Feedback: Monks

Hello! I agree with many of the things stated so far in this thread, but I wanted to focus in on some discontent with Fists of Fury.

I’ve heard that many dislike the feel of FoF, including myself, having to cancel the channel in several situations, and what its use case is in single target. It doesn’t feel the best to press in single target for damage, and many find the channel time to be to long and a little disruptive to the flow of the spec.

As a potential fix, I would suggest drastically increasing the tick rate and reducing the damage to more closely match the visual and audio effects of the skill. It only having 5 or 6 damage instances on a single target feels disconnected with what your character is actually doing. This also has the added effect of making mistimed channel cancels less punishing if we are going back to legion style touch of death.

As many dislike the fact that its a channel that feels like it lasts forever with low haste values, a more drastic rework to the ability could look like the monks 7-sided strike from Diablo 3. You could press it and storm, earth, fire clones could spawn and deliver a punch and disappear repeatedly. It could effectively work like killing spree for rogues but without the loss of control, or just like the current FoF but without the channel lock. Damage would need to be adjusted of course. But it would have big visual impact as a windwalker signature ability, similar to something like eye beam for demon hunters. (yes this is a selfish ask, but I love the flavor of 7 sided strike so much.)

Regardless, this is my interpretation of FoF, and even if its not in line with the design goals of the ability or its intended use, this it what it feels like it should do in my view and those of others, so hopefully that’s something that’s taken into consideration.

Excellent work so far!

2 Likes

Here are my initial notes regarding the talent trees for Windwalker Monk specifically. If it helps, I am a somewhat casual player, but one that tries to progress as much as I can with my limited time. I typically get AOTC and the M+ mount every season, but do not really go much further. So these comments may not consider some of the deeper nuance that I see from some top tier raiders and PvPers, but I also think I represent a very large portion of the player base in terms of my skill and experience.

Initial Notes:

  • There is confusion as to what version of ToD we are getting in Dragonflight based on the Talents. I think it would be good to go back to the Legion version, but either way it would be great to clarify this right away, even if it won’t show in the Alpha for a few weeks. Lots of theorycrafters are wasting a lot of time speculating about this.
  • Touch of Karma continues after years of consistent feedback to still act as a degenerate gameplay tool for damage output. As has been suggested by many players for at least three expansions now, the damage redirect should be removed from ToK. Ideally the Good Karma Talent from Live could replace it and the damage redirect piece could be incorporated into a PvP Talent (Bad Karma?), since that’s the one place where the output is good for gameplay.
  • Flying Serpent Kick needs to baseline, or at least be at a spot in the tree where you’ll always take it. Theory crafters are already talking about skipping it for better damage output and they’re all saying it feels bad to not have it. I would suggest considering putting it on the General Tree.
  • It’s unfortunate to see the Covenant Abilities become the capstones. These abilities are not core to the class and it’s a bummer that they’ve now become permanent core components of WW gameplay. I would rather see new abilities that are more interactive with the Windwalker rotation. Things that affect or change SEF for example.
  • Button Bloat continues to be a major problem for Windwalker.

General Tree

I’ve seen a lot of feedback about the pathing of the tree so I don’t need to repeat much of that, but would just add my voice to the many saying that putting a charge of Roll behind Soothing Mist and Fort Brew behind Paralysis is not ideal.

Overall my biggest note here is that I’m disappointed to see the statues at the bottom of the tree (assuming the middle one will be a Xuen statue). It’s not really a choice for any of the three specs except is very nuanced situations. It just means MW takes Serpent, WW takes Xuen and BM takes Ox. It’s just not fun to have capstone abilities that are predetermined in terms of best choice out of the gate. Furthermore, a lot of people (including myself) do not enjoy the statues and Talent out of them currently on Live (for the other specs). In this tree, we can technically still opt out of them, but only if we choose to take no capstones, which is not a good design IMO.

I really like that there is a path to make Vivify instant cast. It might end up being OP, but cast times always feels weird on WW.

While I think it’s cool that Diffuse Magic and Dampen Harm can both be taken, it does add to the Button Bloat problem, and is probably a bit OP. I would make these a choice node. I would also consider removing Expel Harm now that we have instant Vivify for healing. It’s just another button the rotation doesn’t need, but we’re all going to feel compelled to take.

