Feedback: Monks

In this thread, please respond with your feedback on the updated Monk class, once you’ve had a chance to test it out in the Dragonflight Alpha.

Thank you!

12 Likes

We now have a first look at the Monk talent trees.

Our goal with the class tree is to allow a player to construct different visions of their character and play with the hybrid nature and cheerful mobility that exemplifies a Monk.

For Brewmaster, our primary goal was to allow players the flexibility to lean into different flavors – to emphasize a brew-heavy playstyle, or go the way of the wily martial arts master – while also providing situationally-interesting decisions for survivability.

For Mistweaver, we want to offer support for both the caster and melee playstyles while maintaining a variety of choices for both builds. We also wanted to take a look at Mistweaver’s multi-target damage profile through returning and new talents such as Zen Pulse and Ancient Concordance.

For Windwalkers, we want to allow players the flexibility to focus on different styles of damage dealing, as well as offering opportunities to customize their ability loadout in ways that bring back old friends or lean into focus on specific abilities.

We’re excited for Monks to be joining the Dragonflight Alpha and we look forward to hearing your feedback!

  • Known Issues
    • There are several talents that are not fully implemented yet. These are tagged with NYI (Not Yet Implemented) in their Talent name.
    • The Talent Frame background for Mistweaver is incorrectly using Windwalker art. This will be corrected in a later build.
    • Roll is intended to be baseline. The talent in the upper left, connected to Soothing Mists, is a second charge of the ability.
    • We’re working on a bug where, if you learn a talent loadout with some of the NYI talents, you won’t be able to spec out of them.
13 Likes

First impressions:

  • Roll shows up as an base class skill. When I learn the talents, if I’ve not selected Roll it just disappears from spellbook and turn to be “learneable from my class trainer”
  • As I see Soothing Mist and Roll myst be swapped on the tree, as Healer and DPS class rely on it
  • I can learn the talent Roll Out without having Roll itself.
  • Flashing Fists isn’t appearing as passive effect
5 Likes

̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶r̶o̶l̶l̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶i̶s̶t̶w̶e̶a̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶s̶i̶d̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶l̶a̶s̶s̶ ̶t̶r̶e̶e̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶p̶a̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶r̶o̶l̶l̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶b̶i̶l̶i̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶p̶p̶o̶s̶i̶t̶e̶ ̶s̶i̶d̶e̶?̶ ̶T̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶’̶t̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶ ̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶I̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶c̶e̶ ̶b̶r̶e̶w̶/̶w̶w̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶o̶o̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶i̶s̶t̶?̶
:slight_smile:


Added to Known Issues:

  • Roll is intended to be baseline. The talent in the upper left, connected to Soothing Mists, is a second charge of the ability.
21 Likes

From what I’ve seen so far, the Brewmaster and Mistweaver talent trees are good, but there are talents that appear in parts of the tree that become useless depending on the build, for example: on Mistweaver that has a talent ( right after Enveloping Breath ) where you must choose a bonus to to Yul’'on when there is a possibility that the monk may not even have the celestial for having chosen Chi-Ji.

And Soothing Mist shouldn’t be on the top of the “generic” tree, as I said before.

— Edit

Ended the WW analisys and as I can see so far it will be a huge buff on WW DPS capabilityes. There’s one misdisplaced tank talent on the tree ( Hit Scheme, already reported ingame ) and the placement of the Last Emperor’s capacitator seems to not fit.

PS.: thanks for putting Spear Hand Strike as baseline, opening the chance to MW to have it.

4 Likes

This isn’t correct. The talents you are talking about, Gift of the Celestials and Jade Bond, change their tooltip based on which celestial you have picked. You have to hit apply talents for the tooltip to change. There is no error.

3 Likes

Negative: I’ve chosen Chi-Ji and it shows Youl’on

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It cold be an error on the tooltip itself.

Did you press apply talents and let the talents swap? It takes 5 seconds to swap talents. (they added a cast time)

I just did this and don’t get your error. But then again. Error should be F6ed

1 Like

Yes, after applying the talents the tooltip is updated.

Still a bug.

The second charge being locked behind a (typically) mistweaver spell for windwalkers and brewmaster seems a little strange even.

Mostly a WW player - first impressions are reaaaallly good - really like that some of the old favorites from legion have come back (Strike of the Windlord!!! AHHHHH!!! :smiley: ) - even if a lot of it isn’t currently working (most of the Touch Of Death ones - most of the Fists Of Fury ones - Jade Ignition) Super hopeful and excited - did a few dungeons on alpha and had a blast. Super exciting! Some bugs I encountered (and reported in game as well!)

There is currently zero cool down on Fortifying Brew.
Jade Ignition doesn’t seem to work at all.
Fatal Touch doesn’t work at all.
Power Strikes doesn’t work.
Fatal Flying Guillotine doesn’t work.
Thunderfist did seem to work either.

