Receiving a major buff as opposed to minor nerfs? M+ fights is majority trash. And the BEST way to fight trash is cleave/aoe, which we have now in spades. And with our scaling, we’ll be more desired in M+ now than we were in DF.
Oh Geezus Krist!!! I literally just said : “No one is ignoring anything”. That is the EXACT opposite of “yall are trying to tell people to ignore”.
A’ight, dude. 
that is so wrong that its funny, pad aoe means nothing when everything dies in sub 1min. prio st with huge cleave is king. which was why we were excited about jje and holy flame until they buffed bov and nerfed jje
these nerfs arnt minor, these are solid st nerf plus we lose our lego. thats why mage spriest and aug are always coveted in keys. becuase they have huge prio st with huge cleave and pure ao capabilities
idk man keep ignoring the problem. the same people saying its fine in this thread are gonna come back a month later going “ret needs st buffs, were not wanted in keys”
A’ight, dude.
and people wonder why im rude all the time
That’s…not a flex, dude.
its not a flex, not in the slighest, but idk how people expect me and others to keep their cool when people dont listen at all and then starts to mock and then go surprised pikachu face when ret is poor
Wait what??? 
You honestly don’t know why people would expect you to not be rude when having a debate?
Seriously???
And yeah, you were flexing…
Yes and?
Yes it didn’t scale well after the rework, but they kept other abilities at higher damage value to compensate.
Now they gave it back in mastery and they are taking away the damage on some abilities that they kept artificially higher to compensate.
I don’t understand what the hell is hard to get here.
Spec doesn’t scale well = Blizz manually adjust the damage of certain spell to make it follow (which is what they done throughout 10.2 for Ret and why they are bringing them back down, FV started DF at 136%AP FYI, it’s still over 160% AP at the moment)
Spec scales well = Hopefully Blizz doesn’t have the rein it back and it will organically follow the curve.
We’re back in the second scenario, be glad.
We’re not at the mercy of them paying attention to the logs and no longer tuned lower to account for a legendary.
Yup.
Yup.
Seriously.
The doom and gloom here from theory crafters with no real game experience at even a semi-high level and post no actual logs or math is always hilarious to read. Ret will be fine and most people who play ret at the higher levels are happy about the mastery scaling changes.
If you feel that aoe buffs aren’t worthwhile and you want better single target and priority damage then isn’t the obvious solution to take some more single target oriented talents?
You could easily pick up Divine Arbiter, Execution Sentence, and Holy Flame for that purpose. Empyrian Legacy and Vanguard’s Momentum are also options, but they would cost a little more. Depends on how strong your “aoe is just pad” convictions really are I guess.
Well said.
As an example: because we got a serious buff to our cleave/aoe, I figured I could drop Searing Light and put that point into Divine Arbiter to enhance my single target.
again rets main issue was the divide between st and aoe in talents was extremely big, 30% in df while other specs can safely spec into a more balance divide of the two, the next spec aka sin had a 15% difference. while the issue was somewhat fixed in tww, the new issue is that the baseline st kit was nerfed instead of these st talents
you already taking DA es in keys and st is still very lack luster. we dont have points to spend on vanguard and el without dropping critical aoe options like champions tempest or any of the capstone pathways (penience, burningcursade, searing light.)
holy flame is the only option but 3% more st/prio isnt much.
ret st was giga obliterated in m+ and raid, its okay to say that
I told you we were completely nerfed, it doesn’t hit, it doesn’t heal, it doesn’t survive, the slowness it has is exaggerated, we are in the hole, now they are realizing it but they said no, I am already in full gear and even with improvements it doesn’t I couldn’t increase my haste, nor the mastery and to finish it they weakened our versatility, in short we are dead, Blizzard hates this class, if that’s the case they should definitely eliminate it, this is totally unfair, I’m not having fun at all, but that If I paid you for the epic edition and spent a Blizzard subscription? in any content ret feels weak
Encourage them to be more compassionate, calm and articulated. If you don’t feel heard, they may not see things from your perspective, they may also be less inclined to hear you out if they also feel unheard. Try making sure they see you are trying to understand their perspective as it may encourage them to do the same for you. Remember not to condescend also
yall this thread was nearly 3 weeks ago lol
Geezus Krist!!
You didn’t listen to a word he said, did you?
He might not feel heard xD
Oh I heard, it’s good advice. But this thread died like 17 days ago. There was no point to resurrect it at all. One with the raging guy and the other guy giving good advice. It’s nice but it def wasn’t needed in this particular thread
You heard but didn’t LISTEN. Major difference.
So?
Just because the thread was 17 days go doesn’t mean anything changed. It’s STILL relevant.
It was directed toward YOU! No one else—YOU!
And it went right over your head.