Windwalker Tree

I discussed it above but my main concern with this Tree has to do with the bottom third. But first, the good:

  • Love that SotW is back! Feels so great
  • Love that there are so many talents that interact with ToD. Would like to see this design philosophy applied to the rest of the kit more.
  • Love that a lot of the Talents below Xuen are things that interact with Xuen.

As for what I would change:

  • As mentioned above, FSK needs to be baseline.
  • Would be nice to have SotW more central in the tree as it’s going to be a great talent for virtually any build.
  • Rushing Jade Wind should be removed. It’s never taken and even if it was, we have enough buttons to press in AoE situations already.

My biggest note for the Windwalker Tree is how I would change the bottom third of the Tree. Right now it looks like the middle of the tree has some cool stuff that interacts from Xuen from over the years, but the left and right sides just threw in a couple Covenant Abilities and other abilities that don’t necessarily make sense. Aside from the mystery talent under construction, there isn’t really anything new at all down here. It’s all just a rehash.

Furthermore, the whole capstone philosophy that I see in trees warlock trees for example just isn’t here. I would suggest reworking the entire capstone section of the Tree to have three or four big capstone abilities, and then talents below them (or near them) that interact and change those abilities. Again, warlock is a great example of this done right.

Specifically, I would suggest having the following three abilities as the choices right underneath the 20 point gate: SEF, Invoke Xuen, and Serenity. I know all three of these current sit in the mid-range of the tree, but they should all be lower down, and then have further talents that improve them. Plus giving monks both SEF and Serenity together is the kind of epicness we’re seeing in virtually all other classes so far, and putting them as choices at the bottom that are opposite of each other would mean you could only get both at a great cost. SEF could have all kinds of things from perhaps a fourth clone to a longer uptime, to the one thing that should absolutely be on this tree: a talent that turns SEF into it’s older iteration from MoP and WoD. Serenity would see way more use when not pitted against SEF, and could see all kinds of interesting manipulations that encourage it as the better single target choice over SEF. Xuen is already sitting pretty decently in the middle. Just need to move the talent down one row.

Anyways, those are my main thoughts so far. Windwalker is my favourite spec in the game but I have not mained it since Legion. The key reason for this is it always seems like it doesn’t get the attention it needs. After maining Warlock for the past few years I can say that it’s not just perception. Warlocks get lots of attention, even in this early point in the Alpha. It feels good to play. I feel like the devs really care about the class. It’s unfortunate that Windwalker’s tree was released so half-baked because it just perpetuates the stigma. The next couple weeks are an opportunity to show things are different with some big changes and close communication with the Windwalker community. I hope it happens! Would love to return to the class!

4 Likes

I cant seem to get Tiger’s lust to work on any spec, despite being specced into it, respeccing into it, dragging it on / off bar, etc…

Just had a thought… i dont know if these kinds of suggestions are what devs are looking for… but as a brewmaster main i really like the interaction of ToD with Stagger. its really satisfying when you are in a big pull in a key - stagger is really high and ToD comes off cd, mob is vulnerable to it… and bam… you are nice and safe again.

Could something be done with that on Mistweaver? Why not add a mana return to it, since that seems to be a MW pain point? its on a decent cd and only usable on mobs at low health so the return wouldnt be huge, and it would give mw an added element of skilled play rewarding usable returns.

just a thought…

Great Changes! Really makes fistweaving feel much more fluid and less let me randomly channel this button for 3 seconds in the middle of dps

3 Likes

In today’s Alpha update:

