FEEDBACK: Hunter Class Changes

To reiterate two very important things that need to be constantly brought up:

  1. Remove hunters mark, remove it from the GCD, or remove the damage bonus from it.
  2. FIX WILD SPIRITS. Are you really going to let SL launch with one of our covenant skills outright broken?

It does not proc off kill command, trick shots, extra targets of wildfire bomb, beast cleave, or chakrams.

No other spec in the game has half their rotation not interact with their covenant skill when another spec of theirs has full interaction.

You “fixed” Resonating Arrow to be more competitive but you aren’t even acknowledging that wild spirits is bugged.

Lesser Bugs:

  1. Death Chakram can and will bounce to a dead target, depriving you of damage.
  2. In rare cases, Flayed Shot is not resetting the CD of Kill Shot. Me and others in this thread have experienced it.
18 Likes

Start a new character and try please. I’ve tried this on two different hunters in all 3 specs and Kill Shot is reset even if its on CD with Flayed Shot procs.

I cannot replicate your issue. And I don’t think anyone else has said it recently?

7 Likes

Hunter’s mark feels terrible in PvE. Please reconsider its purpose as a damage modifier and instead allow it to strictly be used to reveal targets without a cooldown. It has strong PvP applications, but the current version of HM with a 5% damage boost and a cooldown feels bad for both PvE and PvP content.

MM’s focus usage does not feel great to play with, especially during trueshot windows. There are plenty of suggestions in this thread, so I’m just echoing others in that the current costs make for awkward gameplay. I like some of the improvements made from BfA to SL, but the removal of old master marksman is keenly felt.

Hunter’s big utility in an M+ setting is heroism/lust. MM needs a way to activate heroism without losing access to the lone wolf buff. Several suggestions have included a WoD-style lone wolf, where we choose the pet ability we receive, or even that we retain the ability upon dismissing the pet. As it stands, MM is the only heroism/lust spec in the game to take a damage loss for providing this utility.

Switching gears to PvP, please reconsider scattershot and trap sharing a DR. They were on separate DR’s up until legion, at which point we had bursting shot’s disorient to substitute. We lost that disorient in BfA, resulting in MM not having a reliable way to set up full-duration traps, which is one of several reasons the spec suffered for the entirety of Bfa. On Beta MM has incredibly high burst damage; when this is reined in, I worry that the spec’s limitations in Bfa will become apparent. As an aside, I was really hoping to see scatter shot return baseline for MM. It’s been an iconic ability forever, so it feels weird to only be usable in PvP settings.

20 Likes

Unholy’s issue is how many GCDs it takes to trigger their CDs. Ours is already off the GCD, and it’s only 15s out of 120 anyway. The vast majority of our time, it’s fine. The issue is Trueshot more than the base rotation (though that has issues as well).

No. No it doesn’t. Removing the cast time reduces a 2.5s cast to a 1.5s GCD. You’ve saved 1 second. Removing Precise Shots is far more impactful on that issue.

Edit: to wit, making Aimed Shot instant reduces the commitment per cast from 8.6s to 7.6s, which increases the number of combos we can fit in per minute without capping from 6.97 to 7.89.

So one extra Aimed Shot per minute before we start capping.

Removing Precise Shots (even without removing Aimed Shot’s cast time) increases it to a bit more than 13 per minute, essentially completely removing the issue of capping entirely.

Also, while they did it in HFC with the set bonus, something tells me that Blizzard is absolutely dead set on Aimed Shot having a cast time. It fits the theme of the ability better (“Aimed” -> instant snapshot, wat?), and it serves as a contrast from Arcane Shot. If Aimed Shot were instant, they might as well remove Arcane Shot and remove the cooldown from Aimed Shot (or remove Aimed Shot and just have us fill with (a buffed version of) Arcane Shot). It degrades the entire rotation, tbh.

Precise Shots is the problem here, not the cast time on Aimed Shot. It’s also much more likely to see Precise Shots removed than it is the cast time on Aimed Shot, I’d wager.

5 Likes

You must be playing Survival wrong if this is your experience? You should never be capping on focus and kill command should always be on cool-down. I recommend taking another look and see what you’re doing wrong.

