FEEDBACK: Monk Class Changes

Based on both BfA and SL feedback vs. what ended up going live, I’m not sure waiting that long to post the idea would give them enough time to consider it. Even early alpha feedback seems too late for a lot of things. It was only Spriests that really managed to get a major change out of their feedback.

I don’t think technically it would be that hard to swap an existing talent out for a slightly modified Sheilun since it already exists and isn’t something that would have to be created from scratch. Personally I think even though pre-patch is tomorrow, it’s not too late for mechanical tweaks before SL official release.

:cry:

I feel like this was only ever interesting as a cheap chi generator. Even if it becomes numerically worth pressing, it won’t really be an unpruned Expel Harm. Without Chi as a system it’s basically a new spell using the same name. If it was meant to be about bringing back something old they’ll have to look elsewhere.

9 Likes

Almost 1000 posts in this feedback thread. Pretty sure they didn’t read most them, and took into account even fewer, if any.

I’ve played Monk since its release. I’m used to Blizzard ignoring feedback from players. And in more recent xpacs, snubbing monks extra hard for some reason. Almost nothing Blizzard does surprises me anymore.

YET I still find myself shocked at how monks are going live today and how they are on beta. That at this point they can only get ‘tuned’. That’s like trying to bring in a car with missing parts and 3 wheels in for just a ‘tune-up’. It’s really not going to function well, and even if it drives, it’ll not be a fun ride.

I almost wish we got some kind of real post to let us know that someone thought about the spec for more than 1 minute. Even if it is to inform us that they reimagined us to be a summoning/pet class that isn’t meant for high-end content (not sure what they would say as the current monk direction makes 0 sense to me). That all these horrible changes such as the one to Reverse Harm were somehow intentional and not just random. At least we’d know they have a plan or a vision going forward. So I could probably shelf this spec. Now we’re all stuck, wholeheartedly, trying to make this class better. Testing endlessly to provide solid feedback and report bugs. It’s all entirely ignored. Not sure what else to say.

23 Likes

Okay… this feels a little bit like an exercise in futility but here it goes:

Please please PLEASE remove Celesital Brew from the GCD.

  1. Every other brew/defensive cooldown is currently off the GCD, so suddenly having an ability (which is now so core to your defensive rotation) be on the GCD feels incredibly jarring to the flow of the spec.

  2. It is such a gross situation to have to hold globals before a 0.5 second cast tank crush ability, especially with a button which is a form of proactive mitigation (damage prevention) rather than reactive mitigation (healing). Instead of being able to react in the moment and be rewarded for split second decision making, you are now stuck looking at DBM warnings and route learning spell queues…

  3. Now that CB has now been nerfed to such a degree, having it off the GCD is now less likely to feel overpowered. In it’s current incarnation CB is typically best utilised to soak a large isolated hit rather than in prior builds where a fully stacked CB was akin to having an 8 second immunity.

  4. Finally, CB being on the GCD puts Brewmasters in a situation where they have to choose between damaging GCDs to attempt to generate some more (of their already mediocre) threat or having to use that global to save themselves, instead of saving a group member from getting one shot by an enraged Gargon.

6 Likes

Exactly, its just disheartening…

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I’m still sort of shocked the monks (and survival hunters) are going live with so little changes applied to them. I’ve been maining a monk for years but Shadowlands finally made me throw in the towel and switch to a priest. I’d rather not but… for sheer fun and enjoyment? I didn’t feel I had much choice.

16 Likes

Well it’s less about the lack of changes since we did get a few nice changes here and there (except that the 2h weapon aura is still at 0%, but at least it’s implemented I guess). But that the spec is in a significantly more broken state than it was in BFA.

Like I had made a thread specifically just for how much of a mess SEF is right now over at:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/a-list-of-why-storm-earth-and-fire-is-an-absolute-mess/669369
… to put a little into perspective. It’s also a bit of a rant, but honestly at this point it’s kind of expected. Also while a huge portion of that still has time to be worked on since it’s expansion related content, the fact they’ve been around for months now with no changes doesn’t bode well… especially with the track-record SEF has.

A lot of other non-SEF problems could be found here in this feedback thread, like it’s just disappointing right now.

I would’ve loved to see more significant changes, but honestly at this point I’d accept just having the spec behave normally. Or the dumpster fire that is SEF to be handled better.

14 Likes

This is honestly Extremely Disappointing. We shouldn’t have to write posts about the Live Retail environment like this. Almost all the “Promises” we’ve been given in this thread simply haven’t happened, and who knows if they ever will at this rate.