  • Class Talents
    • New Talent: Summon White Tiger Statue – Summons a White Tiger Statue at the target location for 30 seconds, pulsing damage to all enemies every 2 seconds for 30 seconds.
      • Developer note: This medium-duration area of effect cooldown is designed to bring the pain to enemies who dare doubt the wrath of the White Tiger.
    • Roll Rank 2 now correctly communicates that it grants an extra charge.
    • Windwalking tooltip now correctly displays speed increase instead of size change.
    • Generous Pour, Close to Heart, and Save Them All talents are now implemented.
  • Mistweaver
    • Unison – Soothing Mist heals a second injured ally within 15 yards for 100% of the amount healed (was 50%).
    • Awakened Faeline, Misty Peaks, Rapid Diffusion, Invoke Yu’lon’s Enveloping Mist mana reduction, and Ancient Concordance are now implemented.
    • Zen Reverberation triggers a second Zen Pulse at 50% effectiveness (was 30%).
    • Accumulating Mist increases Zen Pulse’s damage and healing by 15% per stack (was 10%).
    • Invoker’s Delight now scales its duration down to 8 seconds when talented into Gift of the Celestials.
    • Jade Bond’s Gust of Mist buff increased to 25% (was 12%).
    • Known Issue: Ancient Concordance’s tooltip displays the incorrect target count for Blackout Kick’s cleave. The intended functionality of this is to hit 2 targets with 1 point and 3 targets with 2 points.
7 Likes

Since we got a small patch today for Mist, here are some comments on the Mistweaver Tree, from a casting monk pov.

Overall, I am happy with the mistweaver tree. If it stayed like this, ill be ok. I like it as a Mistweaver and if I want to go Fistweaver, I like my options too!

First thing first: Soothing Mist - DPS and Tank won’t use it, unless in weird situation where they Also get the Jade Serpent Statue and just make it cast on themself… But still probably not. As I already said in another post, maybe switch Soothing Mist with Renewing Mist. Renewing is still not that strong on its own but more chance that they use it. Another option… probably way too strong: Life Cocoon. Now that is something that every spec could use but would probably be too strong.

Also: Maybe more mana options? I know this is already better than before since we can have 2x options at once to help with our mana but, casting monk just chug mana like crazy.

Tier 1 zone

  • I’m fine with everything there. Thanks for the Restoral option… last time doing some Fated raid boss, it was annoying to have my big CD also dispelling.

Tier 2 zone

  • Calming Coalescence: Even me, that really enjoy using soothing mist a lot, don’t think I would take that skill. Sure, it can make a big Cocoon but, 50x stacks feels a lot. Maybe make something that very slowly lower the CD of Cocoon with Soothing? Also, switch the node’s emplacement with Rapid Diffusion.
  • Zen Pulse: I like it, we will need some dmg meter to really check it but thanks for that spell.
  • Song of Chi-Ji: Hum, it could go in the monk tree… I don’t know, I never used it at all in all those years lol.
  • Rapid Diffusion: As I said, and a lot of other people: Trade spot with Calming Coalescence to keep the more melee focused side on the left. Or at least move it towards the left.

Tier 3 zone

  • I like the small change to fistweaving with Faeline Stomp.
  • Tea of Plenty: Meh, don’t think it should be a placed at the end. Maybe trade spot with Ancient Teachings of the Monastery? But even then, this talent need more kick to it.
  • Unison: I would make it do the same for the Jade Serpent Statue… might be too strong with it, but some soothing mist node should affect the statue also.
  • Resplendent Mist: Weird spot, I think. Could trade spot with Bonedust brew.
  • Bonedust brew: I use this on retail and I wouldn’t pick it again most likely. On retail, the free proc rate is super high, enough to see it proc twice in a row. But also, when it does, we can get a massive intel bonus with the right soulbind. With a lower proc rate and no big intel boost… Not sure about this one. But would switch spot with Resplendent Mist.

Overall, cheers for our tree!

2 Likes

I had an idea of a talent you can add to faeline stomp. From playing torgast it was nice to have the anima power that let it have 4 charges. That would be a nice choice option with Last Emperor’s Capacitators.

I also think it would be able to cast while using fists of fury. I think it would be cool if it still activated your mastery somehow.

That or your kick spells having a chance to send out a faeline stomp would also be cool.

Hey there! My name is limbo/Thebetterfox and I’m so happy to have the privilege to share some insight on the initial mistweaver tree. This will mostly be covering my thoughts from an high end M+ perspective. When it comes to a lot of the intial design, I feel like a majority of the spec tree is on the right path, however some work needs to be done on specific nodes.

Bonedust Brew:
Before venthyr took over in 9.1 a majority of the people playing necrolord was specifically due to how good certain traits were in emeni’s tree, and without those bonedust in general feels lackluster and not worth the point in a majority of scenarios, especially in m+. It doesn’t help that the node after being the legendary and the conduit lack the punch and fun you would expect from a capstone such as invokers or rising mist. Instead of this right side portion of the tree being revolved around bonedust brew so heavily, I suggest a swap of covenant abilities here.