Everything mentioned I have reported in game.

Aside from stuff just being implemented and not working I’m super excited and hopeful for the Windwalker tree. A ton of really cool concepts and paths and potential unique builds we can have for this.

Excited to see what the middle monk capstone is (hopefully a dps since left is a heal right is a tank…) and what the ability above Keefer’s Skyreach will be.

Kudos to the dev(s) on it - much appreciated! Thank you!

4 Likes

Monk baseline tree seems very weirdly structured.

Provoke should be baseline along with the interrupt so people can actually have the talents they need to play and do basic things. I feel like the speed increase is a class flavor at this point and should be baked in.

Elusive mists and Roll out should be switched so they are closer to things they actually change/enhance. Seems like alot of bloat on the trees

still testing brewmaster but the tree seems really solid

15 Likes

I think Gale Burst and the SEF / Serenity node should be swapped. as is, it places the major dps cooldown behind what seems to be an optional talented rework of TOD’s functionality. essentially forcing the legion TOD version on everyone.

3 Likes

Monk is showing provoke in my baseline abilities, like roll, so I think it’s something to do with the movement speed alone, not provoke itself in the talent tree. The talent may just need to be renamed/show different values for the enhancement to the base ability.

The thing with roll itself is that I’m getting 2 charges baseline, where the talent also says 2 charges.

Added to Known Issues:

  • We’re working on a bug where, if you learn a talent loadout with some of the NYI talents, you won’t be able to spec out of them.
2 Likes

Coming from a 9 year ww vet in both high end pve and pvp.
There are concerns/suggestions and bugs to address so far after some testing;

First talents that do not function or not working as intended, then I will give my opinions on the tree;

  • Hidden master’s forbidden touch talent does not trigger its second use.

  • Fatal touch talent is not reducing the cooldown on touch of death.

  • Last emperor’s capacitor talent is not showing in spell book on learning and is not giving you stacks after using chi.

  • Various talent’s such as Hit Scheme, Feathers of a Hundred Flocks, Mark of the crane, Flashing Fists, Empowered Tiger Lightning, Rising Star, Fatal Flying Guillotine show up as active ability’s rather than passive effects.

  • Shadowboxing treads is not making blackout kick hit multiple targets

  • Hit scheme talent effect is functioning as an active ability(it is intended as passive) but will buff Keg smash (brewmaster ability)

  • Thunderfist talent is not giving any stacks on hits.

  • Galeburst talent does not function and could not function with the current iteration of touch of death (guessing its placeholder)

  • Fury of xuen talent’s Xuen proc is not applying Empowered Tiger Lightning

  • Drinking horn cover talent is not increasing the duration of your cooldown

  • Keefer’s skyreach talent is not making tiger palm a 10 yard range, is also not applying the crit debuff to the target.

  • Fortifying brew has no cooldown when using the cooldown reduction talent

  • glory of the dawn talent is currently doing 2% of the damage of a rising sun kick

  • flashing fists talent is not increasing the damage of fists of fury.

As far as the WW talent tree goes there are many concerns here.

Now for feedback;

Right now it feels like there are too many talent’s that function the exact same way but are too good making the tree very linear and all over the place as far as picking nodes go, and core functions of the spec that have become talents like flying serpent kick, touch of karma, and mark of the crane. the problem with this part is that you can completely skip these which WILL become a optimal strategy in a lot of situations which can also cause problems.

You WILL see pugs without flying serpent kick and touch of karma dying to mechanics trying to get more damage out of the tree.
You WILL see top end raiding trying to minmax and skip these. You WILL see pvper’s trying to matchup fish in arena and take more damage rather than cooldowns where they know they will not be targeted.
In all of these potential scenarios, it is a toxic and unfun player experience for the monk, and the players being affected by the monks choices which is why I think both Touch of Karma and Flying Serpent Kick should go baseline.

In any scenario where there are multiple targets, you will want mark of the crane it is a must take talent in all aoe scenarios but the tree allows the option to skip it which is why I think this talent should go baseline.

The left side of the tree which is mostly comprised of aoe talents is really promoting the use of weaving blackout kicks and mainly using spinning crane kick and fists of fury as your main damage source like current retail. However going down this tree feels very awkward for a few different reasons;

  1. In order to get to your best talents at the bottom (Calculated strikes, Bonedust brew) you need to take talents that do not benefit you in aoe. You also need to take talents on the right side of the tree that have your best aoe talents (open palm strikes, strike of the wind lord)

  2. With the amount of damage you’re gaining from Blackout kick, spinning crane kick by keeping up marks of the crane and its synergy with Bonedust brew, and Fists of fury there’s no incentive for you to ever want to press rushing jade wind since 2 casts of it do less than a buffed up spinning crane kick (and its soft target capped), and it has no synergy with our rotation.

