Feedback: Mages

What if the bottom of the tree looked something like this:

Any better?

Also here’s a slightly revised version of my class tree mockup as a whole, with the Frostborne enhancement change:


I personally wouldn’t like to see a return of [Deathborne] because of how it makes the AoE rotation just a [Frostbolt] spam on live. Unless there’d be something that wouldn’t promote this kind of gameplay I just wouldn’t be on board with this design anymore. Ignoring procs during giant skelly mode is just another no [Ice Lance] build that honestly shouldn’t ever exist, and that’s only considering Frost.

On another note, why not call it [Frozen Heart] or [Cold Heart]?

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Cold Heart is the name of a Frost Death Knight talent, but Frozen Heart isn’t a bad name :slight_smile:

I wouldn’t want to sacrifice [Invisibility] for it, but I’d definitely sacrifice a lot of other barrier talents that are just filler and barely do anything, on top of [Overflowing Energy] that shouldn’t ever make it live. I’d happily trade [Tempest Barrier], [Diverted Energy] and [Accumulative Shielding] for [Triune Ward] any day of the week.

I’m honestly surprised we haven’t seen anything about [Triune Ward] considering it’s easily one of the spells that embraces their stated goal of making Mage a master of magic instead of solely focusing on a single specialization at a time. The other one that does that is [Disciplinary Command] but that one has terrible gameplay implications and I’m glad hasn’t made a comeback.


If nothing else, Triune Ward would make a great replacement for the problematic (and NYI) Overflowing Energy talent in the class tree just below the Barrier spell.


I know there are quite a few people who like Deathborne and want that playstyle to remain in some capacity. Without the legendary and conduit effects, it will likely end up feeling underwhelming. Plus there’s the problem of it continuing the situation of Frostbolt spam and ignoring Ice Lance, and spec design should really avoid situations where the major proc is ignored cause it’s a dps loss. I believe Deathborne not returning is probably better overall for Frost and for Mages in general.

It would probably be healthier to keep Fractured Frost as it is right now if Cold Front was removed or changed in some way, to prevent ignoring Ice Lance. I do feel Cold Front needs to also include Ice Lance to be a healthy talent for the spec.

Alternatively, I think it would be more interesting if it were more controllable. For example, if it was just a flat 100% chance for Frostbolt to hit up to 3 targets standing in Blizzard. This way AoE would feel less bad when you need to cast Frostbolt cause it’s cleaving.


I stand by replacing [Fractured Frost] with a short cooldown spell that hurls a bunch of [Frostbolts] like many NPCs’ [Frostbolt Volley] and making it hit more targets. It wouldn’t encourage fishing for procs in AoE by spamming our filler and it wouldn’t depend on RNG either.

The whole idea of “filler” spells, abilities that must by definition be awful but you have to use them to fill in time and generate procs anyway, is pretty nuts. The game makes us stand in place and do an interruptable channel, it should feel at least somewhat worthwhile to do so. There can be degrees of spells be more or less powerful but all of them should have some sort of visceral impact, and letting frostbolts do some cleave is very valid here.

I wouldn’t object to a nice cooldown that gives you 100% proc rate of fractured frost in addition to a passive always-on proc chance. Let frostbolt be a good spell for once!

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I think this would be quite cool actually, to have a mass AoE Frostbolt, providing it was done right. Although, I think Frost really should have a new/separate AoE spell that uses FoF, instead of just leaning on Frostbolt to fill that gap when it really should be a filler spell.

Given that Frost has not had a new active spell introduced to the spec since Legion, I don’t particularly have high hopes for it now so am just leaning on the existing passives that shouldn’t require much modification.

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That’s mostly so [Cold Front] can be kept as a talent. I wouldn’t be against getting rid of it as well but [Fractured Frost] is a way bigger problem than [Cold Front].

I forgot how much I loved Triune Ward. Such a cool effect.

Fractured Frost is only a problem because Cold Front exists. On its own Fractured Frost is fine. Cold Front is just begging players to Frostbolt spam to fish for CF stacks, and as IL does not contribute towards CF, then it is encouraging players to ignore IL.

Either Cold Front needs to include IL so that IL can also build stacks, or Fractured Frost needs to be revised in some way to stop unhealthy gameplay. The easiest solution is the former.

I still strongly believe Cold Front should just be scrapped for a better and more interesting AoE ability that players have greater agency over and provides interesting changes to the rotation, such as Frost Bomb. It would seriously make the spec feel more fresh cause at the moment Frost is looking to be just SL 2.0 and some variety and spice is key every expansion to stop it feeling boring.

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I am fine with the deathborn changes. But I rather shifting power go away altogether. I think some bigger changes need to be made with how rune of power works as compared to incanters flow. Rune of power should be instant and the rune should follow you no matter where you go. I am ok with them making adjustments to how much it increases spell damage and cd.

Also there needs to be more pruning of the mage trees. Some of these talents are still just not needed in its current. One example is presence of mind. It needs to be removed and just allow the empowered arc blasts from clear casting to be instant.


well you really wouldn’t be losing invisibility since we still have the greater version. Getting away is not a big issue. It is being able to stand up toe to toe with mobs that have a very high life pool when you can’t get any support from other players.
Plus there is way too many useless talents in the trees. I think Naxeema covered that.

