take a peek at the achieves, raid progress and m+ rating of ppl with these wild takes. its very telling lol, not surprising that oversimplification is so appealing to some
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You know, it’s really funny you assume people post on the accounts they play on…You know that people can like look up your other characters? It’s creepy as all get out. I keep this account around just to post on here, and to store spare characters for gold farming.
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for sure my guy, you’re a mythic raider with 3.6 io and the cooked take is unrelated
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As someone else said “Why revert it so quickly after a few knee-jerk reactions? Tonight was the first chance I got to even try it out. It was different, but I was getting to like it. I can’t be the only one.”
Definitely not the only one, me too!
If there’s an option to have a choice node between an active or passive iteration, that would be best! Thanks!
I actually really dig this idea in theory. Gives a nice buffer to actually get value with all the other abilities going on without feeling like the clocks running down to capitalize on the window.
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Please look again at MM hunter. I know I won’t get Legion MM hunter back but at least make it easier to talent for AOE and still be able to do ST damage.
- get rid of Trick Shots and if you love it so much, at least make it trigger at 2 targets.
- Trick Shots and Multi-Shot should be baseline or at least 1 talent.
- bake the current 2pc tier set into the spec or make it a talent. No one ever liked this MS-RF-MS-Aim alternating playstyle
- no one ever take Chimera Shot, why is it still a talent?
- Improved Steady Shot should either be baseline or also add 200-300% damage to Steady Shot. It feels so bad if you cast it.
- Deathblow/Killer accuracy/Razor Fragments aren’t worth 3 talent points
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I am fully cleared mythic, but not on surv for what it’s worth. Tank main, and I’ve been trapped in a demon hunter all season because of it. Praise Blizzard for those sigil nerfs, I might finally get to play something else for key pushing. But survival is my main DPS alt, and I love it to bits.
Thank you for the incredibly quick turnaround!
The Flanking Strike that was released on Tuesday truly did not fit at all. It clashed with everything in the Survival spec. Replacing Kill Command with a spell that does the exact same thing, but slightly more damage, was not the move. Replacing a ranged ability for a spell that charged you into melee was not the move, for both PvE AND PvP. Replacing Kill Command with an ability that breaks the entire Pack Leader tree and a large majority of the Survival tree was no good.
The iteration of Flanking Strike that we had last week, which is the version that is returning, was incredible. It felt VERY good having a powerful focus spender that also generated Tip stacks. I loved having the ability to press it when I wanted and also have a charge independent of Kill Command. Pressing Flanking Strike with this version was very satisfying. It had its own identity and was not trying to be a budget Kill Command.
I have been playing Survival since the melee revamp in Legion and hunter since TBC. I raid at a high level with this spec. I’ve put in more hours than I would like to admit into Survival on the TWW beta to test interactions, builds, and bugs. The version of Survival that we had last week may be one of the best iterations of any hunter spec I have played. It flowed incredibly well, was very rewarding for focus and tip management, and made sense. There were not too many buttons and now that Death Chakram is gone, this is even more true.
This is an excellent return. Thank you.
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Pretty much a perfect summary of how I feel. Last week’s version was great!
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Personally, i think that removing chakram was a huge win. Frankly, buttons that are just 30s+ cds that do nothing but damage and have no further interactions might as well not exist. Prior to the reworks, i would have also included both explosive shot and flanking strike in that bucket. Explosive shot is a bit more interesting now due to the additional resets we have on it.
I prefer last week’s FS to this week’s, but honestly that’s mostly because the passive version didnt benefit from all the KC talents and was just KC-but-worse every third press.
Regarding the duality of Tip of the Spear vs Mongoose Fury, i agree that its definitely an odd and polarizing interaction. With fury also being rolled back to the previous iteration (as in, back to no-refresh/more stacks), is there perhaps an option to tie them together in such a way that you want to use both where you can?
for example:
a) Mongoose bites that consume tip of the spear extend mongoose fury by a small amount (like, a gcd or so, pending tuning). Base duration of mongoose fury adjusted as required.
or perhaps
b) Kill command itself extends mongoose fury as in a), if a) is deemed to be too unintuitive.
I would also consider as an alternative increasing the power of each stack of fury, rather than the total stack count, and then increasing the focus cost (and potentially base damage) of mongoose bite somewhat, in such a way that you can still “make the most” of dumping focus on MB while not needing to spend quite as many GCDs in order to do so.
I’m not likely to be happy with any iteration of flanking strike that isn’t tied into the core of the rotation in some way, so if it’s just going to be another thoughtless press-on-cd button, just get rid of it.
Hell you could even go the route of consuming Tip reducing flanking strike CD, and flanking strike extending mongoose fury, or something, though that might be a little convoluted. Now i’m really just spitballing, though, so i’ll leave it there
Edit: Fury of the eagle is a garbage ability in its current iteration. Can you either make this channel 2-3x faster or just make it Not a channel a la rushing jade wind such that you can do other actions during it? Long channels on a melee feels absolutely awful, especially when it just results in a bunch of other buttons waiting to be pressed.
