Feedback: Horrific Visions

The coalescing visions aren’t that difficult to gather. Also, the assault WQ in the zone that is currently under assault (both zones have the WQ but only one of the zones will be actively under assault at any given time) awards a Cache of the Black Empire.

Each time I’ve done this, the Cache has contained 1 Vessel for the horrific visions. So even if you don’t get enough coalescing visions from other dailies or assaults, you can most likely score 1 vessel from the assaulted zone WQ.

The mementos are much more difficult to gather, and those are what you need for the titanic research, as well as the Ramaladni’s Gift (25k) or the mount (100k). The greatest source for mementos seems to be the horrific visions, and the more you can kill inside, the greater amount of mementos you’ll receive at the end. So in the beginning, mementos gathering is looking to be real slow.

I’m a healer do I need to run this solo as dps to get anywhere? Also am I even required in a group? Or is it tuned to 5 dps?

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Group isn’t required but since death means automatic instance over, at first it’ll be best to run in a group so if someone dies they can be rezzed and continue.

I know during BlizzCon when the spoke of Torghast they said that could be completed with 5 dps if players wanted to, but I don’t remember them saying anything like that for this content. I would hazard a guess that the group content is still tuned as a normal group make up.

Quite certain you’ll need to go DPS if you intend to solo this.

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Unlocking the Horrific Visions takes quite awhile so I cannot get some of my guildies to complete the intro questline, however I did and wanted to clarify / get clarification on some things.

  1. If you’re in a group, is every group member required to use a Vessel of Horrific Visions to enter the scenario? Being able to group-up should make you feel safer but you need to make sure you cant abuse the system (i.e. progress much faster than intended) by simply having 1 person per group use their Vessel each time. (again sorry if this already works like this, unable to test in a group).
  2. If you’re in a group does each person get access to 3 uses of the Orb Operation Manual, and how exactly does MOTHER’s research work for group members? On their own they are nice bonuses for doing the Horrific Visions solo (I can quite easily complete 3 zones currently by myself), however if every group member gets access to 3 Orb Operation Manuals then I think these would be very simple for a large majority of the ‘higher end’ playerbase. I honestly think it would be neat if you could split up as a group but be forced to group up again later on to use one of your charges of the Orb Operation Manual.
  3. How do rewards work in a group, does each player get 1/5 of the rewards if you’re in a group of 5 or does each player get the full amount? I can definitely see groups of players splitting up if they’re in groups, giving them access to many more rewards. I don’t see this as a huge problem because I can clear 3/5 zones currently while solo with only a few points in MOTHER’s Research, I just want to know if there’s any harm in being in a group at all as far as the rewards go.

Sorry all of these were mostly about grouping up, only had limited time to test the Horrific Visions and did not have any friends that could help me test some of the specifics I was looking for. Overall, I actually quite like the feeling of risk/reward in the way it is done in the scenario; managing your sanity gives you a time crunch that can be offset by MOTHER’s Research unlike M+ keystones which have an actual timer to fight against. So long as either grouping up or being solo doesn’t provide you with vastly different rewards, I think this could be quite a unique/fun system for the time being.

Some answers based on the current build -

  1. Yes, each player uses one.
  2. The charges are shared, so three uses in total still. Not sure about the research.
  3. It appears each player gets their own full rewards.

I’ve submitted bug reports but the madnesses continue to be more burden than intended. Twice now – once last week and once last night – I’ve been kept in-combat constantly even when standing in a courtyard with zero mobs, by madnesses. Last week it was scorched feet, last night it was entomophobia. Can’t use sanity orbs in combat, which means I had no way to restore my sanity and was forced out of the visions before I could complete the main objective.

This happens more in the Stormwind vision than Orgrimmar (Horde Bias!) but this can’t be intended. Please check the madnesses to make sure they actually drop our combat when we’re not in combat, so we can properly utilize the sanity orb mechanics and keep pushing further into these visions.