Expectations, or lack Thereof Received

  1. Storm, Earth and Fire hasn’t had a single thing about it fixed despite, and I quote from Blizzard, “We’re also aware of many bugs related to Storm, Earth and Fire, particularly in relation to other spells. We’re making every effort to improve the reliability of this ability.”
  2. There is still no sign of any 2-Hand adjustment despite, and I quote from Blizzard, “We’re aware of balance concerns Windwalker Monks have about dual wield and 2 handed weapons. We’re considering different options to address the problem, and we’ll have more to share in the future.”

Fixed in Beta/PTR, Made it to Retail. WTF? This is a -SERIOUS- Bug

  1. Whirling Dragon Punch is doing damage continuously as long as you’ve selected the talent and have Fists of Fury on CD. As soon as you RSK you gain the WDP buff which causes it to attack 3 times before fading, every new RSK re-applies and again causes 3 attacks as long as FoF is on CD. You never actually have to use WDP for this to occur. Combat log Screenshot , only ability I pressed here was RSK.
    ___a. This has been hotfixed on Retail. Back to our usual mediocre selves.

Beta/PTR/Long Term Bugs That Made it to Live Pre-Patch or Were Never Fixed

  1. Windwalking Aura, multi-year bug. Does not stack with any % movement speed buff. Whether from the monk itself, an ally, etc.
  2. Whirling Dragon Punch and Storm, Earth and Fire. This is an old Legion+ bug. If you cast WDP at the end of SEF you can do over 300% damage. Previous ‘fix’ was to disallow ability to do cancelaura on SEF, just made it more difficult to do but didn’t fix it.
  3. Fists of fury, multi-year bug. If you kill something in the middle of FoF you’ll be stuck in combat for an extended length of time. Beyond frustrating.
  4. Storm Earth and Fire, old Legion bug is back. You can’t cast SEF and immediately FoF/RSK, otherwise clones may not cast it. Even more so if they have any sort of travel time to get to your target.
  5. Storm, Earth and Fire clones are not replicating Tiger Palm casts. Another strike for the sheer bugginess of SEF, this is causing them to break their Mastery/Hit Combo all the time.
  6. Expel Harm + SEF + Hit Combo/Combo Strikes. SEF inherits the players stacks but if you do Blackout Kick -> Expel Harm -> Blackout kick the SEF clones lose their Hit Combo stacks while the player retains them just fine: Combat log Screenshot. BoK -> EH -> BoK keeping Mastery/HC was something fixed a few builds ago for the Player, and now needs to be fix for SEF clones also?
  7. Expel Harm is interrupting Spinning Crane Kick channel. For example cast SCK -> Expel Harm, you’ll only get a tick or two of SCK before it’s interrupted. Other spells such as RSK, BoK, TP etc don’t do this.
  8. Touch of Death glows when hovering over an ally. This was already fixed in Beta/PTR but now it made it’s way to Retail. Huh? Then again in Beta as of right now you can’t even Touch of Death neutral/yellow enemies even if you attack them. Ability is broken in a new way almost every single build.
55 Likes

yeah, honestly insisting on playing windwalker at this point is like going back to a restaurant that you know the cooks spit on your food in particular. I’m done.

21 Likes

With the winds at your back may you never falter.

Just play rogue if you want an energy class that will always be viable. I’m in the same boat as you. I’ll always think of WW as the class I was “meant to play” but I’m not shackling myself to the wreckage of a sunken ship any longer.

Gonna try out a mage for SL first 1-2 months. If WW gets the treatment it deserves I’ll swap back. If it doesn’t by that point, then if I’m not enjoying the mage I’ll just quit for another 2 years.

It feels awful to say, but honestly people bailing on the spec (or game as a whole) en mass is about the only thing I think will actually get blizzards attention.

10 Likes

Hey guys, remember how they said healing spheres were coming back for mw? Good times!

Would have been cool though. Maybe they’ll use that for our mastery in 10.0!

15 Likes

They also told feral druids they were getting some utility in Leader of the Pack. Sucks to be the victims of the usual bait and switch.

4 Likes

Another beta build, another disappointment. I feel like a clown for playing this class, because Blizzard certainly thinks we’re a joke. :clown_face:

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Fallen Order got looked at (a 33% nerf) but still no tanking component to it for Brewmasters.

Blizz, PLEASE add something to Fallen Order for Brewmasters so that we can go Venthyr and not feel like an idiot for having a class ability that does nothing for our role.