The Kyrian Covenant ability Resonating Arrow has received several changes in this week’s Shadowlands update. The radius has been increased, which should make it easier to use against targets who are near the pillars in maps such as Nagrand Arena. Additionally, when a target leaves the Resonating Arrow area, the effect that allows you to ignore line of sight towards them will last for an additional 4 seconds.

Flayed Shot has had a minor update that makes the bonus Kill Shot no longer cost any Focus, so it can be used more freely.

We’ve implemented many bug fixes to Death Chakram, and it will no longer chain to targets that are under crowd control effects that break upon taking damage.

The design of Wild Spirits has been simplified quite a bit. Now, when you cast the ability, all targets in the area now take some immediate Nature damage. Any ability you use, including Kill Command, will now cause up to 5 targets in the area to take extra Nature damage. This extra Nature damage will ignore targets that are currently affected by crowd control effects that break upon taking damage. There is no longer any difference in behavior when using single target versus area damage with this ability.

24 Likes

meh, how about fix the core specs rather than waste time on covenant tuning?

44 Likes

While these changes are nice in terms of attempting to balance the covenant abilities, can we at least get an answer as to why Hunter’s Mark is going to remain on the GCD?

57 Likes

Thank youuuuuuu

5 Likes

This. So much this.

I’m VERY grateful for the Wild Spirits fix, but hunters mark is the most pressing thing for most of us. And for it to be ignored still is so messed up.

Your very own blue post about the GCD states skills like hunters mark (non fancy damage boosting skills) shouldn’t be on the GCD.

44 Likes

It’s a serious shame the hunter class team didn’t include any rework of hunter pet families and address imbalance in family utility. The current single-spec system is almost universally hated for its lack of versatility. A system where every family has access to the ferocity spec plus one other would have been a huge improvement for small effort.

The high level requirement for Exotic Beasts also really ruins the joy of taming beasts while levelling in zones, as well as effectively preventing the taming some creatures in phased starting zones. It should be available to BM as a core ability at level 10. If it’s a power issue, their exotic abilities could be delayed and become accessible at a higher level.

20 Likes

That still doesn’t fix the focus starvation issues that MM faces when using it with Dead Eye. MM’s rotation simply does not tolerate adding too many extra Aimed Shot charges per minute.

I detailed it earlier in this post:

Basically, between Aimed Shot, the Precise Shots charges, and the Steady Shot casts to make up the focus deficit, the existing charges per minute we get already consume ~72% of our rotational time. Adding any additional charges via any mechanism other than haste only has that remaining 28% (17s per minute) to consume. That’s not quite enough for even two additional Aimed Shot charges per minute, and Dead Eye + Flayed Shot grants 2.25-3.75 per minute, depending on whether we’re also in execute range.

Focus tuning could in theory slightly help here, but the fundamental issue is with Precise Shots, not focus. Precise Shots means that every single Aimed Shot, rather than taking 2.5s and 35 focus to cast, instead costs 2.5 + 1.5*1.5 = 4.75s to “cast”, and 35 * 1.5*20 = 65 focus to “cast”. It literally doubles the time commitment required to complete the Aimed Shot combo and balance back out on focus.

What about corpses? What about it stopping dealing damage if you de-target the primary target? What about it flying to your new target (and dropping damage ticks en route) if you change targets while it is active?

That’s grand for PvP, but it doesn’t address the fact that the ability is severely undertuned for damage in single target. It is, however, now the only ability that scales into AoE, providing a huge difference in potency between the two gameplay areas.

Edit: correction, Wild Spirits scales in AoE up to 5 targets. Flayed Shot still does not for BM or SV, and only does for MM with Dead Eye, and then only somewhat. Death Chakram still does not scale in AoE, since while it hits multiple targets, the total damage done is identical in AoE as in ST.

9 Likes

Hunters Mark?

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This was the last round of changes before the pre patch. Our feedback was unfortunately ineffective. Hunter’s Mark will go live as is. We lost.

We’ll have to take up the cause on the live forums.

20 Likes

Hey guys how about those Survival changes / tuning…

Thoughts??

yup…

13 Likes

melee surv was a mistake, bring back rsurv

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  1. It’s far too close to the expansion release for that to even be a figment of practical.
  2. This thread is for feedback on SL changes.
  3. Melee SV needs some serious work, and tuning.

