FEEDBACK: Monk Class Changes

We are back again with the bug list. Old post was too hard to find so HERE WE :honeybee:
Core:
Spell/Talent Bugs/Issues

  1. Chi-ji has a hidden mana cost that is 1/4 of your total mana
  2. Chi-ji’s damage isn’t converted to healing
  3. Chi-ji no longer converts melees to healing
  4. If you cast chi-ji when below 25% mana you will summon Chi-ji but not get a damage to healing buff
  5. Chi-ji no longer converts touch of death, a physical damage spell, into healing.
  6. Spinning Crane Kick’s healing is reduced by 50%, this isn’t said on a tooltip anywhere and with sck target capped it makes this spell always the worse for hps
  7. Touch of Death requires you to melee something to be able to cast it meaning if you want to use Spinning crane kick you can’t touch of death (as its a “channel” ability meaning you can’t auto attack)
  8. Healing orbs are just not in the game… like at all
  9. Current there is never a valid time to cast expel harm (costs more than vivify, heals less than vivify even ignoring mastery, has a cd)
  10. Expel Harm will not heal your Soothing Mist Target unless you’re also targeting them even though you can only cast Expel harm on yourself.
  11. Expel Harm isn’t boosted by env’s healing boost.
  12. Jade Serpent Statue heals are not effected by varience (the ±5%)
  13. Blackout kicks from teachings of the monastery do less damage than regular Blackout kicks.

Covenants Bugs/Issues

  1. Bonedust brew’s 35% healing replication isn’t just 35% but 35% * vers + 10% sp * vers.
  2. Bonedust brew damage done is different if you have the buff vs if the mob has the buff.
  3. Bonedust brew can heal people that don’t have the buff.
  4. Bonedust brew doesn’t increase gust healing.
  5. Anyone hit with Bonedust brew will be cleaved by vivify
  6. Bonedust brew doesn’t work on test dummies
  7. Faeline Stomp won’t heal yourself
  8. Faeline Stomp is buggy when you’re moving. It will fragment into many segments and each segement works.
  9. Faeline Stomp is very buggy if it hits people or not. I have stood in front of someone and used it and it hit them but they didn’t get healed.
  10. Faeline Stomp is mana cost doesn’t actually cost mana
  11. Fallen Order doesn’t cast anything besides soothing mist
  12. Fallen Order will only healing you
  13. Fallen Order’s Soothing Mist hits for 50% of your soothing mist
  14. Fallen order clones do more damage for mistweaver than they do for windwalker.

Conduit Bugs/Issues

  1. Rising Sun Revival does 10% of revival’s PRE-Mistweaver Aura healing per hot tick interval and does 5 ticks so it does a total of 50% of pre-aura healing (I know the aura is gone but this is an easier way to say it rather than saying revivals healing / 1.4)
  2. Rising Sun Revival doesn’t scale to crits
  3. Rising Sun Revival’s tooltip states Rising Sun Kick reduces the remaining cooldown on Revival by 0.0 sec, but it is 1. This change happened with the last build iirc
  4. Strike with Clarity’s tooltip states Weapons of Order's duration is increased by -0.0 sec, but in all reality this is 5. This change happened with the last build iirc
  5. Jade bond doesn’t work with chi-ji (jade bone reduces yu’lon cd by .5 second per gust proc, if you take chi-ji it replaces yu’long meaning you completely nullify a conduit by swapping talents)
  6. Jade bond’s tooltip states Abilities that activate Gust of Mist reduce the cooldown on Invoke Yul'on, the jade Serpent by 0.0 sec,
  7. Fortifying Ingredients isn’t 5% but appears to be 10% + mw aura (appears this could be wrong on my end but its not 5% of hp)
  8. Dizzying Tumble dr starts on stun so if you’re first stun 60% of the dr is wasted
  9. Grounding breath increase ALL vivify healing on you not Vivifys you cast on yourself

Legendary Bugs/Issues

  1. Ancient Teachings of the Monastery is affected by vers. (shouldn’t be)
  2. Ancient Teachings of the Monastery doesn’t heal from Rising Sun Kick.
  3. Ancient Teachings of the Monastery doesn’t count Blackout Kicks from Teachings of the Monastery.
  4. Invoker’s Delight work for yu’lon but only lasts 15 seconds even though yu’lon lasts 25.
  5. Invoker’s Delight work for chi-ji but only lasts 15 seconds even though chi-ji lasts 25.
  6. Clouded Focus doesn’t effect Enveloping Mist in terms of healing.
  7. Roll out works but is a worse version of Celerity, a talent we already don’t take.
  8. Tears of Morning isn’t increased by enveloping mists.
  9. Tears of Morning doesn’t increase all spells healing even if they are apart of the core kit.
  10. Tears of Morning tooltips reads heal for 50 but does about 5x that amount.
55 Likes

3 of the 4 have a mana cost

Necrolord 0 man 1 min cd
Venthyr 1000 mana 3 min cd
Kyrian 3500 mana 2 min cd
NIght Fae 2000 man 30 sec cd (and for some reason 30 yd range what?)