Feels bad to waste a horrific vessel, considering you’ve already gated that mechanic behind a slow accrual of coalescing visions outside the big assault WQs.

Some concerns I have; if I or my friends get dc’d it seems like they are out of luck on progressing their cloak that week.

This system is tedious; grinding a currency, to buy a currency, to then spend in order to grind another currency is a silly way to force us to do content. There is no choice in this, we have to do one activity to do another activity, in order to upgrade a cloak so we can do the content that we actually want to do, like raiding.

1-5 man Group content that is limited in the number of times you can run it should set off alarm bells for the developers. With Mythic plus I can tank for guildies, for islands I can help multiple people and still get rewards, even for non-mythic raids I can run them multiple times but only get loot once. For Visions if I run them twice I cannot even participate with others if they need help.

You have created a system where it is so limited you are not going to want to run with certain people. This is toxic, but no way am I going to risk my two runs a week by running with lesser skilled players, or even someone who might dc.

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yo bro…we heard you like grinding so we put a currency grind into your currency grind so you can grind currency to grind currency while you are grinding currency to grind more currency so you can upgrade your gear to grind more currency to grind more currency while you grind currency to grind more currency you need to upgrade your gear so you can grind even more currency to grind even more currency.

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Miniboss in the Drag area of HV: Orgrimmar – does it really need an effect that is nigh unavoidable by melee classes, throws us up in the air, stuns us and drains almost 300 sanity?

Combined with Dark Delusions that spawns right on top of you during the boss fight, which also stuns you for 5s? There’s a line between challenging and punitive, and this is a few steps beyond that.

How is the replayability of these?

Personally I find IE’s ok if you have a couple of people you routinely run them with and Warfronts absolutely horrible.

With that being said, are they more IE, more Warfront, or something completely different?

You’ll only be going in 2x a week at most. First 5 or 6 ranks of the cloak you can get what you need (the cloak upgrade) on the first run, leaving your other weekly run open for exploration, hunting down masks, etc.

For the 2nd half of the cloak upgrades you’re going to need both weekly attempts to not fall behind, so then really exploration will only happen once your cloak is higher rank, granting you better sanity-drain resistance and allowing you to spend more time in there.

The only reason to run these after the cloak is upgraded is for the essence fragments (you need 30x of the fragments you get inside to combine for the respective essence), or for corrupted mementos if you’re going for either the titanic research tree, or the mount (100k mementos) or the add-a-socket item (25k mementos).

There will be need to go to HVs, but replayability just for the sake of fun is likely never to be a reason.

Thanks.

This

And this

Is what scares me about this.

If they’re more like IE’s, no set way to do them and it ends up just an ok mindless PvE grind, not great content but whatever. If on the other hand they’re like warfronts and it’s this scripted story encounter you have to do over and over, that’s going to get REAL old REAL fast.

Story encounters, Warfronts and Make Lo Go, all suffer from a similar problem in that you solve them once and then there’s really nothing more to them. With IE’s at least you can try different routes and strats and work on efficiency or something.

Time gated checklist grinds are hypersensitive to the quality and replayability of the content. Could really make or break the expansion.

Basically there’s the main area with Thrall (Org) or Alleria (SW). There are 4 additional areas that scale in difficulty (i.e. sanity drain, mechanics) that you’ll eventually get to once your cloak allows you to survive that long. On top of that, each area gets a random ‘madness’ mechanic that is basically a subzone affix (i.e. scorched feet causes flames to spawn at your feet randomly, dot dmg). Leave the subzone and the madness changes.

So at first you’ll only do the main kill, because your sanity won’t allow you to do much more. Two of the subzones will be slightly more difficult as they have a higher sanity-drain rate, and then the last two subzones will be even more difficult as they have an even higher sanity-drain rate.

