FEEDBACK: Mage Class Changes

Mage in General: Feels great to be able to use other schools of magic again, for the flavor let alone some of the utility in being able to slow and kite easier in other specs outside of Frost.

Alter time is an amazing cooldown for both positioning and as a survival cooldown.

Using mana as a resource for abilities we don’t normally use is neat and the spells outside your primary tree hit hard enough they don’t feel useless to press in a pinch or with movement.

Spec Specific Issues

Fire: Still has the issue of not having a smooth rotation until secondary stats get expanded later on in the expansion and will lose the tools that made it more fluid to use with upgrade away from Hyperthread Bracers and Memory of Lucid dreams being gone as well.

Instead of the Mastery increase talent, perhaps adding a talent that adds like lucid dreams or the hyperthread bracers for folks who prefer that smoother playstyle.

An alternative being, make meteor baseline for fire since it has been the most picked talent for a long time, or, making the Kindling talent baseline to kinda fit in theme with fire anyways and replacing it with a talent like lucid dreams or the bracers so combustions can feel more powerful since pheonix flames no longer crits automatically.

Mage Specific Covenant Feedback for each Spec:

Kyrian Radiant Spark

General: The duration on the damage increase debuff on this would be nice if it was longer so longer cast times could be accommodated such as pyroclasm casts for fire and allows a more methodical approach for choosing spells to increase in damage.

Frost: Radiant Spark feels amazing when you use glacial spike on a 4th stack and it doesn’t make the rotation overly complicated other than needing to kinda time it to line up more with frost bolts.

Just like arcane, it could be improved by allowing flurry to be counted as a singular spells and series of damage in lieu of blowing three charges on it. Right now the best use feels like, 3 frostbolts into a glacial spike instead.

Fire: For fire this feels great for combustion windows to get those big nasty pryoblats in there to build into ignite, I only wish we’d been able to keep the 100% damage buff instead of capping at 40%.

Arcane: For arcane, this feels amazing for Arcane blast and even barrage, however, just like with frost, Arcane Missiles gets heavily punished for usage and counts each missile. If it were counted as a singular set of damage for the channel, arcane could see a lot more use with that even if it does kind of complicate their rotation and cooldowns more.

Venthyr Mirrors of Torment

Mages: This one in general, from what I understand there’s some cool legendary interactions with it, but it doesn’t have a lot of use unless a boss is casting that can’t be interrupted to take advantage of it. I think, even adding a dot component even a minor one in conjunction with it’s regular function would make it feel better in general.

NecroLord Deathborne

Frost: The issue with this particular ability is though, adding frostbolt and giving it some cleave is helpful, that’s not where our damage really comes from. Even adding flurry to the cleave would help a bit to make it better. And for such a long cooldown, 10% damage increase for 20 seconds on a 3 minute cooldown feels kinda small in comparison.

Fire: For fire, the same issues stems where fireball is basically just our builder and not even a lot because as soon as we get a crit we’re changing gears to fireblast into a pyroblast. If this made our pyroblast cleave a second target it would be much more competitive.

Arcane: Arcane works pretty well with this talent because of how much time can be spent using arcane blast and it lines up okayish with our other cooldowns, though, adding arcane missiles on top of it or buffing the 10% damage would help it quite a bit as well.

Night Fae Shifting Power

Frost: This spell is cool looking and the cooldown reduction serves a purpose, but the cooldown reduction is so minor and requires so much risk to get it on top of breaking the rotation that it doesn’t feel worth it to use. If they wanted to keep the getting in close aspect of it, making it a spell you could cast and then move with would help it’s usability.

Increasing it’s cooldown reduction to help more with longer cooldowns would be great, or making it remain channeled and giving us the ability to cast it on the ground somewhere but requiring it to hit a target for the cooldown reduction would have it be more usable in separate situations.

Fire: A lot of this was covered in general notes for frost, but essentially the issue is needing to run into melee more and being easily stopped or disrupted by errant stuns, silences, or any other CC on top of being a small amount of cooldown reduction doesn’t make it attractive. Making it so that this gave more cooldown reduction, had range, or even had a neat combo like turning back the cooldown on say fireblast as well to reset our charges for a burst window would make it even better for fire.

Arcane: For Arcane, the ability to get our cooldowns back faster is almost to a point where it feels like there is always a cooldown to press which is nice, for the impact it gives arcane it actually feels rather balanced, though, for quality of life, being able to range cast it’s channel would be nice as well.

Conclusion

Right now, even as janky as it can be with channeled abilities, the Radiant Spark ability feels the best to use Overall for most of the specs and seems to be where most mages will get herded to in order to stay competitive.

2 Likes

strong text (Fire) strong text
buff the proc rate of firestorm and just make the pyroblast not crit. Give alter time the same purge protection Same as temp as in when it’s stolen you will be automatically healed and returned to where you used it at. Fire feels fine PvP wise I feel like with these two changes fire will be just as viable as arcane or frost

3 Likes

I like fire and frost playstyles with the new legendaries and soulbinds but damage wise i feel like its lacking 2hats the point of playing the spec if nobody is going to invite you becquse the spec has low dmage xd

