conjured by the Emperor of Pandaria, Shaohao. They protected the inhabitants of the lands during the Great Sundering of Kalimdor at the end of the War of the Ancients.

If we can mist an island, I can mist a group for 10seconds.
:panda_face:
Give MW group shroud. It would actually make sense for us to have a group shroud.

You all need to support a healer group utility. Support SOMETHING.

16 Likes

Nobody disagrees that that gameplay was good. It was great, it is great (its still live for me on beta?? and ptr??).

As a mistweaver monk, im happy insta vivify is gone, and the 10sec CD sounds fine… as long as when you cast it with soothing mist, it doesnt count and waste it.

2 Likes

Curious: what makes the change positive for you?

There has been some improvements with the recent changes to the general monk tree, but some of the most concerning issues are still there:

  • Soothing Mist: this spell is useless for WW and BrM, but we’re forced to take it for some of the talents below it.

  • Fortifying Brew: this spell is still locked behind really situational talents. Paralysis and Disable are spells that we’ll never use in most raid encounters.

  • Provoke Speed Buff: this talent will never be picked, even in situations where it could be useful. It’s not worth a talent point when compared to other things we could get.

  • Escape from Reality: you can pick this talent while skipping Trascendance.

These are a few things that I think could fix some of those problems:

  • Move Detox to Row 1, where Soothing Mist is. I’d rather have a spell I’ll press sometimes as WW/BrM rather than a spell I’ll never press, and it keeps the healing theme of the left side of the tree.

  • Move Soothing Mist to the Row 2, where the second charge of Roll is.

  • Move the second charge of Roll to where Disable. Whatever is behind Fortifying Brew will be a mandatory talent, the second charge of Roll might fit that role.

  • Move Disable to the Row 3, where Detox is.

  • Move Tiger Tail Sweep to Row 6, where Provoke is. This way, it becomes way more accesible for WW/BrM,

  • Make the Provoke talent baseline.

8 Likes

I don’t think these people that are against instant vivify have even the faintest clue what it’s like to step into something such as a +22 key on MW. The other healers have no issue with burst heals on heavy AoE damage and it’s a shame that people that play this class don’t want that.

4 Likes

Hello, I have some points of feedback to mention on the recent Monk changes:
I’m atleast moderately happy to see I don’t have to spend a point to use EH, and enjoy that you’re adding more support for it as an ability, it helps from a mistweaver pov to look for a reason to use it.

I have a few problems with this however, I find the niche created for Expel Harm for a Mistweaver is rather conflictive, it is effectively bound to yourself because in a majority of cases if you need to heal 2 people vivify is pretty good at handling it, and wouldn’t require channelling soothing mist in the first place (which makes you spend more gcd time to use it, not less)

I request you look into the possibility of decoupling it from soothing mist (not not its ability to be used during soothing mist) and taking the healing split from itself and soothing mist onto the target, and allowing you to cast it on who you’d like. This would give it a good space as a cheap and incredibly efficient spot healing tool.

IF you have no intentions on making changes to increase its use case on allies I feel its best you push hard on its ability to self heal, or its cheapness to give it more reasons to be used, despite adding more crit chance and crit healing its still ultimately the same ability and will remain similarly niche, if not used slightly more because of the increased power.

However despite you adding more power to EH, you have to effectively go on complete opposite sides of the tree, which limits your choice on other talent options, leaving me to believe in a majority pve scenario to be left alone again for another expansion.

Another point of worry is your change to Vivacious vivification:

I feel this is a mistake for the reasons you gave, as this talent does not devaluate soothing mist, but increases your choice with soothing mist, but creating choices on whether you should use it while moving, or to wait to plant and sooth.

Beside that, I feel this nerf will leave this talent in an otherwise mostly unused or an unenjoyable state as the often swaps between casted and instant will leave you wanting to ignore it.

For example if you were intending on casting two vivifies in a row, let alone more, and didn’t want to funnel it into one target you will have a period with haste ignored (for this case) almost 3 seconds straight where you are not doing anything, which being as often as 10 seconds will make it have the same icky feeling you get when you have to stand there doing nothing for the entirety of essence font. Please look for another path to achieve your goals.

If you can’t I’d like for ask for you to remove this talent as its designed and look into making it a cd window of some sort so you have some control of when you’d like it, because as it stands you are limited by time and play, maybe even going as far as to waste vivify casts at some points in time to grant you instant casts at others.

5 Likes

After waiting over a month to see any class tree changes, the ones you have given us this week feel like an insult. The two most prevalent pieces of feedback were:

  1. Locking one of our roll charges that should be baseline behind Soothing Mist, a button that even many Mistweavers don’t enjoy pressing and that Brewmasters and Windwalkers will almost never press. This was not addressed at all.

  2. Locking Fortifying Brew (a key defensive ability useful in every raid encounter) behind not only Paralysis (an ability used to CC mobs in 1 encounter per raid but is otherwise useless on most boss fights) but also cooldown reduction for Paralysis. You claimed to recognize this issue in the patch notes post today, however your solution was to lock Fortifying Brew behind Disable instead (an ability only used in PvP).

Instant Vivify nerf was probably warranted but sucks for a melee Mistweaver playstyle and the suggestion posted earlier of changing it to “Rising Sun Kick makes your next Vivify instant cast” sounds like a much better design that achieves the same goal.

Cat statue nerf was a bit heavy handed, it was only doing about 6% of my overall damage on a target dummy before the nerf. Nerfing it by 75% makes it almost not worth a point anymore, and it’s a capstone.

4 Likes

It’ll be ultra annoying trying to vivify and not knowing exactly at the moment if you have the instant version or cast version. This will make the rotation feel clunky.