As you progress you’ll pick up corrupted mementos which you can use on the titanic research, giving you additional benefits (i.e. higher total sanity, dmg reduction, sanity buffs when killing elites) and these all make the runs more productive/successful. So there’s a hint of efficiency built in over time as you get these additional benefits. But the enemies you encounter will always do the same things, so strategy-wise things don’t change.

Using the masks offers scaling challenges. There are 5 masks you can find in the HVs, and once you collect them you offer them to their respective altars, and can always activate them if you choose before starting the run. I don’t remember what all of them do, I do know that one of them activates a fog of war effect, limiting your vision/sight significantly – makes it particularly difficult to move out of bad things on the ground. You can also run as many masks as you want, and the challenge goes up significantly the more masks you activate. So there are ways to make these more challenging for the player who so chooses – I guess you can call that variability.

So I have some concerns with horrific visions

overall I like them, the difficulty with the different difficulty of the objects and then the added difficulty of the masks is good. I will say it is a bit weird that the end boss is the easiest bit but you get over it. I will say this i liked the ability to choose between Stormwind and Orgrimmar, i understand that having it change every week adds replayability but with it being a challenge I liked the ability to choose which one.

On to the concerns. **Concern one, lack of catch- up mechanic for the cloak **
currently you can only get two cloak upgrades/two pages required for the upgrade week a week, this is great as infinite legendary cloak grinding would be awful. however if you don’t your two upgrades/pages that week either because you don’t have time or because you fail the assault you fall behind and can’t catch up. similarly someone would starts playing late into the patch even one week is also behind and catch up. even though the cloak doesn’t give sanity reduction for raid anymore it’s still an important part of gearing and it doesnt feel good to be behind the rest of for friends for gearing due to timegating. For these reasons there clearly needs to be a way to catch up the cloak upgrades. the first is make it so you get more vessels if your behind everyone else in terms of horrific visions entered, I personally dont like it as it seems messy and doesn’t solve the failing horrific visions issue. the way i would personally do it is to have it so you get more pages if you are behind cloak levels, this is easier to manage as there will clearly be a set max cloak level per week until the cloak is maxed out. regardless of method there clearly needs to be some sort of catch up mechanism for the cloak upgrades

concern two: Due to timegating, it doesn’t feel like you can take risks in horrific visions
With how the vessels acquisition is atm, you can only do 2 horrific visions a week, 3 if you really grind out the last vessel. As stated previously you can only get two upgrades a week and at the start you one only one upgrade per visions. this means when you go into a vision you feel like doing anything other what you need to do to get the upgrade is a bad idea as it increases the risk of failing and not get the upgrade. this essentially means you won’t test how far you can go until your cloak is maxed which feels like a waste. it also means you feel like you can’t farm corrupted momentos for the mount till its maxed either. I feel like this is a waste of the visions potential and would like to be able the visions whenever i like to farm for the mount and to test myself. the concern with that is losing the vessel gathering gameplay and possibility of infinite grinding for player power gain. my solution for that is to make the vessels needed to get the pages for the cloak upgrade and also make the socket you can currently get just with momentos require something you can only get from when you use a vessel instead of momentos. essentially make it so the vessel gathering gameplay is required for getting player power and be able to infinitely grind for cosmetics in a similar sort of way to anima and covenants. I think that is the best to deal with what different people want to do with horrific visions

those are my only two pressing concerns about horrific visions, otherwise im pretty happy. the current iteration of coalescing essences from assaults and visions is go with its scaling level of effort to get vessels. the rewards from the end of visions chest seem good and obviously I really like the idea of farming momentos to buy cosmetics from wrathion. I think if these two issues are fixed particularly the cloak catch up mechanism then this will be a well received feature

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I’ve done a few different iterations of these, and a few things are still standing out to me