My suggestion for these problems on the left side is to as I said earlier, make mark of the crane a baseline passive. Another really good change that will allow you more freedom of choice in the tree is to make the Dance of Chiji talent node connect with Crane vortex, so that you CAN skip rushing jade wind and hidden master’s forbidden touch if you find yourself not needing them which there are a lot of scenarios where you will go down this tree and both of those talents will end up becoming unimpactful choices for you essentially wasting your talent point. (PvP specifically, some raid fights, some mythic plus dungeons).

The right side of the tree has our strongest talents and is laid out pretty well to allow some freedom but some of the talents in this tree don’t make sense as it is mainly a single target orientated side.

Unlike the left side where most of the talents are directly benefiting you in aoe and the bottom of the tree have your best aoe talents, the right side bottom actually just has the least impactful bottom row for single target damage.

Faeline stomp which was generally seen as a good cleaving tool and was mainly powerful due to the soulbinds in shadowlands has come back, but why on the single target tree? Why not Weapons of Order which was our best single target covenant for most of the expansion?
It was also the most fun cooldown to play with and added a lot of variety to the spec when it came in shadowlands compared to the fire and forget Faeline Stomp which is also an aoe orientated ability, so why is it on the single target tree?

That ontop of Jade Emperor’s capacitor being really weak while also being counter intuitive to the whole monk rotation which also already has a lot of buffs to track there really is 0 incentive to take any of the talents at the bottom of the right side of the tree the way those talents are currently designed.

My suggestion would be to replace Faeline with Weapons of Order or to change how faeline works in someway, and to also swap Jade emperors capacitor with Keefer’s skyreach. This will give incentive to go further down this side of the tree having powerful single target talents in it giving the row identity.

The middle row is pretty good honestly but I think all of the xuen talent’s should just be merged into one as like I said before there are too many good talents in your tree to want to take menial talent’s that provide small buffs situationally like Xuen’s bond. All 3 talents, Xuen’s bond, Fury of xuen and empowered tiger lightning should feel just baseline but we have to talent into them just to buff up xuen instead of buffing our own character which feels extremely bad to spend points on.

Edit: I forgot to make my point as to there are too many talent’s that are buffing touch of death which is a skippable base tree talent and the main function and idea of the ability is to be a 15%- execute on a long cooldown. The ability itself is already very niche and not considered much in your baseline rotation on standard enemies so taking a bunch of talents to amplify it doesn’t feel very good compared to taking talents that amplify your abilities that you are using very often.

27 Likes

I haven’t checked alpha, but I believe Provoke IS baseline, and the talent give the movespeed increase.

1 Like

agreed provoke either should be baseline or moved up the tree near the top having it near the end of the tree on the left side feels odd

Hello. I’m mostly making some suggestions for the Mistweaver tree.

There are two talents currently melee focused that are on the right side of the tree that don’t exactly fit in with their surrounding talents. Mostly referring to Rapid Diffusion for this, as it’d make a lot more sense for this talent to be on the left side of things along with the other clear melee focused things.

Rising Mist being a choice talent on the right side is also a bit of a pain because then I’d have to talent into BDB as well as the talent node for Gusts. Fistweavers don’t normally utilize Mastery, we go for haste/crit/verse, so mastery is actually a bit of a weak stat for the playstyle. I honestly believe that Restorative Proliferation and Rising Mist swapping places would be more cohesive.

Teachings of the Monastery is a talent that honestly adds a lot of clunkiness to the spec; this is especially true when you already allow BoK to strike three times with the new Faeline Stomp passive. It could instead be revitalized or otherwise replaced; just I can’t stress enough how needing to TP three times before using another spell is not fun.

My last suggestion is tied to Ancient Teachings of the Monastery. Essence Font is a great healing spell that for fistweaving is honestly just pressed and cancelled just to activate the Eminence buff. I just think it’d be a lot more fluid if you didn’t need to waste a healing GCD just to start healing with your damage abilities.

9 Likes

Your post is well thought out and makes a lot of sense - I do agree that some things are placed weird - but I’m chalking it up to early stuff and alpha and stuff will get “rearranged” or so I hope.

I do think that more things should be baseline - for a lot of classes - althought I haven’t checked so many class trees because I’m a huge monk player - dabbled a bit on warrior and rogue.

Either way this is the kind of feed back we need - I did a couple of dungeons and logged them as well and RSK hits way harder than anything else - Fist of Fury felt like a useless button to press because it was back to the “spend 3 chi do the least possible damage” and that’s with all the FoF bufs in the tree.

I will do way more testing - the week is still very young! super excited for what is to come though!