Weapons of Order:
This is a bit of a stretch but personally I believe Weapons and its legendary work a lot better in the overal mistweaver tree when compared to bonedust. Having weapons of order in place of bonedust along with its legendary call to arms would not only synergize more with this side of the tree(resplendent mist and tear or morning both being prominent combos for call to arms), but it would also allow for one of the most interesting playstyles from 9.2 to be preserved. I loved playing what some of us called “kyji” throughout season 3 and being able to time 28s, and I would be really bummed to see it lost within the shadowlands forever.

Middle Section
The rest of the right side is perfectly great, its just that one hiccup. Same goes for the middle path, I absolutely love all the celestial and thunder focus tea nodes that help amplify their playstyle to 11. There a few nodes such as healing elixir and peaceful mending that feel out of place but they’re easily avoidable so there’s no problem. And now on the left side.

Faeline Stomp:
While I love the idea of faeline stomp, and I think the several buffs given make the mana cost worthwhile finally, I don’t fully know if having it proc ancient teachings of the monastery will allow for the most healthy playstyle in m+ unless dungeons are more damage heavy/ mana hungry and force us away. Overall I love the actual ideas in place and I love the push for our melee centered playstyle, and I hope these ideas stay true throughout testing.

Overall Thoughts:
The mistweaver tree overall is a resounding success in my books, and I love the push for the playstyles that’s been on several wishlists for a long time, however some things still need touch ups such as the right side of the tree(please blizzard let me have kyji back I dont know what I will do without it). Thank you from the bottom of my heart as a little old mistweaver main

24 Likes

It’s my strong belief that Invoke Niuzao, the Black Ox is a poorly designed and poorly implemented ability that results in Brewmaster threat being reliably underbudget in every scenario as well as strongly rewarding degenerate gameplay by sitting or turning your back to allow for larger purifying brews for damage that does not count toward your own threat.

When designing an ability like this in a vacuum I’m sure it is a cool and flavorful button and perhaps even the /sit meta can be forgiven as it’s not the first time a class (or even Brewmaster) has gained damage from taking more damage. Where the issue lies is when it comes time to balance the spec and you have to factor in this angry stompy boi doing 20%+ of your damage, even more on pull, and baking that into damage calculations without considering threat. Niuzao having their own threat table is also counterproductive to the defensive value of that button since if it does pull threat (not just possible but proven to happen on hard hitting pulls) it will quickly die and stop absorbing the stagger its meant to share along with a massively nerfing your damage potential.

The simplest solution would be to for Niuzao to just permanently redirect threat towards its user and that would at least be good enough for general tank balance purposes in raid. Ultimately I think that a full redesign would be beneficial in the long run since other tanks aren’t so wholly reliant on taking copious amount of damage to perform at an acceptable level and Brew shouldn’t be the exception.

I am otherwise very excited about the direction of Brewmaster in Dragonflight. I am a huge proponent of emphasizing brews, especially in M+, and I think the class will feel more complete than any time in recent history. I always worry about the health pool being too small to tank magic damage that other tanks would shrug off but access to multiple CDs that were mutually exclusive or unavailable to Brew will definitely help a lot. I hope to see more of your great work as the Alpha progresses.

8 Likes

Hello!
My initial reaction to the new Monk Talent Tree is positive. I love that we have many different defensive and fistweaving options. Here are some thoughts:

  • The two talents with Roll at the top and Chi torpedo at the bottom seems a bit awkward. I know that the roll talent is giving us an extra charge of Roll, but having them in two completely different parts of the tree is a bit weird
  • Having to spec into Essence Font in order to get Life Cocoon seems great for PvE, but for PvP there are many times where Mistweavers don’t even use Essence Font to heal. It might be better to swap the two talents, just so PvPers don’t have to waste 1 point in order to get Life Cocoon.
  • Tiger’s Lust. Love this talent, but is there any way to increase the range from 20 yards? Even if it’s 30 yards, using this in PvP really puts us out of position when it is used.