Thank you.

8 Likes

Starting to feel like blizz isn’t really listening to us, I don’t understand how they haven’t even communicated with the community about windwalker at all.

5 Likes

Spell/Talent Bugs/Issues

  1. Current there is never a valid time to cast expel harm (heals less than vivify and has a cd)
  2. Healing orbs are just not in the game… like at all
  3. Mistwrap extends Enveloping Breath by 1 second (rising mist doesn’t interact)
  4. Using spinning crane kick during chi-ji seems to produce only 1 event (a set of 2 gusts) no matter the enemy count. seems like it should be 1 event per enemy
  5. Chi torpedo cancel macro doesn’t work anymore
  6. The expel harm that heals an ally doesn’t do damage if it heals.

Covenants Bugs/Issues

  1. Bonedust brew’s gust of mist doesn’t not interact with Essence font’s hot’s effect.
  2. Bonedust brew’s gust of mist can’t crit.
  3. Bonedust brew’s extra mastery healing is mastery + 42% sp not 42% sp. This extra mastery healing is its own healing event and doesn’t prevent the normal gust from procing so its basically 2xmastery + 42sp.
  4. Faeline Stomp is buggy when you’re moving. It will fragment into many segments and each segement works.
  5. Faeline Stomp has a mana cost but doesn’t use mana when cast
  6. Faeline stomp doesn’t respect target cap.
  7. Refreshing Breeze doesn’t extend Faeline Stomp’s essence font.
  8. Fallen Order doesn’t proc mastery even though it casts mastery procing spells.
  9. Fallen Order enveloping mists doesn’t increase your healing on that target
  10. Fallen Order enveloping mists healing boost boosts itself which it our core kit enveloping mist doesn’t so it seems like a bug

Conduit Bugs/Issues

  1. Dizzying Tumble dr starts on stun so if you’re first stun 60% of the dr is wasted
  2. Grounding breath increase ALL vivify healing on you not Vivifys you cast on yourself
  3. Resplendent Mist doesn’t increase chi-ji’s gust of mist healing
  4. Bone Marrow Hops’s healing increase doen’t work on healing from bone dust brew itself.
  5. Not sure if its a bug but the tooltip on jade bond makes it seem like chi-ji gust of mist should proc the cdr when it doesn’t. Make sense that it doesn’t but is a bit confusing
  6. Deny Harm does not boost the healing of the expel harm that heals an ally

Legendary Bugs/Issues

  1. Clouded Focus gains stacks based on people hit with vivify not casts. This means if you have 2 rems out casting vivify instantly puts you at 3 stacks of Clouded Focus.
  2. Clouded Focus increases Enveloping Breath’s healing.
  3. You gain Clouded Focus stacks if you cast vivify into any channeled ability and when you cancel that channeled ability you don’t lose the stacks. IE Vivify -> Crackling Jade Lightning. You will have gained stacks and they won’t go away after you cancel Crackling Jade Lightning.
  4. Clouded Focus increases Fallen Order’s Enveloping Mist
  5. Escape from reality whenever you cast Transcendence: transfer it resets the buff meaning you can teleport around every gcd.
  6. Tear of Morning healing is suppose to be just from enveloping mist and vivify but it appears enveloping breath also feeds into it!
  7. Invokers delight is escape from reality again

Trinket Interactions

  1. Consumptive Infusion only procs off of Crackling Jade Lightning, Chi burst, and Chi wave which means only 1 of our 5 base dps spells can proc it and its not one we want to use. This has been an issue in the past with things such as Lady Waycrest’s Music Box.
  2. Consumptive Infusion’s buff can’t be applied by vivify or expel harm even though both have a direct heal aspect.
17 Likes

New Build… 9.0.2.36206. Two fixes, everything else is the same along with 1 new, or rather returning, bug with Fallen Order.

Fixed

  1. Last Emperor’s Capacitor is mis-spelled on crafted items. It’s listed as ‘Capicator’ when it should be ‘Capacitor’.
    ___a. Fixed.
  2. Last Emperor’s Capacitor. Fist of the White Tiger, which is a Chi Generator, is granting a stack on Emp Cap. It should be Chi Spenders only.
    ___a. Fixed.
  3. Fatal Touch legendary reduces ToD by 2 minutes. Wear it, then log out and log back in. ToD now has no cooldown. This has been around for about 2 months, just forgot to put it on my list.
    ___a. Seems to have been hotfixed late 10/15 or early 10/16.

