Feedback: Hunters

I’ll give some prelinimary feedback from my playtest today

  1. Love the spell effect change for death chakram. Much better fit and pays homage to the original chakram
  2. All the new talents feel good. Deathblow is a great spell. Is it intended to unlock both charges of killshot? I was able to use it twice whenever it procd. The only downside is that if I get a deathblow proc, it used up my charges for when a mob reached below 20% and I found most of the time it would be on cooldown.
3 Likes

Any chance Trailblazer could be changed to be disabled when you take damage instead of when you deal damage? It’s pretty rare to not deal damage for 3 seconds in PvE combat, and if it is the case then you’re probably already pretty sad because you’re running around doing nothing. As-is, this will probably be a nice talent for low-level hunters who don’t have a mount yet, or for people farming old content indoors where they can’t mount up, but that seems unnecessarily niche to me…

This is pretty much how Aspect of the Cheetah worked in WoD with the glyph, btw. Rather than dazing you, the glyph just disabled Aspect of the Cheetah when you took damage.

edit: The main point here is that I don’t think too many people will take Trailblazer because they actually want to take Trailblazer, but rather because it’s the most efficient path to things they actually want/the alternatives are equally unattractive.

26 Likes

I don’t know if you saw, but Death Chakram does have a new animation now. I know Maizou was asking about this as well.

Even as a fan of Maldraxxus and the old spell FX I quite like this one as well.

25 Likes

Beast Mastery:
The BM tree needs some help. Barbed wrath needs to be made accessible no matter which combination of capstone talents you’re going for. Having it in the center directly under BW would be my best guess.

Wild Call should also be a lot earlier in the tree, probably in the place of Kindred Spirits or Training Expert. This is one of the only talent that helps us maintain 3 stacks of Frenzy, any good BM build will want to take this talent so having it earlier in the tree would help a lot.

Class tree:
I’m repeating myself here but it would be nice to see the Kill Shot reset talents moved to the class tree instead of having the same talent in every spec tree. Its a very fun talent and could take the place of unpopular talents like Nesingwarys/Steel trap.

38 Likes

Dueling with warriors has made me come to realize hunters could use a bit more passive or active healing. Its like fighting conversion dks from MoP all over again.

Is it possible to bring back spirit bond in the class tree? Or an active like mending bandages? It would certainly fill the gaping hole that will be felt when craven strategem is no longer in our arsenal come dragonflight.

16 Likes

It goes without saying that the team has done a phenomenal job with the amount of communication and iterative change to the Hunter trees, but it would be nice to see hunter spec trees receive changes similar to the ones the Unholy DK tree received this week.

I am no Unholy expert, but the spec went from 34 → 40 nodes and all of its 3 point nodes were reduced to 2 points at most. Regardless of how these new talents are received, I view this as a huge step in the right direction and hope a similar design approach is considered for Hunters. I think there have been plenty of great suggestions for each spec regarding talents that could be added, whether they’re entirely new or returning abilities/traits/conduits from previous expansions.

As it stands, BM has 35 nodes, SV 36 nodes, and MM 38 nodes. With this upcoming Unholy change (and assuming I’ve counted correctly), the average number of nodes across specs is 38.9. Given that Hunters have more 2/3 point nodes than every other class by far, it is clear there is room to add additional talents, while keeping the overall cost of the tree the same by reducing some of the unnecessary multi-point talents (hello Crack Shot).

38 Likes

have a good weekend, everyone :smiling_face_with_tear:

16 Likes

Happy Friday, Hunters.

Several changes will be in your next build and we wanted to share what to expect. There are also several bug fixes, and some things that were previously marked NYI are now working.

Class Tree:

  • Survival Hunters: corrected a missing connection between Kill Command and Improved Mend Pet on the class tree.
  • Alpha Predator’s value has been lowered from 30%, to 15%.
  • Improved Traps now also lowers the cooldown of Hi-Explosive Trap.
  • Stampede now snares targets hit by 30%, and you and your pets gain 10% increased critical strike chance against targets hit by your Stampede.
  • Hunter’s Agility is once again Avoidance.
  • Camouflage no longer links directly to Improved Traps. The choice node below Survival of the Fittest now links to Born to be Wild.
  • New 2-point passive talent, Serrated Shots: Serpent Sting and your bleed damage is increased by 10/20% damage. This value increases to 20/40% against targets below 30% HP.
  • New 2-point passive talent: Arctic Bola - Aimed Shot/Cobra Shot/Raptor Strike/Mongoose Bite have a chance to fling a bola out at your target that bounces 2/4 times and deals increased damage per point. Targets struck by the bola are snared by 20% for 3 sec.