Those are my thoughts about the current talents, but I still believe there are crucial parts of Mistweaver that are still missing, here are some examples:

  • Cancel Roll/Chi Torpedo. This was in the game for a very long time and it allowed Monks to cancel their Roll/Chi Torpedo at any moment. It was removed in Shadowlands and Monks are now forced to awkwardly jump and roll if they need to travel a short distance. With the addition of Kick/Slow being added to Mistweaver and how import mobility is for them, I think cancel roll should be reintroduced to the game. A good PvE example of this is the Painsmith fight. If I wanted to roll to the gap in order to avoid the spikes, I would have to jump and hope latency doesn’t affect the distance. If it does, then I would fall into the lava or get hit by spikes. If cancel roll was in the game, I wouldn’t have to worry about this and I could dodge the mechanic.
  • Crackling Jade Lightning. This spell has so much potential, with many options to help make it viable in PvP. For example, allowing us to use it while moving. An even cooler option is while it is channeling, we can use our Physical spells on the target we are channeling on. Or, for every successful channel of CJL, we gain a stack that increases its damage until we are finally interrrupted. This will allow Mistweavers to do damage from ranged and not risk getting swapped to or getting put into crowd control.
  • Soothing Mist while Moving. This is the main change I believe Mistweaver needs. We are suppose to be the most mobile healer in the game, but have to stand still every time we heal someone. Being able to move while channeling Soothing Mist would help relieve many of the issues we are running into now (avoiding CC, getting swapped to)
  • Mystic Touch. Mistweaver is a healing turret and can heal one target easily for the duration of an arena match. It’s because of this, that many of the top team compositions that Mistweaver queues are double caster (mage/lock, ele/affliction) and sometimes melee/caster (dh/boomy, warrior/ele). This allows us to heal one target, rather than having to heal two. Because of this playstyle change, Mystical Touch rarely gets value when playing with the double casters. Is there a chance that there could be a new talent for Mystic Touch? Similar to the Revival talent. One talent increases Physical damage, and the other increases Magical damage. This way, Mystic Touch gets value no matter what comp we are queueing into.
12 Likes

I think the white tiger statue needs to be seriously buffed to make it worth a 2min CD and it should really be given way more health. Currently in PvP its way easier to kill than totems and that makes it pretty useless for something that should be a cooldown for damage

5 Likes

Basic Monk Talent Tree:

Fast Feet, Fatal Touch, Tiger Leg Sweep, Vivify, and Ferocity of Zuen has a 2 point option , problem is it should be 1 point instead of two as the second point has absolutely no upgrade, it shows the same exact thing as the first point gives, no difference, this needs to be changed to one point. Detox and Expel Harm are already base line and should not be in the talent tree as it offers the same exact thing as the base line ones. From what I’m seeing in the Basic monk talent tree is there are a lot of 2 point options for absolutely no upgrade and/or improvement to that particular talent, this feels very wasteful of points and should be changed to 1 point. The overall design of the Base Monk talent tree is mostly wrong and feels rushed and not well thought out.

Windwalker Talent Tree:

Touch of the Tiger, Flashing Fists, Crane Vortex, and Rising Star has a 2 point option but offers no upgrade, this needs to be changed to 1 point. This tree feels wrong in that some of the 2 point requirement to get to the next level of talents offers no upgrade and is therefore wasted points for no upgrades. Like the Basic Monk Tree, it feels rushed and not well thought out. All the non upgrade 2 point talents needs to be changed to 1 point.

Mistweaver Talent Tree:

Revival/Restoral: Not sure what to think about this one as they offer the same exact thing, I’m thinking Revival should be revive back to life but it just does the same healing/remove stuff that restoral does. Until there is clarification on this one, will just bypass all together. Where is the Jade Statue, I am very not happy about not having it. While some players might no use it, I do, especially when questing and such. Jade Statue, for me, is the difference between life and death when taking extremely heavy damage. Depending on how my monk plays, could also be a no go and sit this character on the sidelines like other classes that I’ve decided to put on the sidelines through Dragonblight because they are not in a good place.
Never mind about the Jade Statue, found it where it doesn’t belong, its on the basic monk talent tree instead of the “healer” side, go figure, one would think that the statues thats on the basic talent tree should be placed on the prospective spec side. Doesn’t make any sense to put them where they are instead of where they should be. Have no access to it because of all the wasted points, have to place points to get to it and don’t have enough. If it is to stay in the basic talent tree then it needs to be moved up and not at the very bottom and/or linked to something useless.