  1. If we’re only able to do 1-2 a week do you fully expect every group to clear every single zone every run? You get 1 Spark of Unwavering Strength per ADDITIONAL zone that you clear and you need 45 of them to create an essence. I thought past essence grinds were bad, currently this will take ~6-8 weeks minimum to do for most players.
  2. Some of the ‘zone’ mechanics in each Horrific Vision can be detrimental to some classes (for example, the knockback in the Orgrimmar Horrific Vision) I did it as a melee and even then it was painfully annoying - I can’t even imagine trying to deal with that as a caster.
  3. I’d like to think this would not be a problem, but it could be an issue in pug groups: party members splitting off and using all 3 of your Orb Operation Manual charges. Yes, I’m going to be doing these in a guild group, so it will not affect me, however there are PLENTY of people who pug content in this game and having someone grief your only 1-2 runs a week could be detrimental to character progression for people. I don’t know how you could prevent this, but I could see it being a problem.

I’d recommend having at least a few Sparks of Unwavering Strength drop from the final boss that way you aren’t just punished if you don’t clear extra zones and to cut down on the amount of time it would take to get these essences. Also this feels like a waste to have these only open 1-2 times a week for a character, I could see people having fun trying to min/max the amount of zones they’re able to clear, and it can make somewhat enjoyable solo content should you wish to do them that way.

I think horrific visions are a pretty cool system overall, a piece of challenging content that, with some strategy can be a nice piece of content. This does not mean I don’t have concerns though.

  1. Spark of unwavering strength acquisition is abysmally low for rank 1 of an essence. I get that all essences have been time gated, which is an entire other issue, but for this one specifically it is EXTREMELY detrimental if you have a group that either does not know what they’re doing, or if they aren’t as skilled of a group.

  2. Similar to the point above, because these are extremely risky and you want to get the most out of every run, you do not want to take risks with either pugging these scenarios. While I enjoy that these scenarios can be advantageous to some with some strategy, you can’t really practice or test on this theory because the cost of a mistake is very harsh. I am not sure how to fix this issue because the rewards for doing the best you can in horrific visions are very valuable.

  3. Some of the mechanics inside these visions disproportionately affect melee vs ranged players. The knockback in orgrimmar for example is awful to deal with as a caster whereas it is manageable as melee.

After reaching rank 15 there will still be reason to do HVs because of whatever they mentioned adding for additional corruption resistance. It will also be easier to explore and test yourself in the HVs when you have more of the research abilities, which is going to take time.

Most actual exploration of the zones is going to be best done when we’re powerful enough / shielded enough from the corruption that we can risk not completing and not shooting ourselves in the foot as far as upgrading the cloak.

Also, it’s possible to do more than 2 HVs per week, since each of the lesser assault caches give you 5.5k coalescing visions, and there should be 3 of those per week. The major assault gives you 10k coalescing visions. Add in all the dailies that award coalescing visions, chests around the zones that contain visions, etc it’s likely you could squeeze out another HV key if you really try.

I’m not sure the cloak upgrades can be earned more than 2x a week – Wrathion might not give you the quest for the horrific cores everytime (unsure about that) – but from just the standpoint of collecting coalescing visions I don’t think we’ll always be limited to 2 HV keys per week.

Died to Thrall, can’t release, it says another member in combat (I’m alone), left group told I can’t leave group…stuck dead in Vision of Orgrimmar. HELP.

Quit the game. When you re-enter you’ll still be dead, but Mother will be evacuating you as she should’ve done when you died.

Also, submit a bug report. That was already happening last build. Maybe they’ll fix it before it goes live.

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Alleria Windrunner is immensely melee-unfriendly if you kill the two medium area sub-bosses.

She spends most of the fight casting abilities that you can’t get hit by or must run away from her for, lest they drain your sanity or health, and if she refuses to move out of the fire patches there is literally no time available to DPS. I went in with over 500 sanity and was not able to get her down in time due to spending 75% of my time out of range.

As a melee I currently have no incentive to do any of the medium areas in Stormwind lest they risk my successful clearing of the HV that week.

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