Feedback: Hunters

Yeah I don’t really get the suggestion, let utility and damage spells be seperate

24 Likes

Heeey! Just some thoughts on class tree:

  • Swap Rejuvenating Winds with Improved Traps : This will make the tree more homogenous, having a “trap” and a “defensive” path, and not forcing someone to pick defensive when utility is needed or vice-versa.

  • Binding Shackles currently is in a terrible state, having a damage reduction AFTER the binding shot ends feels impratical, we need anticipate the damage at least 8s before it hapens.

  • Artic Bola cool idea, but feels bad having to pick a snare to unlock Explosive Shot, even if is tunned with higher damage, not always i need a snare (eg. bosses), but i might want explosive shot. (maybe swap both?)

  • Hydra’s Bite is it intentional not work from Serpentstalker’s Trickery?

  • Sentinel’s Wisdom Nature’s damage reduction feels too niche, hunters are already one, if not, the most squishy class, it make sense to make flat 10% DR.

  • Also, just a friendly reminder, where’s our utility? :smiley:

Have a nice weekend, everyone.

16 Likes

Mostly because outside of PvP that ability is dead and un-used.
Rather than adding fully new abilities for the sake of extra buttons, I think that actually using them is more interesting.

1 Like

And yes going to chime in with another vote for better Utility. Evoker has access to BOTH battle rez and bloodlust.

I’m not advocating they shouldn’t have it, but it’d really be great if Hunter could regain some of it’s lost utility. It’s already very hard to get into dungeon and raid groups as Hunter. I have often spent an hour getting denied and I’m trying to get into low keys or normal raids even when I have previous relevant experience.

We need a reason for groups to say ‘yeah we need a hunter’. Not more reasons for groups to scoff and ignore.

That aspect of the fox sounded good.

4 Likes

Guess you never ran junkyard, it’s a niche spell doesn’t mean it needs to be added to make dps. Not every spell needs to be used at all times, especially something as niche and really uninteresting as flare.

7 Likes

Hello Hunters,

Some quick notes on changes coming in a future build:

Class Tree:

  • Hunter’s Agility is being changed from a 2-rank node down to 1 rank, and will reduce area of effect damage taken by 6%.
  • Improved Traps and Rejuvenating Winds will have their positions switched.
  • Note on Arctic Bola: The snare value is 20%, and should not be changing per rank, the tooltip showing 50/100% snare per rank is incorrect. This is not intended to be a big snare or something you are relying on to kite enemies around.

Marksmanship:

  • Windrunner’s Guidance is having its design changed to: Each Wind Arrow has a 3% chance to grant you 10 sec of Trueshot.
    • This includes Wind Arrows from either Aimed Shot, or from Windrunner’s Barrage below Wailing Arrow.

Survival:

  • Ferocity lowered from 2 ranks down to 1.
  • Intense Focus lowered from 2 ranks down to 1.

Thanks for your continued feedback and testing.

P.S. I hope you all have a nice weekend every week, even if I don’t post that here.

62 Likes

Hey Nimox, Hope you have a good weekend too.

Is there any word on reworking Sentinel Owl and its subsequent choice node? They just feel too niche and too underpowered to ever see use outside of a pvp scenario, and they do nothing to actually close the gap that hunters have of solely providing damage to a raid, leaving our raid spot in a lot of scenarios down to tuning.

7 Likes

Thank you for this. I was 100% just looking at this not 20 minutes ago wondering why Rejuvenating Winds is locked behind Tar Trap of all things.

This… intrigues me even more. I’m going a full Wind Arrow build (already have it mapped out lol), and this makes it more appealing.


And thank you for working on lowering the amount of multi-point nodes.

I still wish you guys would address the fact Survival has a 3 point endcap talent. No other spec in the game has a 3 point endcap. Only 1 other spec has a multi point endcap (unless more have been added since I looked) and they have 1, so why does Survival have two multi-point endcaps in this case?

The Fury of the Eagle Endcap talent still confuses me. With a 45 sec CD on FotE and the fact you can’t cast during FotE, that means at most, even in optimal situations where you are AoEing and get a ton of crits, you’ll only really get the one reset. (two if you are specced into 2 charges of WFB).