2 Likes

WW monk. Ill let people smarter than myself go into numbers I’ll focus more on how the class feels to play.

I worry about late game scaling. Nothing I’ve seen seems to address that.

It feels like we haven’t gained anything as a class coming into Shadowlands. From Legion to BFA the class has only regressed. Any extra procs or powers from the borrowed systems either get removed or baked into the class as a talent.

Our talents need looked at. Serenity hasn’t been worth using in a very long time and hit combo should be just baked into the class at this point. Its nothing more than just a flat damage increase with no interaction.

Our animations still can’t make us their minds about when to use our weapons and when not to. This is a nit pick but still.

21 Likes

About some of the very few changes that we had over the last weeks for mistweavers:

Weapons of Order
Now I understand that it had to be tuned, it was obvious. But this nerf was… brutal. With 3 EF casts I feel the 6 target cap is something we can deal with. The huge spellpower ratio nerf however is just way too heavy and makes it really bad and near unplayable. I know it can be tuned back up, but I don’t get why they would destroy the only ability that was actually relevant for raiding. On the other hand, now that it has been torn down, what better occasion for an EF/Upwelling and mastery rework ?

Bonedust Brew
The recent buff (35% chance of +35% effectiveness) makes it a lot more relevant. It can do decent healing even when not using the cleave bug. Just RJW, throw the brew, cast a fully stacked EF, chi burst, refresh RJW, some ReM in between.
But it quickly loses its taste since it just lacks more interactivity, and the additional gust of mists healing does not help with that. Just throw it correctly and you get +X% hps. To be fair it’s not too terrible as it’s quite easy to add into a rotation, but as I said a couple of weeks ago I just hope that the cleave bug will inspire the devs to improve the design of this ability.

I’d like to comment on the nerf of the reset chance of Faeline Stomp, but since it is still completely bugged I guess there’s no point. I just hope a fix will come soon enough so that we may give proper feedback before it is too late. Same thing for the venthyr ability.

Our toolkit issues have been well covered by other posts on this topic, on reddit or on various videos/talks and I believe there is more than enough material for impactful changes. Alongside a rework for EF and for our mastery, I’ll just add as a personal wishlist some attention to Soothing Mist. I heard Babylonius and Jfunk explain that there’s not many wind-themed abilities left in the WW kit, and I feel the same thing is happening for the weaver part of MWs. For me this spell carries much of the weaver fantasy and feels quite unique. But it is too often not worth much in raids and it would be nice to see some buffs/changes to it. For example by embedding the current Gust of Mists into Soothing Mist and creating a new mastery (everything is a good excuse for a mastery rework), or lowering the gdc of the channel start (thus allowing quicker target switches or jade statue activations). And as it has already been discussed, the Clouded Focus legendary needs something else to make it more relevant. (a lingering buff would be interesting)

I really do hope we’ll have meaningful changes soon to both our toolkit and to the SL additions. Tear of Morning is really great, but besides that all other legendaries and conduits feel like lackluster features for a dying spec. At the very least let us know that all the feedback has been read and is being acted upon before this becomes a thread of mourning.

10 Likes

Since I don’t feel like PvP gets enough attention here, I’d just like to say that none of the Monk’s covenant class abilities are looking good for PvP. After spending a few hours doing skirmishes, this is what I found:

  • Bonedust Brew - Great in AoE situations like M+, in PvP it provides no extra utility or burst damage. I felt like using it was a waste of a GCD.

  • Faeline Stomp - Possibly the worst one for PvP. It’s a thin line that’s harder to aim when targets are moving around and if it does hit them, does very little damage and provides no utility.

  • Fallen Order - I feel like on paper this one would be the best for PvP. However, the fallen Monks it summons are all slow and CC’able and can EASILY be avoided by just moving away from their static spawn point on the ground. Extremely underwhelming in PvP, especially for a 3 min CD that you’ll only be able to use two or so times in a match.

  • Weapons of Order - This one is arguably the best in PvP as it’s the one that provides the most burst damage. However, just like all our other abilities, it provides ZERO utility in PvP. Kyrians are also the only covenant in the game that has a covenant signature ability that DOES NOT WORK in arenas.

To summarize; none of the Monk class abilities effect our PvP in any meaningful way. Covenant class abilities like the Warrior’s Kyrian spear, the DH’s NF teleport, the DK’s Necrolord AoE grips all noticeably help in PvP with damage and/or utility.

Would be great if we got something like those as well.