I am very happy with the revert to Flanking strike as leak mentioned above with a great summery. I am also glad to see mongoose bite being reverted from a flat maintenance buff to (imo) one of the more unique mechanics that survival has which isn’t present in other specs in the game.
At this point the only things I can really ask for is making some changes to Fury of the eagle. I personally feel like when I’ve went through the whole talent tree and I have say 3 talents left and I can opt to take fote and it’s capstone for dungeon content, and still end up just shoving those points into passive damage amps in the middle section of the tree just feels wrong to me.
Looking forward to seeing hunter hero talent pass in the near future and cleaning up some of the bug fixes.
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You and me both man. Legion MM was awesome. Absolutely based takes.
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Amazing Thank you so much for these reverts.
Here are some suggestions that I can give to help make survival the best it can be.
Mongoose Bite and Mongoose Fury problem.
I think the easy solution is to change bloody claws, which is already a bad and disliked talent, to this:
Kill Command and Wildfire Bomb extend the duration of Mongoose Fury by 1 second.
This will help out with the GCD problem and the static mongoose fury windows to make it a little bit more smooth.
Flaking Strike problem.
Last week, flanking strike was really good; the spell felt good to press, and it was great, the revert is much appreciated. Something that can help is to swap around kill command and raptor strike/mongoose bite cleave talents, let me explain.
Exposed Flank makes Kill command cleave for 10s If this is swap with raptor strike this will help in 2 target cleave situations when you don’t want to take/use butchery.
subsequently
In Merciless Blows, swap the Raptor Strike/Mongoose Bite to Kill Command. This will help out a lot with the aoe rotation to make it more of a straight line.
This can go even further by changing how Viper’s Venom works. Instead of you shooting a poison arrow while raptor strike (that doesn’t make any sense), it can be you shoot a poison arrow while you kill command. This will be more thematic, and it can help to spread serpent sting from range and to also spread serpent sting in aoe situations easier.
Other Suggestions
- Ruthless Marauder: it should be a 1 point talent not only becasue Fury of the Eagle is weak but also for symmetry purpose (is the only 2 point talent in that row)
- Bombardier: instead of reseting bombs change it to increase the damage of your next 2 bombs in 100%
- Bring back Steel Trap and get rid of Scout’s Instincts or Kindling Flare those are useless anyways
- Replace Binding Shackles for Resilience of the Hunter, same 10% DR the difference is you need to press feign death instead of using a cc in an enemy
I also going to say i was a doomer, but after all of these changes im full of hopium ty hunter dev or whoever is responsible.
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As a casual enjoyer of Survival I would like to request a choice talent between old mongoose bite and this new iteration. The old version, stacking to 5 but not refreshing can offer some skill expression and bigger damage windows for those looking for that. The new version, in my opinion, feels and fits far better into the new Kill Command centric gameplay. I was able to test it today and the flow of the spec felt incredible with the balancing act of generating Tip of the Spear stacks, spending them before capping, maintaining Mongoose Fury, and ensuring your focus and Wildfire bombs don’t cap. I never liked the way the old Mongoose Fury would pull you away from the other things happening in your spec so that you can maximize a few MB casts. The reduction in button bloat and the added synergy between the spells we have now feels really good.
As for Flanking Strike, I definitely get that the inability to control when you get the leap and it not inheriting Kill Command interactions isn’t good. I did like how you got it more frequently in the rotation with how much you press Kill Command and since the button would change you’d get a good indicator on when you are going to get double Tip of the Spear so you could plan that. If they go back to separate abilities, perhaps Kill Command could reduce the cooldown on Flanking Strike or give it a chance to reset its cooldown. And perhaps more of the Kill Command synergy talents could work with Flanking Strike as well.
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Personally I have no problem with either of the rework (FS and Mongoose)
The old mongoose bite should retire already, from my point of view, reverting it is not what I want to see. Before this week’s update, having the old mongoose fury, it didn’t play a big roll on ST but required more attention as it’s unique 14 seconds window. Specifically with out current tree, even on ST mongoose/raptor serves no more than a filler so we don’t cap our focus, it’s not anymore survival’s major damage output on single target fight. The new mongoose fury is just fine all one has to care is use at least once in 10 seconds, which is pretty trivil and not likely one is going to let it end. Mongoose bite no longer worth to have mechanic as mongoose fury as it’s really not doing a lot of damage which makes mini maxing meaningless (which I believe is whole point of mongoose fury, how do one arrange their rotation is the key, but why do you even bother if no matter how much effort you put in it will only be like 1% difference).