Beast Mastery:

  • The top of the Beast Mastery tree has been shuffled around a bit, and now starts with Cobra Shot rather than Barbed Shot.
  • Barbed Shot damage has been increased by ~75% (this is unrelated to talents and just a change to the ability)
  • Loaded Quiver has been removed. Barbed Shot is now 2 charges always.
  • Barbed Wrath is now 1 point, down from 2. It no longer affects Aspect of the Wild.
  • Wild Call has been reduced to 1 rank.
  • Call of the Wild’s cooldown has been increased to 3 minutes.
  • The Bloody Frenzy that adjusted Barbed Shot Frenzy stack generation has been removed.
  • New 1-point talent: Brutal Companion. When Barbed Shot causes a 3rd stack of Frenzy, your pet automatically uses their special attack (Bite/Claw/Smack) with increased damage.
  • Aspect of the Wild has been redesigned.
    • Aspect of the Wild now fires a Cobra Shot at your target and another nearby target. While Aspect of the Wild is active, Cobra Shot’s Focus cost is reduced by 10, and each Cobra Shot fires a Second Cobra Shot at a nearby target.
      • New choice node below Aspect of the Wild:
        • Each temporary beast summoned reduces the cooldown of Aspect of the Wild by 5 sec.
        • Cobra Shot damage increased by 30% while Aspect of the Wild is active.
  • Several talents shifted around past the first gate due to the above changes, but the tree’s structure is very similar.

Marksmanship:

  • Dead Eye now also reduces the cooldown of Kill Shot.
  • Windrunner’s Guidance has been lowered to 25% critical strike damage bonus.
  • New choice node below Wailing Arrow:
    • Wailing Arrow resets the cooldown of Rapid Fire and grants a charge of Aimed Shot.
    • Wailing Arrow now fires 5 wind arrows at your primary target, and up to 10 split between any secondary targets.
  • Crack Shot lowered to a 1-point talent.
  • Calling the Shots and Eagletalon’s True Focus have swapped spots.

Survival

  • Coordinated Assault, Spearhead, and related talents should be working.
  • Explosive Expert tooltip updated, it has no interaction with Kill Shot and is just some cooldown reduction to Wildfire Bombs.
  • Birds of Prey has been redesigned. Kill Shot now strikes up to 3 extra targets while Coordinated Assault is active.
  • New choice node against Birds of Prey: Bombardier. The cooldown of Wildfire Bombs is reset when Coordinated Assault is activated, and when it fades.
  • Guerilla Tactics increases the initial damage of Wildfire Bombs by 50%, down from 100%.
  • Fury of the Eagle once again grants 50% critical strike chance against targets below 20% HP.
  • Ruthless Marauder increases the HP threshold for increases critical strikes by 5% per rank rather than increasing critical strike chance.

Thanks for the continued feedback and testing.
And yes, have a nice weekend everyone!

82 Likes

Does this apply everytime we refresh Frenzy at 3 stacks, or only when we first reach the 3rd stack?

18 Likes

Thanks so much for the continued conversation! It’s always exciting to see these changes and active responses to our feedback. Many of us in the community are extremely grateful for this visible and frequent iterative process.

Really looking forward to seeing where this one is and if it bounces on the same target like Death Chakram does or if it needs other enemies around. Such a cool ability flavor-wise and really happy to see some passive damage talents on the general tree.

Really nice to see this as well! Should help with not immediately over-capping on critical as well as opening up more useful timings.


  • Currently wondering how the discussion regarding the group utility for Sentinel’s Wisdom/Perception is going

  • For future builds, I think it would be great to experiment with a 1-point node for Viper’s Venom to match Serpentstalker’s Trickery

  • Curious if there is any intention on doing something with Spear Focus and it’s overlap with Sweeping Spear.

  • Lastly, curious if there is any planned future single-target synergy with Flanking Strike to mirror the AoE synergy with Frenzy Strikes


All in all, the Hunter (and Survival Tree) is getting so crisp it speaks volumes at the level of further feedback we can provide. It’s looking like such a fantastic tree, I’m finding it hard to wait for Dragonflight to play with all these new options!

Thanks for making my week as always.

18 Likes

Thank you Nimox, you continue to amaze! Here’s some feedback:

Class Tree

It would have been nice to hear about the newest version of Sentinel’s Wisdom. I am hoping we can get an explanation as to why this talent is talent is specifically nature damage and if there are any considerations to changing this talent again. While not every class necessarily needs a unique raid/party buff, I fear this version does not do enough to swing the needle in terms of raid/party utility.