30 Likes

Thank you, Monk community, for your patience throughout Shadowlands development. We’re especially grateful for the many detailed bug reports that Monk testers have submitted.

In this week’s build, you’ll see a number of updates to Monk leveling rewards. These include several spell upgrades, as well as the removal of Dual Wield and 2-handed requirements for Fists of Fury (Windwalker) and Blackout Kick (Brewmaster). We also performed a pass on all of the Celestial invocation spells, adding Rank 2 upgrades for each and re-designing Yu’lon and Chi-Ji for Mistweavers.

Brewmaster
Level 58 – Invoke Niuzao, the Black Ox – Rank 2

  • The damage of Niuzao’s Stomp is now increased by 25% of the Stagger damage you have purified in the last 5 seconds.

Windwalker
Level 58 – Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger – Rank 2

  • Xuen strikes your enemies with Empowered Tiger Lightning every 8 seconds, dealing 10% of damage you have dealt to those targets in the last 8 seconds.

Mistweaver
Level 34 - Invoke Yu’lon, the Jade Serpent

  • Mana cost increased to 5% base Mana (was 0%).
  • Yu’lon now idles near the Mistweaver and casts Soothing Breath on an injured target, healing the target and up to 4 nearby injured allies.
  • Soothing Breath gains benefit from Soothing Mist bonuses, similar to Summon Jade Serpent Statue.

Level 45 – Invoke Chi’Ji, the Red Crane

  • Mana cost reduced to 5% base Mana (was 10%).
  • Chi’Ji is now assists the Monk and deals melee damage.
  • While Chi’Ji is active, your Physical attacks cause Chi’Ji to heal up to 3 injured allies with a Gust of Mist, and reduce the cast time of your next Enveloping Mist by 33%, stacking 3 times.
  • Chi’Ji’s Gust of Mist currently heals for 200% of a normal mastery heal.
  • Activating Invoke Chi’Ji, the Red Crane clears the Mistweaver of all movement impairing (snare, root) effects, and provides immunity to these effects for the duration.

Level 58 – Invoke Yu’lon, the Jade Serpent – Rank 2

  • Yu’lon and Chi-Ji now heal up to 5 nearby targets with Enveloping Breath when you cast Enveloping Mist, healing over 6 seconds, and increasing the healing they receive from you by 10%.

We’ve been working hard to address the many bugs that have been submitted, with a focus on those bugs that are impacting testing, and we expect to have Monk testing in a much better place with next week’s build of the Shadowlands Beta (the first week of September).

Our goal is to make use of the feedback we’ve received here and elsewhere, with respect to Covenant class abilities, core class abilities, and legendaries. Thank you for your commitment to providing us with so much valuable information. Please look for more updates next week!

64 Likes

It’s a Christmas miracle!

Thanks!

21 Likes

Can’t wait to test the duel wielding brewmaster and 2h ww. Sadly the beta is down right now.

5 Likes

Please keep the changes coming :pray:

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Dear Class Development Team:

In the off-chance a developer actually reads this ~

I am an active poster in the Peak of Serenity Discord and have played monk since legion at a Cutting Edge level with top 100 Allstars the last 2 raid tiers, and know every single facet with the spec.

We sincerely appreciate the communication this post brings and the smidge of hope we get from it, but we will need more from you as the spec is on it’s last legs.

We can see that we are the lowest dps (barely above subtly rogue) in 8.3, the biggest power boom that WoW has seen ever, which displays one of the core problems, is that windwalker does not scale with your 3rd party arbitrary damage sources. Additionally we have the lowest population of players for a dps spec, which i understand goes into the decision making for allocating resources. But I assure you this view is incorrect because when you don’t help the low pop specs, then it’s a spiral downward because it causes less and less people to play said spec.

Secondly, I encourage one of you to join the Peak of Serenity discord and check out #wind-shadowlands and see how dedicated and passionate we are about windwalkers, more so than any other spec in the game since there is no reason to play windwalker when every other spec is objectively better.

The one thing I want the team to understand is the ONLY way windwalker’s population will go up is if the development team helps us, by removing Storm, Earth, and Fire (since it is the buggiest ability in the game and none of us think you can fix it at a fundamental level because the code is so complicated), making meaningful talent choices, fixing our scaling (make our stats (like critical strike) interract with our abilities, besides mastery (since mastery doesnt work on anything outside of monk abilities)), and finally give us a niche to be brought to raid. That could be an immunity (zen meditation?), an execute, or a raid wide cd like darkness.

Thank you for the work you do and I hope you give windwalker a chance to be a fun choice for players in Shadowlands!

Edit: Here are some realities of windwalker, and it’s the exact same in beta.