Which just calls into question why go that route if you can just grab Coordinated Assault, Coordinated Kill, and Bombadier for the same amount of points?

Ruthless Marauder just seems like a significantly weak endcap talent, especially for 3 points, doesn’t it? I could understand it being 1 point with like, 50% and 1 second, but 3 points just feels so weak. Even being a 2-pointer where the second point allows you to cast WFB while FotE is casting would make more sense?

Likewise, I also don’t understand Deadly Duo not just being a straight up 1 point talent?

You too Nimox. :slight_smile:

7 Likes

Happy to see another post! Not a large post but no complaints with any of these changes.

However, I think I can speak for the entire hunter community when I say where is the communication regarding raid utility for hunters? So many other classes that were lacking raid utility have been given it, leaving us hunters wondering where ours is. Sentinel’s Wisdom is sad and needs to be re-designed, or something else entirely needs to be given to hunters.

Additionally, while I understand the team isn’t going to exclusively lean on community feedback when it comes to decisions around talents, the feedback regarding Nesingwary’s Trapping Apparatus and Binding Shackles have been nothing but negative. Nesingwary’s is a complete waste of 2 points given that it has been nerfed from its current version. Also, what happened to keeping utility as utility and not utility as damage? Even worse, it also is a requirement to take Steel Trap, which is an ability that has been instrumental in PvP.

Binding Shackles has been a talent for who knows how long and no one has ever taken it. Why would anyone need a damage reduction after using Binding Shot/Intimidation/Hi-Explosive Trap. Those abilities are meant to create separation - what good is a damage reduction after I have used these abilities to get away from my target?

The Windrunner’s Guidance change is great - hopefully it is balanced well enough such that it is an enticing pick for a capstone talent. Assuming 2 points in Legacy of the Windrunners (15% proc chance for 6 Wind Arrows), that is a ~2.5% proc chance per Aimed Shot/Rapid Fire which seems incredibly low.

If this is combined with Windrunner’s Barrage and Wailing Arrow hits 2+ targets, each Wailing Arrow provides a 36.7% chance to proc Trueshot. That is better but still pretty low given Wailing Arrow has a minute cooldown.

I’d much rather this be “Every X Wind Arrows procs Trueshot for X seconds”. A low proc chance on top of a low proc chance is a recipe for disaster.

59 Likes

Podh, I wish I could give you some sort of MVP award for all the feedback you’ve given over the Alpha and now Beta cycle. You and Nimox make a pretty good team

13 Likes

Absolutely loving all the feedback updates!

I realize this kind of feedback may not be exactly what your team is looking for but as someone who use to play a Hunter in Vanilla, one Class-fantasy element of Hunters that I have missed has been the dual-wielding combat.

Now, I realize implementing dual-wield mechanics into Survival (2 x fast 1 handers vs 1 2 hander) would be a nightmare but any chance it can be considered for strictly Transmog purposes?

There is a precedent with Legion Artifacts having their weapon type ignored into multiple weapons:

Holy Paladins can turn their 1-hander and shield into the Silverhand

Druids can turn their polearm or stave into the Claws of Ursoc/Fangs of Ashmane!

Elemental Shamans can turn their Staff into their Fist and Shield!

So is there a way for that technology to allow Hunters to turn their survival spear/staff into 2 1-handers at their discretion?

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This iconic class fantasy is something that is desperately missing from the Hunter kit, especially considering how most of the main Hunter NPC’s in lore also all dual-wield in some form.

Nathanos dual-wielded his axes:

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Sylvanas dual-wielded her Mawsworn daggers:

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Tyrande dual wields glaives (which lets face it, are in no-way a Demon Hunter only weapon but that’s for another thread):

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Allowing Hunters to choose whether they can mog their weapons into 2 1-handers or a 2-hander would be a massive win for the Hunter Community and bring back that iconic class fantasy that has long been lost.

I realize this is something that may not be possible for launch but please consider it for 10.1. Class Fantasy right now is so archaically restricted due to weapon transmog restrictions and I really think there’s a huge benefit in re-evaluating many of these restrictions and letting some classes TRANSMOG (not physically wield) new weapons types. (Priests using Swords, Mages using Maces, Paladins using Staves, etc)

33 Likes

Quick clarification here, the proc chance is actually 25% right now. There’s leftover data on the spell. We will get the tooltip updated and just include the proc chance.