We def need more connections between talents. What they gave so far is fine and doable. But more would be great.

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You can use [Invisibility] and [Greater Invisibility] separately. [Invisibility] can be used entirely for utility and [Greater Invisibility] can be used for either that or defensively.

They don’t even know we got new patch notes.

From Dragonflight Pre-Expansion PTR Development Notes - #5 by Linxy-11302

  • MAGE
    • Class Tree
      • Overflowing Energy has been reworked and implemented – Your spell critical strike damage is increased by 10%. When your direct damage spells fail to critically strike a target, your spell critical strike chance is increased by 2%, up to 10% for 8 seconds.
    • Arcane
      • Improved Arcane Barrage – Renamed to Arcing Cleave.
      • Conjure Mana Gem – Cooldown reduced to 90 seconds (was 120 seconds).
      • Impetus now has added functionality – If you were to gain an Arcane Charge while at maximum charges instead 10% Arcane damage for 10 seconds.
    • Fire
      • Flamestrike – Position swapped with Fervent Flickering.
      • Improved Flamestrike – Reduces Flamestrike’s cooldown by 1 second (was 0.5 seconds).
      • Phoenix Reborn – Now directly available after Improved Phoenix Flames (+1 Charge to Phoenix Flames). No longer has a connection from Firemind.
      • Pyroclasm – No longer has a connection from Phoenix Reborn or Tinder. Now has a connection from Firemind or Improved Phoenix Flames. Now has a leading connection to Controlled Destruction.
      • Master of Flame – Now directly available after Conflagration. No longer has a connection from Blaster Master.
      • Pyromaniac and Molten Skyfall selection node – Now has a connection from Blaster Master and Conflagration. Now has a leading connection to Fevered Incantation.
    • Frost
      • Everlasting Frost – No longer a choice node with Improved Blizzard. Now available directly below Flurry and has an added connection going to Ebonbolt and Frozen Touch.
      • Frostbite – Now has an added connection going to Bonechilling
      • Improved Blizzard – No longer a choice node with Everlasting Frost. Damaging an enemy with Blizzard reduces the cooldown of Frozen Orb by 0.5 seconds (was 0.3 seconds).
      • Arctic Piercing has been redesigned and renamed to Piercing Cold – Now increases Frostbolt, Icicle, and Glacial Spike (if talented) critical strike damage by 20%.
      • Icy Veins – Base duration increased to 25 seconds (was 20 seconds).
      • Improved Icy Veins – Removed.
      • Slick Ice – No longer a choice node with Freezing Winds and now available directly after Icy Propulsion.
      • Freezing Winds – No longer a choice node with Slick Ice.
      • Perpetual Winter – Swapped positions with the Ebonbolt/Frozen Touch node.
      • Glacial Assault – Swapped positions with Deep Shatter.


thanks for this update Rubb. I really didn’t know they were making changes. gotta go test them out.

Just a tip. but I recommend all mages to take up icy floes over shimmer. I feell ike it is really undervalued. Especially when mages have long casts like pyroblast, arcane surge, and glacial spike. Losing an extra blink did not really feel bad. Unless you died and running through a long dungeon to catch up to the rest of the group. On that statement. we need more portals in dungeons. lol

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I actually never take Shimmer. Not just because as Arcane on live I value Slipstream more, but specifically because Shimmer removes the stun and root break from Blink. When I first tried out Shimmer way back in the day I really felt the loss of the stun/root break and never looked back.


My big take away between this and the extra datamined changes on the PTR: I’m not expecting any more impactful redesigns here.

Overflowing Energy is an excellent change, and the change to Freezing Cold to add a diminishing snare after the effect ends is nice.

But a lot of these Conduit talents continue to be unattractive or feel as if they have so little impact, I don’t need to deliberate any of my decisions in the class tree; I just cruise around and grab all the active buttons with zero compromises.

Improved Frost Nova is still here. Mirror Image’s choice talents still require some redesign work. There’s nothing to improve Arcane Explosion or Fire Blast which I think would be very exciting. I wish Quick Witted had another minor effect on either throughput/Proc/GCD reduction, which other classes commonly enjoy, instead of just being the Shadowlands Counterspell conduit it currently is.

Also, I don’t like Meteor as a Capstone and instead wish the two fire/ice themed capstones would be Shifting Power and Mirrors of Torment respectively.

On the fire side making Fervent Flickering switch with Flamestrike is excellent, but making Phoenix Reborn and Master of Flame harder to hit because you have to spend an extra point to path towards each of them is kind of brutal. UNLESS…

And this is why we need some developer dialogue to figure out what they’re shooting for.

UNLESS. If the intent is that we should be able to build into strong Mythic+ Cleave/low-target AOE damage without Flamestrike (I.E. hitting Phoenix Reborn + Master of Flame + Living Bomb + Fiery Rush + Hyperthermia)… I think I’d be mostly OK with this tree as it stands.

Just make “Feel the Burn” into a choice node against Infernal Cascade for both extra Combustion rotational nuance + better support for Phoenix Flames and to free up a point so that I could do 2/2 Firemind, 2/2 Controlled Destruction, or Cauterize + Skyfall Choice Nodes to round out a Flamestrike-less Cleave/AOE build.