Like, I’m a fervent advocate of RSV returning, and an extreme critic of MSV (both the spec concept and the need for it in the first place), but even I’m starting to get annoyed at pleas for MSV work being hijacked by pleas for RSV. Give it a rest, at least in this thread. There’s plenty out on the hunter subforum you can complain in.

MSV hasn’t really seen anything done to it in SL. It’s still in an absolutely pitiful state. If the devs are going to stick to their guns on SV being melee, they need to give it the attention it requires. Y’all revamped it in Legion, and then revamped it again in BfA, and neither revamp really “stuck”. Unless y’all are just planning to cut your losses on it, give it the time it deserves and make it at least a playable and viable spec.

27 Likes

I’ve only tested it for a solid 5 minutes but I gotta say, the new Wild Spirits is seriously awesome, assuming it’s not just buggy. It now procs on things like Rapid Fire ticks/Volley/DoT effects, which I love. It doesn’t seem to have an ICD at all (?) right now, which may be a bug (lags my game a bit), but still.

My guess is this is unintended. Even without the new per-tick proc’ing behavior, at minimum I’m happy with the documented change, if only because it fixes things like its interaction with Trick Shots.

Some ad-hoc testing notes, in case it helps fix bugs (one way or the other). Not all-inclusive.

Multi-hit abilities that seem to proc it:

  • Rapid Fire
  • A Murder of Crows
  • Volley
  • Explosive Shot (technically a single hit ability but I think this procs for all targets hit which causes a nice fat FPS drop)
  • Stampede
  • Barrage
  • Trick Shots abilities (each target hit procs a new set of Wild Spirits?)

Multi-hit abilities that do not proc it:

  • Serpent Sting (procs once on cast)
  • Bloodshed
  • Wildfire Bomb
  • Soulforge Embers
1 Like

Please consider putting scatter shot on disorient.

19 Likes

I’m really hoping it’s not intended for things like Rapid Fire, Volley, MoC, etc. to proc it multiple times with their DoTs.

Wild Spirits is insanely overpowered with that functionality. This is only 15 seconds (so Wild Spirits window), but it’s ridiculous damage.

Look at the overall damage of Wild Spirits (75k). Now here’s a Survival Log of a 2 minute fight, no multi-hit abilities used, Wildfire Bomb and Serpent Sting tics don’t proc it: (nor does the kill command bleed talent, nor Shrapnel Bomb’s bleed, nor Volatile Explosion from the Poison Bomb)

25k. Much more reasonable. (It also shows how ridiculously broken the skill is as it is, it did 15k more damage in 15 seconds than I did with Mongoose Bite for 2 minutes) If the multi-hit abilities proccing it every hit is meant to be intended, they need to do 2 things: Make Wildfire Bomb, Serpent Sting, Kill Command Bleed Talent, Shrapnel Bomb Bleed, etc. proc it as well, otherwise Survival will be significantly worse off as Night Fae than the other 2 specs, and lower the damage of it.

It seems much more likely multi-hit skills aren’t supposed to proc it every hit. (And in some cases like Explosive Shot and AMoC, those are DoTs that proc it)


Also, it says “Every Ability You Use Against the Targets” so I assume it’s not intended, because it implies once per ability.

THe wording also needs work, because non-damaging moves like Hunter’s Mark, Silencing Shot, Tranquilizing Shot, etc. do not proc Wild Spirits, even though they are an ability you’re using on them. (though the better fix would be to make them proc it, so we don’t get punished for interrupting/dispelling while our cooldown is used)


As per the Hunter Discord: Flayed Shot has a weapon requirement of Bows, Crossbows, Guns, and Polearms. This means that hunters using a staff cannot use Flayed Shot.


And finally, Death Chakram is still bouncing to corpses.

EDIT: Here’s a PURE SINGLE TARGET log of a 2 minute Survival Fight:

It does about the same as Venthyr/Necrolord’s abilities, which means balance. It is superior in AOE though obviously. So I sincerely hope proccing so many times on things is unintended.

Chakrams triggers it 3 times, as well.

3 Likes