The State of arcane mage currently on the beta as far as class fantasy and pve gameplay has me really concerned for Shadowlands, the current playstyle is simply spam arcane missiles… there is no mana management or charge management, arcane blast does no damage so if i have 1 charge or 4 doesnt matter cause i cant cast arcane blast… NONE of the conduits or legendaries effect arcane blast outside the clear casting conduit which is overshadowed by every other conduit. Arcane class fantasy has always been, if i want to oom out i will be top ST dps but soon drop to the bottom cause i was dumb and oomed out… the class as it stands now is not about mana management its just arcane missile spam and watch it proc legendary buffs and conduit buffs… id suggest arcane blast buff to make it your main focus damage (currently 2k at 4 charges to like 3.5k) then nurf arcane missiles from (current 5k to 3k) so that clearcasting still has value but it doesn’t overshadow the main class ability and IF someone wanted to arcane missile spam its still viable… hell id love an arcane blast legendary or conduit, maybe one tht reduces touch of the magi cd or buffs its contribution to touch of the magi, a chance to cause an arcane explosion on target would visually look cool but a reduced range for explosion seems fair

EDIT: Legendary to fix Arcane Blast usage, while limiting the need for such drastic scaling. Arcane blast gets an additional 10% chance to proc Clear-casting and Clear casting can stack an additional (or 2) times. So on conserve phase u can proc clearcasting more and get some more filler damage and save more mana! if missiles is nurfed the 20% haste buff for clearcasting makes it still worth and then Arcane blast has synergy with the Clearcasting Conduit! Work similar to the pvp talent for bonus stacks but the buff to clearcasting proc means u can proc more than simply spamming missiles! bring some class synergy back!!!

1 Like

Mana loss probably has more to do with Secondary stat reduction, mastery to be specific.

In this week’s Shadowlands build, Mirrors of Torment has been updated with new functionality that grants you Brain Freeze, Fire Blast cooldown reduction, or Mana when a mirror is consumed based on your spec.

Mirrors of Torment will also now proc from auto attacks, but can only occur once every 6 seconds.

The goal with these changes is to give Mirrors of Torment a little more consistent PvE throughput and not just being a niche PvP ability for those Mages looking to join the Venthyr.

11 Likes

Hi, just to confirm, is it supposed to provide mana when triggered rather than a clearcasting proc for Arcane?

Thanks :slight_smile:

10 Likes

Thank you! This is awesome and makes it MUCH more competitive. The only complaint I can really have is that it sort of forces me to get a wand.

Well good news for you is that I think you’re misinterpreting the change. A mirror of torment will now be triggered when the ENEMY auto attacks (with a 6 second cooldown) or casts a spell. You do not have to auto attack as a mage ever xD

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You are 100% correct! Thank you. It’s exactly what I was hoping for from a change and then some. Migraine brain today @.@

2 Likes

How about Clearcasting or Arcane Charges instead of mana

17 Likes

While the change is good news, I can see this causing proc-munching (still a massive problem) for Frost if an enemy uses multiple abilities within a few seconds. Would be nice to see the 6 second (4 or 5 would be even better) internal cooldown apply to spells/abilities as well as auto-attacks.

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So far; I’ve really enjoyed all your changes. I don’t mind this one either, but we’ll have to see how it all plays out. Thanks for all the updates!

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Greetings!

I must say that I’m happy with this change. However I feel like Arcane Mage is already doing fairly well in regard to mana management. The others’ suggestion of making the mirrors grant clearcasting procs sounds more fitting to the current arcane needs.

Please take this into consideration.
Thanks!

9 Likes

So with Heroism/bloodlust utility being made into more of a significant deal in shadowlands with the nerfing of drums, I am curious as to why Mages are retaining Time Warp in its state and aren’t losing it. (Would honestly like to hear from a dev on this one for reasoning). There seems to be a large imbalance in terms of endgame group utility present with this now.

Many classes have had abilities removed as result of intruding on mage class fantasy (looking at you displacer beast / gust of wind). Mages having a bloodlust directly intrudes on my class fantasy. Furthermore, I see it as honestly kind of broken with mage possessing TWO types of endgame utility in Time Warp + Arcane Intellect. No other class/spec in the game has that. With drums being nerfed, I see this as way too strong on the utility front.

Imagine if Demon hunters had Mystic touch phys debuff on top of having chaos brand magic damage debuff. Mage possessing two types of raid/party buffs makes them way too good compared to other ranged in terms of M+ especially as result… effectively being able to replace X class, while simultaneously bringing their own unique buff.

I would like to see Bloodlust being returned to being a Shaman + Hunter exclusive and have Mage group buffs reined in a bit. Time Warp + AI was fine with drums existing in their old state, however now it is too good and effectively can make mage a must-have for M+ especially, and able to take up multiple roles in raids also.

Especially in group compositions in M+ with 2 caster DPS mage will basically become a must have since again you’re getting two group buffs with 1 class. This is quite concerning.

6 Likes

How about no.

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Is there any plan to make Arcane Missiles count as 1 spell for radiant spark. It feels nice as Frost when you can flurry and not munch all 4 spells. I feel that arcane missiles should get the same treatment.

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Then it occupies the same design space as Fire Blast and defeats the purpose of separating Ignite spreading from Fire Blast. You’d just use Phoenix Flames rotationally and be unable to spread Ignite when you want.

Making Phoenix Flames not consume Heating Up would be ideal since they want us to be able to choose when to spread ignite.

Is it intended that Alter Time ending cancels your cast? I feel like it shouldn’t.

2 Likes

Hi Team,
I really like the changes its going in the right direction but for Arcane I would suggest a clearcasting proc instead of mana. I would also ask to have some one look at the new talent Arcane Echo to maybe increase the damage and area of effect. I think its a great spell but its hard to cleave on to other targets unless they are almost on the target for Arcane Echo keep up the good work guys.

4 Likes

Perhaps I should have worded it better, I was running on a few hours of sleep. I meant if they were to make ignite a passive spread that capped and having PF be 100% crit again would be nice or not consume heating up as it currently does just feels awful and punishing when it consumes as you spread

1 Like