This is great. I hope this value will be higher than 4%, given monks are able to provide 4% for all of their allies for 2 points.

These are both awesome additions that I assume will provide some meaningful choice towards the bottom of the tree, especially for MM hunters.

I hope the team continues to look at Nesingwary’s (remember, let’s keep utility as utility and not as damage). Love that you continue to lean into execute damage for hunters as we have recently lacked in that area whereas historically hunters have had strong execute.

MM Tree

This is perfect. It allows MM hunters the option to talent for more execute damage, even if its at the cost of overall damage. I think the ability to do this is critical in making a good talent tree.

This is a solid step in helping reduce the high cost of the first third of the tree. A similar change to Precise Shots would be nice but that might be asking for too much (or at least change it so 1 point is 1 Arcane Shot, 2 points is 2 Arcane Shots).

Probably my favorite change today. Eagletalon’s True Focus really helps with Focus issues during Trueshot and it being more accessible is awesome. That being said, it is still very important to keep the balance between CtS and Unerring Vision such that one is not so dominant that it is taken in all scenarios. For example, if I am doing a raid encounter with a huge damage amp every minute (i.e. Sludgefist), Calling the Shots should be objectively better than Unerring Vision (assuming you can reduce the CD to 1 min obviously).

The first choice is fun and interactive with our rotation, although there are some concerns because, in general, giving MM another charge of Aimed Shot is not that beneficial (unless its free) due to our issues with Focus. This is what Trueshot did at the beginning of BfA and the extra charge of Aimed Shot was ignored. This might work better if it increased the damage of your next Aimed Shot/Rapid Fire.

Another interesting idea would be tying some sort of significant Focus boost to Wailing Arrow based on the number of targets hit. I know the team does not want MM hunters to stop using Steady Shot, but another way to generate a bunch of Focus at once would be really helpful and tying it to a 1 minute cooldown means you still need to use Steady Shot outside of Wailing Arrow.

The second choice is less exciting gameplay-wise but I love that it has synergy with Windrunner’s Guidance.

BM Tree

Regardless of how this turns out, this is undoubtedly a more interesting version of Aspect of the Wild compared to what we have now. The choice node that synergizes with the left side of the tree and Dire Beasts seems like it has a lot of potential.

As long as this works even if the pet already has 3 stacks of Frenzy, I think this is a fantastic addition. If it only works when going from 2->3 stacks, I am a bit worried because this would really only synergize with Bloody Frenzy (the choice node under Call of the Wild). A talent that encourages us to drop our Frenzy stacks in order to build up to 3 again would most likely never be worth it.

As is usually the case, reducing the number of possible points for a talent is well received.

SV Tree

I am sure we will see on Tuesday with Coordinated Assault (and Spearhead) properly working, but are pet Basic Attacks going to also reset the cooldown of Kill Shot? We are only able to cast 2 Kill Shots during Coordinated Assault. This seems rather weak as a capstone talent, but hard to judge since we have not been able to test it.

30 Likes

This would make sense - if Survival can have a ranged ability baseline despite using melee abilities, there’s no harm in giving MM/BM a melee ability baseline - we had one prior to legion at least.

Thank you for this. <3 Your posts are always so in depth. I was going to go through a deep dive of the talent points/multi points like this once all classes were up, but now that you did, I can just reference this. :smiley: It’s so weird how Devastation can spec into almost their entire spec tree, but then survival has half their tree empty at the end. X_X

This… intrigues me. Though I can’t imagine personally ever spending 2 points, as there’s not many times where I’d want to have a chance to snare 4 targets - I’d rather just use the extra talent point to grab Binding Shot or Tar Trap at that point. But for one target or cleave I could see using it as a 1 point talent.

It really depends on the damage, which we shall see when we can test it. (Though I might wait to test more hunter stuff until character copy is enabled. Lol. Getting a bit overwhelming to re-create multiple toons each week xD) Or if you made it so it increased in damage each time it bounced, like Death Chakram on live does.

This also sounds incredibly interesting. Though I feel like up to 15 wind arrows with 1 ability would be quite a bit of wind arrows flying around the battlefield, which I think you guys said was not something you wanted? Lol.

I keep hoping they’ll do what people have been asking - bring back Lacerate, but give it the effect of Flayed Shot. Every tic has a chance to reset CD on Kill Shot and make it free to cast at any %. It’d bring one of the main melee survival skills people identify with the spec back but with new life.

Making Raptor Strike baseline and putting Lacerate in its place would be a nice change.