  • Whirling Dragon Punch should not cause movement on the y axis and should not stun the player for 2 seconds because of an animation. It disrupts the flow of a melee character
  • Chi burst shouldn’t be a cast because it disrupts the flow of a melee. There is no other melee in the game that channels or casts as much as windwalker.
  • Spiritual focus is useless and will never ever be taken.
  • The 15 talent row is not particularly interesting in any way.
  • Tiger Tail Sweep is completely useless in every way.
  • Ring of Peace should be baseline, freeing up the 35 row
  • Hit combo is redundant with combo strikes and is too punishing, and blatantly just boring since it doesn’t do anything besides passively increase damage.
  • Serenity needs a lot of work since the best way to use it is to ignore our mastery which is intuitively contradictory.
  • Energizing elixir will never be chosen because it feels we cannot get the full use out of the ability, especially because of the fact it is on the GCD, therefore causing it not to flow well.
  • Stop treating us like rogues. We don’t need all these extra resources.

#DeleteStormEarthFire

115 Likes

Hey so thanks for the changes, really cool to see some big mechanical shake-ups. Just looking at the Mistweaver stuff its sort of hard to parse what your guy’s intent is. It seems like there’s more changes on the way that just aren’t public yet because otherwise half this stuff doesn’t really make sense otherwise. For example when you say
" * Soothing Breath gains benefit from Soothing Mist bonuses, similar to Summon Jade Serpent Statue."
I don’t know what thats supposed to mean because Jade Serpent statue doesn’t gain any benefits from Soothing Mist - in fact I’m not even sure what Soothing Mist bonuses exist. Does this mean there are more changes that just haven’t been announced?

Moving on to Chiji, very dope you guys are making our mastery do more things, this was a HUGE point of contention in the MW community. However, I worry that if we’re not adding more mastery interactions most of our kit, then this might not be enough to make monks care about gearing for mastery, and like we have for the past 4 years, we’ll avoid it like the plague. That might unintentionally make Chiji a dead talent. Of course I haven’t got the chance to do the math on how this change would compare to on live, or to test the interactions between Essence Font and this new Chiji heal, but this just immediately jumps out as a potential problem to me.

Anyway keep up the good work, love to see big shake ups to these sorts of abilities

EDIT - My bad, I was so hyped to read the changed I skipped the bit at the end where you guys mentioned that more changes were coming next week. Super stoked to see what you all have planned

23 Likes

Love to see changes for mistweaver which seem like they can shake up some things. Would need to do some number crunching for chi-ji’s change but it does seem like a few buttons are still missing mastery interaction.

4 Likes

Can you Un-Lobotomize brewmaster please?

Stagger is now completely passive. Brews no longer share cooldowns.
The spec plays itself and gets 1 absorb shield every 30 seconds.

You’ve made it singlehandedly the easiest tank spec in the game, and the most boring. It is 99% passive.

10 Likes

I doubt they will put Gust on everything (like the Bolts from EF), but giving Mastery more interaction with the base kit is at least a step in the right direction for MW. It’s still my main healer I go to and its the worst designed Mastery in the game by far.

Chi-Ji + Enveloping Breath + Bonedust Brew will at least make for some VERY strong cleave situations. Maybe this is the niche MW has been lacking for so long? Let us be a super 5-6 cleave healer, even better than Shaman.

3 Likes

They don’t need to put direct healing from it onto all spells but have some interaction with it

Completely agreed. Seconding the #DeleteStormEarthFire , and if any devs are reading this, please go check out the Peak of Serenity discord, it’s very active with lots of great feedback

25 Likes

EF does have interaction with it specifically. But yeah stuff like LC does need interaction with it. At least Yu’lon/Chi-ji now have DIRECT Mastery scaling. This opens up a lot of design space going forward. If they can give the entire toolkit Mastery interaction, that will go a long way into finally being able to move MW into a real niche.

2 Likes

To increase the impact of “Mortal Wounds” and similar healing reduction effects in PvE situations, we’re doubling the magnitude of these effects against non-player enemies. The value of these effects will remain the same against players.

Warrior, Hunter, Monk

  • Mortal Wounds now reduces healing taken by 50% (25% against players).

Rogue

  • Wound Poison now reduces healing taken by 8% per stack (4% against players).

Warlock

  • Mortal Cleave/Legion Strike now reduces healing taken by 20% (10% against players).
9 Likes

W/ the current build today, is it intended for WW Blackout Kick to not have a Chi cost?
It is normally 1 Chi.
Edit: Copied a monk over that was 1 xp away from level 23, which gives the Rank 3 BoK. Rank 2 BoK has 1 Chi Cost, and Rank 3 BoK 0 Chi cost.

10 Likes

I assume it’s just something wonky because of leveling BoK chi cost reduction changes, I can’t see this as being something intended, but hopefully we get an answer soon just to be sure yea

6 Likes