Overall, the monk talent trees are not in a very good place and cost talent points on useless talents to try to get to decent ones, but run out before being able to get to them. Very rushed and half hazard talent trees.

The way I view it is I don't have to worry about Revival dispelling some magic debuff in raid since we can’t depend on their blacklist 100% of the time. Not to mention the while stunned makes me think its a big pvp talent

4 Likes

General tree feedback

Soothing Mist being on top doesn’t make sense, mainly because the extra Roll charge depends on it.

Heavy Air is by far the most useless skill out of all the talent trees. I think in her place should come the Transcendence.

Where Transcendence is now puts the Ring of Peace, and where the Ring of Peace is, an upgrade causing the ring to create a clearing area removing any spells/debuffs/puddles from the area, as well as debuffs and threat. Yes, removing threat would be somewhat of a debuff, but then we would have a disadvantage in using the ring that would counterbalance the benefits.

Close to Heart, Windwalking and Generous Pour shouldn’t be auras, they should be active buffs.

Feedback on Windwalker

In my opinion, the Windwalker talent tree is problematic. This is due to the fact that if what was expected was a separation of talents between AOE / Mixed / Single Target, however there are many talents that give you AOE skills, directly buff some AOE skills or turn single target skills into AOE (26 from what I could count) and few focusing on a single target (only 10 of them, where 3 are buffs for ToD). This seems unbalanced, and the fact that we’ll be relying on skills from the main talent tree to perform on single target (Fast Feet, ToD, Fatal Touch, Resonant Fists) just won’t unbalance the class in single-target fights because the options in the main tree talents are “easy” to choose in this scenario.

The three monk statues, regardless of which, should have much larger health pools in all scenarios, and the Jade Serpent and White Tiger statues should not pose a threat or be affected by AOE.

Spiritual Focus not beign dependent on the talent that it’s benefits makes no sense.

The entire tree region above Xuen should change too: theres some buffs to FoF that’s seems to not fit there, where you’re obliged to learn to call Xuen and improve it to learn Xuen’s Battlegear, Transfer of Power and Keerer’s Skyreach (one of the rare sinle-target focused talents).

But of all the feedback we gave and agreed on, the most important one, in my opinion, was ignored by Blizzard: the bottom-right of the tree, the removal of Night Fae talents in exchange for the same Kyrian talents that the Brewmaster has. Druids received Convoke in all specs because it’s the best pact skill (some would say indispensable), now why is it different with Monks? What it seems is that when choosing these talents, Blizzard put names inside a bag and drew lots, not that it chose the ones that would bring the best performance.

Feedback on Mistweaver

The changes to the talent tree focusing more on Night Fae skill usage is a big mistake and I’ll tell you why: PEOPLE MOVE. The chance of you releasing the stomp and the group having to get off it due to some mechanic is always great (from my point of view the only safe place to use it would be in Grimrail Depot). A Fistweaver’s playstyle is healing by moving, so what we need are abilities that go along with that move and Faerline Stomp is definitely not one of them. Kyrian or Venthyr skills would fit much better in this regard.

Feedback on Brewmaster

I don’t have much to say about the Brewmaster. Having the Exploding Keg back has been a dream since the beginning of the BFA and the kit in general is no different from what we’ve experienced before.

The nerf on the Ox Spheres was not something expected, and this will directly affect the monk’s sustainability since we have absolutely nothing else besides Zen Meditation and the base tree skill Diffuse Magic that helps us in mitigating magic damage.

3 Likes

Gonna go ahead and reafrim all the things ive said again about soothing mist being boring and pointless to spec into while still having insane energy cost on vivify while also being instant with multiple pointless 2 cost abilities for unbaked abilities being real unfun. Retail feels extensively smoother playing with all abilities intact which should not really feel better than a potentially new expansion with brand new talent trees

I think it seriously is a failure of design to unbake abilities just for the sake of trying to extended a talent tree and make us spend points for a thing we will never use two points later down the tree. Unbaking abilities should never be something that is said of class design.