I probably wont take the talent anymore because of how the rotation will feel. It’ll make our healing very not consistent. I’d rather have consistency.

Another thing to track in melee sounds awful. I don’t use addons like WA as well. This is really not a great decision. I was okay with it at first but not after playing around with it.

4 Likes

I agree wholeheartedly, unless you are constantly tracking a buff, or a weak aura you will not know when you will burn your 1 instant viv, which could have been used on movement coming up.

That reminds me, can we have some of those character visual flairs for resets on Rising Sun Kick and Faeline Stomp, otherwise you will have to do the same with the above when you guys have made some pretty cute visual flairs in the past which could add more immersion to the playstyle.

4 Likes

The change to Vivacious Vivification is bad. Not because I don’t want instant Vivify, I do, but the instant Vivify once every 10s feels awful.

I don’t want to track this. I don’t want to have a glowy icon, or a WeakAura to tell me it’s instant. Especially because of the GCD. This doesn’t feel good.

If Blizzard devs are insistent on removing the instant cast, fine, but rework this talent. This feels awful.

15 Likes

Mistweaver feedback on the 9/13 build:

As OP as it was, the nerf to instant Vivify feels extremely bad and as much as I’d love to complain about how it’s too heavy of a nerf, I think it’s more constructive to instead ask (beg) for more control over the proc, and I have a few ideas of how they could do that.

I’m looking at this from a rangeweaving perspective, or at least from the perspective of someone who runs a non-fistweaving build, and with that in mind I also want to put out a few simple concepts for how the rangeweaver playstyle could gain some viability as a DPS without having to invent us a whole new set of abilities.

I agree with the developer’s note that having Vivify be instant all the time with its current functionality is probably too much of a good thing and reduces “decision space” especially with the new buffs to other parts of our toolkit… but working around a proc with independent timing isn’t fun. I’m not sure if delaying using the instant vivify delays the next proc - which would give us back a fraction of control - but it still doesn’t feel great, and it also sounds like it might be too easy to waste if we’re already hard casting a few vivifies at the time. Also, something we can control > something we have to track.

Looking at the developer’s note, if they’re concerned about “obsoleting” Soothing Mist (which it sounds like many agree is already an obsolete or at least a disliked part of the toolkit), how about giving us reasons to want to use it? What if we baked this instant vivify proc into something we can strongly affect and control by using soothing mist beforehand?

Just a few implementations I could imagine:
A) Every 1 sec spent channeling Soothing Mist gives you 0.5 seconds where Vivify casts instantly, beginning as soon as Soothing Mist ends/is cancelled.
B) Channeling Soothing Mist for its full duration makes your next 2 Vivify casts instant.
C) Soothing Mist increases the cast speed of Vivify by 12.5% per tick (up to 100%) for 4 seconds, beginning once the Soothing Mist cast ends/is cancelled.

I’m sure this sounds absolutely disgusting to people who already hate Soothing Mist, but I’m still hoping someday they’ll give us some exciting ranged DPS options, which brings me to some simple concepts for ranged DPS, most of which are about manipulating interactions between existing abilities:

Again, just some concepts I’d love to see realized:
A) Every X seconds spent channeling Crackling Jade Lightning increases its damage by Y, ending when the cast completes. When the cast ends/is cancelled, it triggers a small AoE burst centered on the target that deals more damage based on how long you channeled for. (To make this work we’d probably want a longer maximum channel duration than it currently has.)
B) Every target hit with Chi Burst causes our next Crackling Jade Lightning to strike an additional target. If Chi Burst hits less than X targets, the damage of your next Crackling Jade Lightning is increased by Y.
C) Have your jade serpent/white tiger statue function differently, where you place it and then channel/cast heals into it to trigger different damaging effects (see the above concepts for ideas).
D) Channeling Crackling Jade Lightning for its full duration empowers your Spinning Crane Kick to deal X additional nature damage for Y seconds, beginning when the cast ends. (Or really any kind of temporary buff with a similar trigger.)
E) They could just copy-paste the AoE jade lightning and spammable single-target Chi Burst used by the friendly NPC from the Tank Proving Grounds scenario, replacing our kicks with them. You’d probably want these to deal a bit less than their melee alternatives since they have the benefit of being castable at range.
F) Corrosive Dosage LET’S GOOOOOOOO? (even I don’t know if I’m serious about this one, but I couldn’t leave it out, even though the version we get in Torghast is massively boring on its own)

I know I’m in the minority here asking for rangeweaving options, but… thoughts? :slight_smile:

4 Likes

Overall pretty happy with the windwalker tree, but there are a few things that should be furthered looked at.

The choices to start pathing the left side of the tree feel a lot worse than the right side. Touch of the Tiger doesn’t really have any synergy with the left side of the tree and it would make more sense to have Hardened Soles swap places with it to synergize with pathing to Shadowboxing treads.

Feathers of a Hundred Flocks feels really weak compared to the other talents. It adds 1 or 2 yards to an ability that already has a good sized radius. I would prefer to see something else here, but if not I think a larger radius increase is needed.

Inner Peace feels really out of place on the talent tree and 10 energy is a very weak talent. Also, no matter how you feel about Hit combo, having to path through Inner Peace as the only option to get there feels really bad. I would like to see Inner Peace changed back to Hit Scheme and have it buff one of the windwalker abilities.

Rushing Jade Wind needs to be either removed or redesigned for windwalker. No matter how much you buff the damage it is going to feel clunky to press in our rotation.

As others have said I agree that Faeline Stomp should be replaced with Weapons of Order. It feels weird to have in the tree and I don’t ever see myself taking it unless it is dealing broken levels of damage.

4 Likes