As for flanking strike, I have done some 10+ with that, and didn’t run in any issue. FS itself is doing 5% of overall on single target, I do like that. And I don’t really care if it’s replacing kc or no, the only reason I would press kc is I want tip of the spear for next ability, and FS gives me another one for free, nothing bad about it. The leap may occasionally be tricky, from that point of view having it separete should be fine? But please do not revert it to where it has a 30seconds cooldown, that one sucks. Make it separate and like only usable after you cast 3 kill command or something like that should work.
Thank you for the excellent news, Kaivax!
I can’t lie, I was really having a hard time with the change to Flanking Strike, but seeing your exceedingly quick response to the Survival community’s feedback has me again feeling almost too excited for Survival in the upcoming expansion.
Your communication on these ongoing changes is refreshing to see, especially today’s insight into the why some changes occur. I greatly appreciate you making a point of keeping us in the loop as these builds progress.
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I’ve been thinking about the ‘button bloat’ issue and I have some problems with the way its currently being tackled. Upon reflection I don’t think Death Chakram was bloat, it wasn’t cast too often, it had some skill expression for proper usage with the damage amp it gave, and it was a nice little injection of focus going into that damage amp.
In a slightly different context I touched on this in a previous post but I feel it needs reiterated - a button that I wholeheartedly believe is button bloat is Hunter’s Mark. I’m certainly not advocating for its complete removal, but this is a button that is NEVER fun to press. You do it once at the start of a raid fight and its just another ‘launch sequence’ button , to quote the blue post on Death Chakram. Alternatively in dungeon content its basically useless outside of tyrannical bosses. A GCD for a 5% damage bonus on targets over 80% health SINGLE TARGET means that personally I am never pushing this button in a dungeon, but its something that I should be doing to play optimally.
That to me is the definition of button bloat. Imagine a Monk having to specifically cast Mystic Touch or a Demon Hunter cast Chaos Brand, let alone if they had to do it to every target individually and it could only be applied to a single target at a time. They would rightfully lose their minds.
This is rapidly turning into a rant on why Hunter’s Mark should passively apply with a spec’s main ability but that’s why I feel its current form is the kind of button bloat that should actually be looked at.
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Dang that was some prompt feedback.
Thanks for the feedback and the hard work as well as for reverting Flanking Strike and Mongoose Bite.
Did not particularly like potentially yeeting myself into death every 3 Kill Commands, not to mention losing a controllable gap closer.
To those who don’t like Mongoose Bite and Mongoose Fury stacking to 5 and not refreshing: You can just not spec into it and use Raptor Strike instead and do comparable damage in most content save for perhaps Single Target Raid Encounters.
Been on beta since launch. Late CE tier hunter.
BM:
I don’t understand the point of the kill shot proc talent and serpent sting for BM. They don’t work off of our pets which is what BM should be about. For me to get a super cool talent that summons fenryr, I have to take this terrible feeling talent that doesn’t benefit from my mastery. It just kinda "does it’s thing sometimes."I know I could take serpent sting to keep another dot for basilisk collar but having to refresh that is going to feel terrible. If I wanted to play a dot class, I’d play affliction or spriest. This ain’t it. For what it’s worth, basilisk collar is very solid on single target. Choosing between being a 1 min ST spec with bloodshed or a 2 min class with Call of the Wild feels very bad. The barbed shot reset talent on auto attack critical hits (I think it’s called wild call) after the last talent juggle is now completely in the middle of nowhere. I can’t realistically take that AND get the huntmasters call talent. I would prefer the removal of the kill shot and serpent sting talents and replace them with more per aligned talents. Explosive Shot feels the same way. It’s doing about 4% of my overall damage in keys because it doesn’t benefit from my mastery.
Anytime there’s an ability that I’m doing and my pet isn’t, it feels incredibly bad to press. Finally, kindred spirit has no place in this tree. It’s never taken, is two whole points, and we’re already overflowing with focus.
For mm, we need something for 2 targets. If MM’s single target is worse or not comparable to BM/sv, then the only time we’d run it is where we’d need the high aoe burst it can consistently utilize trick shots on 3 targets (Larodar, council in amirdrassil are great examples of this, and primal council in vault). Chimera Shot isn’t worth taking because if I’m in a ranged role and I have to pick between BM and MM for a 2 target fight, I’m going to pick BM (more survivability, consistent 2 target cleave even if it’s not as good as other classes). I’d suggest making trick shots trigger as long as multi shot hits at least two targets. Furthermore, there can’t be such a disparity for aoe and st. The st profile feels terrible when I’m in an aoe setup.
Finally, I truly believe wild spirits could come back in some form as a cool down for MM. If we’re going to be target capped, let us at least zug every 2 min. The sepulchre playstyle of MM felt so good alongside the tier set bonus.
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Tying more interactions to Kill Command I think will get really tricky really fast, there’s already more than 10 interactions on that single button 
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