Still Broke

  1. New Xuen Rank 2, Empowered Tiger Lightning, interaction with Storm, Earth and Fire. The 30% Touch of Death amplifier from BFA appears to be missing when it comes to the new Rank 2 “Galeburst” from Xuen. This causes the Monk to do less damage overall if you use SEF at the same time as Xuen compared to not using SEF at all. Link for Explanation.
  2. Faeline Stomp still doesn’t work with WW Mastery. While probably not a bug, it should be considered one. The spell is up far too often for it not to work with Combo Strikes.
  3. Windwalking Aura, multi-year bug. Does not stack with any % movement speed buff. Whether from the monk itself, an ally, etc.
  4. Whirling Dragon Punch and Storm, Earth and Fire. This is an old Legion+ bug. If you cast WDP at the end of SEF you can do over 300% damage. Previous ‘fix’ was to disallow ability to do cancelaura on SEF, just made it more difficult to do but didn’t fix it.
  5. Fists of fury, multi-year bug. If you kill something in the middle of FoF you’ll be stuck in combat for an extended length of time. Beyond frustrating.
  6. Storm, Earth and Fire clones are frequently not doing anything after being summoned while in combat. They will stand there and will not attack as you fight. Meanwhile your damage is reduced by -55% for 15 seconds since we can’t /cancelaura SEF. Seems to be something to do with target dummies more than anything, almost 100% reproducible. GIF of the Issue Here.
  7. Storm Earth and Fire, old Legion bug is back. You can’t cast SEF and immediately FoF/RSK, otherwise clones may not cast it. Even more so if they have any sort of travel time to get to your target.
  8. Expel Harm is interrupting Spinning Crane Kick channel. For example cast SCK -> Expel Harm, you’ll only get a tick or two of SCK before it’s interrupted. Other spells such as RSK, BoK, TP etc don’t do this.
  9. Storm, Earth and Fire clones are not replicating Tiger Palm casts. They used to on live before pre-patch broke it. Another strike for the sheer bugginess of SEF, this is causing them to break their Mastery/Hit Combo all the time.
  10. Expel Harm + SEF + Hit Combo/Combo Strikes. SEF inherits the players stacks but if you do Blackout Kick -> Expel Harm -> Blackout kick the SEF clones lose their Hit Combo stacks while the player retains them just fine: Combat log Screenshot. BoK -> EH -> BoK keeping Mastery/HC was something fixed a few builds ago for the Player, and now needs to be fix for SEF clones also?
  11. Touch of Death’s primary tooltip doesn’t mention anything about the Rank 2 which gives 3 Chi orbs. Most other WW tooltips were fixed to show additional ranks (Such as Xuen/EH).
  12. Touch of Death cannot be used on Neutral (yellow) enemies no matter what you do, even if you attack them.
  13. Fallen Order Monks are not casting Fists of Fury. This was previously fixed and now it’s back once again.

Covenant Soulbinds

  1. Niya’s Grove Invigoration has a Tooltip mis-match. ‘Grove Invigoration’ (Spell ID 322721) says “35 Mastery”. ‘Redirected Anima’ (SpellID 342802) stacking unused buff says “2% Increased Mastery”. ‘Redirected Anima’ (SpellID 322721) says “35% Mastery”. Which is it? First one, 322721 seems accurate as I gain 35 Mastery rating with 1 stack. Screenshot comparison here.
15 Likes

They haven’t interacted with most class subfora period for months already short of comments on bug fixes.

Fallen Order nerfs are just proving Kyrian to be better overall now.

Fortifying Brew is now 3 minutes on Beta as well LMFAO

good week for monks

6 Likes

I guess this question kind of stems a bit from another bug, where your celestial flame and regular breath of fire are not stacking (and we’re still not 100% positive if they should - they are seperate IDS so I’m leaning towards yes), but would Venthyr be more appealing if multiple instances of BoF were in fact seperate damage reductions?

Then as a second question. Ox monks are supposed to be casting clash, you’ll also get the crane monks that will heal you, What about Venthyr makes you feel like an idiot for picking it as a tank? Outside of initial testing I’ve mainly focused on Kyrian and I don’t think I would ever really fault a monk for playing Venthyr as a tank so I’m just wondering if I’m missing something (or if it’s just a difference in preferences).

Sounds like all is good in the world. Let’s wrap beta up and call it a day.

I also saw my keefer’s buffed to 50% crit.

Kyrian/Keefer/Alpha Tiger supremacy inbound.

:YublobTeaSip:

2 Likes