Hell, this would be perfect too, cause then they could add a choice node below Carve/Butchery with Frenzy Strikes with a new ability to give Carve/Butchery the ability to spread Lacerate. (with a fixed amount of chance on procs lol)

This would also make our AoE something other than THROW BOMBS. lol.

10 Likes

Just finally had a chance to log in and check out the new hunter talent build. The recent changes are great for BM. Thank you wow developers. The first talent builds made it hard for BM to focus on pet based talents. I’ve been playing BM since BC and this recent build has me very excited. This build even solves my issue with Camouflage. When Dragonflight was announced I was hoping that Camouflage would have become a baseline ability in Dragonflight. I always pick it because of how much fun it is, but the previous builds I kept having to pick talents that I did not want and making it so I couldn’t use some of the pet focused talents. I’ll be curious to see how Survival and Marks hunters feel about this build.

Thanks Nimox!

Are you able to say if the team are planning (or at least considering) brining back pet spec swapping in 10.0?

No matter how good your talent trees are, I’m afraid that Hunter changes are still going to be a huge disappointment to a lot of players if the majority of pet families (including many great new ones!) are still going to be substandard and practically useless.

20 Likes

While it would be nice to be able to re-spec pets, I think you’re being dramatic, especially since even swapping specs, you’d still have the same “family” skills as before.

1 Like

I believe Holinka said no to this for 10.0, but this was a few months ago. I would really appreciate just being able to take a Wolfhawk and make it Ferocity, for example.

While this is cool synergy, I don’t think Survival needs more active buttons—I fear any more might push it into a sort of gritty button bloat situation.

5 Likes

Not really.

There’s zero reason to use something other than Ferocity in PvE and Cunning in PvP - Tenacity has no place, the passive health is less than the leech will give you from Ferocity.

Not allowing us to respec effectively makes 33% of our pets useless, and another 33% in each type of content.

And since you want specific abilities for PvP, that leaves us with like 5-10% of our pet choice for PvP.

Allowing us to respec harms no one. If anything, it’s harmful to the RP community - if I have a wolf that I want to consider motherly and protective like real life wolves - why am I not allowed to make her Tenacity? Etc.

It’s just Blizzard forcing a “We think all of species can only ever be ferocious” even though real life animals, there are outliers of every single type of animal. There are tigers and lions who befriend antelope, take care of them, etc. For example.

17 Likes

And the other defensive cd ?
I’m not sure what PvE content you’re talking about, but having another defensive cd is more valuable than w/e leech i’ll get over the course of the fight (not a lot).

At the same time ferocity has use if you need to have a blood lust available.

Now you can have an argument for Cunning, but tbh on some fights it’s very nice when pets have to cross decent distances.

And letting us re-spec them brings that number up to 15%.

I agree.

You can close your eyes and pretend that she is motherly and protective.

So as a result, yes really. The amount of people who are going to go “wow, hunters are still huge disappointment, despite playing great, because my pet in competitive setting looks different from how i want it to look” is extremely small.

3 Likes

That’s baseline in the talent tree in Dragonflight - not Tenacity. They haven’t announced a replacement ability I don’t believe yet. EDIT: You corrected me, and thank you for that. The new ability still doesn’t justify using Tenacity though.

There are 20 Cunning Families. There are 39 other families. Again, ~33%.

Of those 20 Cunning Families, the PvP ability you want is Mortal Wounds. For Cunning, that’s only Hyenas, Raptors, and Rodents. 3 of 59 families. 5%.

If we had the ability to respec, that would open the pool to 9 more pet families. 20%.

20% of pets being viable in PvP is a lot better than 5%.

Likewise, for PvE, it would bring the useable pets up to a staggering 100% from 33%.

It’s been a while since I looked on the alpha, but last I checked, we only have like 4 buttons for Single Target, so I don’t think it’d bloat it at all. If anything, I think it’d help fill it out.

Raptor/Mongoose, Kill Command, Flanking Strike, and Wildfire Bomb.

Depending on your talents, you may not need Serpent Sting, and the other talents like Explosive Shot, Death Chakram Stampede, etc. are considered optional by even the wowhead guide writer.

So although we can spec into more, just like we can on live, we only really have 4 abilities in our rotation right now - adding a 5th would be fine, IMO, and put us more in line with most other classes.

6 Likes

What is :
Fortitude of the Bear

According to your logic that number is already at least 66% (since Ferocity’s leech is great) and depending on some fights cunning is also good.

Point being, that I think switching pet “specs” is nice, and probably not as hard as some of the other pet suggestions. However, saying that “tons of ppl will keep dislike hunters if it’s not implement” is completely false.

1 Like