21 Likes

So the snare is just for flavor and so you can use the name bola? That’s lame. What is the point of a 20% snare for 3 seconds :joy:

7 Likes

That it’s flavor.

Once again, you take that talent for damage. The snare is just a small bonus flavor.

12 Likes

Probably my biggest feedback on Hunter has been an issue for some time (and yes I know it has been likely brought up before, but it is a massive issue).

When playing as Marksmanship it is one of the most engaging and fun playstyles of hunter I have played yet, and the core fantasy of not having to play with a pet is absolutely unique in the game (especially as Warriors or Rogues don’t have a ranged sniper spec) and it feels really bad having to summon a pet just to get a bloodlust for the group.

I can see 2 solutions:

  1. It would be really fantastic for hunters (even if they can’t change it) be able to have a talent which allows them to choose which buff from which tree ahead of time that they’re able to use. This would allow the use of bloodlust without a pet, while also keeping to the amazing and core fantasy of the spec.

  2. Add some sort of “beast cleave” for the pet so it’s much less useless when you have to summon it (maybe less powerful than BM?). This is not my preferred option as it really takes away from the fantasy of the spec and makes it unique among the 3 specs.

I can see in the Beta that we have Survival of the Fittest as an option in the base hunter tree which feels redundant as then when you have no pet as Marksmanship you get survival of the fittest as an additional ability on the same cooldown (with the talent 40% instead of 20%), perhaps that node could be changed to a choice node that allows you to choose as Marksmanship the buff that you get from the pet so that way the core fantasy of Marksmanship as a sniper remains and you don’t feel forced to use the pet in higher end content.

8 Likes

Is there any way you’ll make Steel Trap a more viable option? Since it’s locked behind Nesingwary’s Trapping Apparatus which by itself is not a very powerful effect, you’re essentially using up 3 talent points to pick up a talent that only really has a purpose in PvP.

It would also make sense for Steel Trap to be more accessable, kinda like Sentinel since it’s more of an utility spell, rather than a damaging spell.

At the moment, if you want to pick up Serpent Sting + Latent Posion + Death Chakrams and Explosive Shot you’ll get put in this awkward situation where you only have 1 point remaining with no other talent to put it into other than (1/2) in Serrated Shots. Having Steel Trap as an option to pick here would make the talent tree feel more complete in my opinion.

Another thing that I’m wondering, is Survival going to get their version of Serpent Sting? The one that costs 20 focus and lasts 12 seconds and does more damage. Or is all three specs going to have the same version.

And just to be sure, Concussive Shot and Scatter Shot will be usable as Survival with a two-hander equipped right? :flushed:

15 Likes

A better solution would be to have artic bola be a choice on the binding shackles node, where targets are snared by 50% for 8s after binding shot/scattershot breaks. You know, a true Bola. No damage effect just a snare. It would also be easier to make or reuse a spell effect for that than what we currently have, which looks like a curved tiny snowball.

And then, have whatever damage proc talent that is really being desired here be something related to explosive shot. Cluster grenades or something along those lines. It would be cool if MM or BM could get something akin to survival grenades, even if its just a proc. The damage portion of the spell could work the same as the current version of artic bola only the spell effect could just be a miniature explosive shot.

I dont understand the logic of artic bola preceding explosive shot, if there is any. The spell right now also looks dumb. Make it a cluster grenade and its a cool talent.

5 Likes

Ok. here’s an idea. Revamp Hunter’s Mark into a raid wide dps or utility cooldown.

Have it be a choice node where one choice is Hunter’s mark now has xxx cooldown and xxx effect on single target by your party/raid. Maybe a large crit damage bonus or something for xxx duration.

Other choice makes hunters mark into a wide area effect where mobs in the targetted area take xxx debuff by your party/raid for xxx seconds.

4 Likes

Did some further testing with pets, any chance we can get Fortitude of the Bear on a shorter cool down? On a spirit beast it isn’t so bad having a long cool down, but other pets are at a huge disadvantage.

I’m not sure if this is a bug or not, but MM seems to be completely unable to get Fortitude of the Bear unless it has a pet out