I understabd this is alpha and things will change im basically just worried they will not be changed enough to make the class design behind monk trees feeling complete.

9 Likes

Hello weavers of mist.

We’d like to address few topics that have come up regarding the new Mistweaver Talent tree.

Tree Layout

In the Mistweaver tree, our intent is for players to make compelling decisions between powerful abilities, particularly with their final points, in order to decide on their build. We want players to feel engaged with pathing throughout this tree and have reasons to explore a variety of options regardless of their build type.

This may result in some ability placement feeling counterintuitive. The question “this spell has great synergy with this other spell, so why are they not placed next to each other?” can be answered: We want to maintain pathing tension, so that players feel engaged throughout the talent selection, as well as avoid certain talent combinations for balance purposes.

Rotational Clutter

Several pieces of the Monk and Mistweaver tree are adding options for active buttons on a short cooldown. Too many relatively low impact abilities on a short cooldown can lead to gameplay feeling rushed and overwhelming.

Zen Pulse has been the main offender in our eyes. In future builds, we’re looking at increasing the cooldown and effect of Zen Pulse to make it feel more impactful while reducing rotational clutter.

We will be keeping an eye on this problem moving forward with spells such as Refreshing Jade Wind and Faeline Stomp.

Mistweaving and Fistweaving

Our intent is for both builds to feel as though they have options and reasons to explore throughout the tree. The trick will be to find pathing that satisfies both builds without removing options or build diversity.

We were overall pleased with the first iteration of this tree but are still looking to make improvements. Players can expect a few nodes that may have felt like blockers to swap positions and additional connections to facilitate this in future builds.

Renewing Mist Synergies

Our intent is for spreading Renewing Mist to feel rewarding and powerful. We’re happy so far with how Misty Peaks, Rapid Diffusion, and the return of Dancing Mist have been received and we’re glad to see many players feeling much the same way. Our goal is to tune around these effects remaining engaging and synergistic.

Essence Font

The placement of some abilities, namely Essence Font, at the top of the tree has come off as alarming for some players. Since Essence Font is not an ability that sees universal use, why is it required to move past the first gate?

The intent for this placement is to sacrifice a small amount of choice early in the tree to maximize choice later in the tree. There are many different modifiers later in the tree that rely on Essence Font to function, and the layout of the tree overall would be heavily impacted if these needed to be packed into a small subsection.

A good example of the opposite of this placement is Life Cocoon-related talents in this tree. While players can expect the Life Cocoon talents to feel more optional with increased pathing being added in future builds, the overall placement of these nodes is reliant on stemming from Life Cocoon, due to it not being required to progress past the first gate.

Thank you all for your continued feedback!

20 Likes

When tuning is there any aim to make sure Essence Font stays relevant in a raiding situation? As it currently stands you can get to a scary amount of Renewing Mists very quickly.

Thank you for the communication :smiley:
Everything you said makes a lot of sense and is wonderful to hear

6 Likes

There was some very interesting Mistweaver Monk Artifact Weapon traits that’s could be improved and used on the skill tree.

The way that the actual MW skill tree is going are focusing too much on Soothing Mists and Essence Font.

As for Fistweaving, the way monks fistweave at WOD was the coolest way, the one that’s not that HOT-dependant nor HOT-buffer machine, but focused on Chi generation to burst healing with specific skills that should be added to the skill tree itself (Chi Explosion, for example).

With the actual dual-tree building Blizzard could focus on making monk healers focused on mid-term AOE healing sustain as Mistweaver or Fistweaver for Raid content or focused on single target / cleave healing for groups content.

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I love that we appear to have options for different builds.

I would like to see Soothing Mist useable while moving, either as part of the base spell or as a talent in the MW tree.

Personally I’m not a fan of the current version of Jade Serpent Statue and that it will be going forward into Dragonflight. The 8 sec channel duration requires a lot of micromanaging, which is not fun and kind of clunky.

If another class is given a battle res, consider monk (our overall group utility is kind of lacking). Suggestion: Spiritfire Brew, splash an ally with an invigorating brew returning them to consciousness and jump starting their HP/Mana.

Have more testing to do.

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