I don’t know, but if it already lost strength, I suppose it would have to take more haste to have more procs to compensate for the loss of damage, I imagine
Wait what??? 
Wait what???
More haste = + Procs = damage loss compensation in crusader strike, do you understand?
Yeaahhh, no. 
and if it is not nerfed, look what they did with divine hammer, you have to spend sacred power to be able to use it, it has no synergy and in itself it is a loss of dps, when the other skills already do less damage and you also lose damage are if you have that talent, and they are not even going to correct it so it will remain, because where you want to see it is a nerf to ret
I don’t agree with how they are handling my dps specialty, I think they always do the same thing and end up making it bad, do you play the class? Or they only move numbers and talents out of inspiration, my bank card is getting tired…
yall are arguing for nothing btw, veng is right btw. whatever cope yall like to drink, but the reality of the situation right now is that ret got nerfed.
yall like to point at the buffs and thats fine, theyre nice. but in reality its just pad overal aoe. which ret already had alot of in general. this buff came at a cost of ST and prio damage which ret had non off in m+. according to early sims and testing, ret post nerfs is right in the middle maybe even lower.
yes theres such a thing as stat scaling, stat scaling specs often start off in the lowside and end up rewally strong in the end of the expansion. but thats something the majority of the playerbase isnt used to. yall will notice it too when you actually play and get to max level.
its again very concerning that our ST baseline abilities got nerfed while our aoe talents got super buffed for 0 reason.
design wise the spec still has issues like the nerf of jje for 0 reason.
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A 25% buff to all of our cleave/AOE isn’t just “pad”. But go on…
None of??? Yeah, our single target wasn’t top notch but it’s not like the 10% nerf will put us at the bottom of the barrel.
Which mean nothing now as Benmarch properly pointed out until proper tuning commences.
Not at the end. We’ll notice it as we progress.
Agreed but the 10% nerf won’t break us.
Perhaps but the 80% of Final Verdict hitting 3 other targets is still serious damage.
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I think you don’t understand, ret not only uses final verdict/templar, he uses sword of justice, crusader strike, hammer of wrath, (and final reckoning, this one was not touched) all the other skills were nerfed, do you understand? The dps was weakened ST, you think it doesn’t affect, look to see how the elemental shaman turned out and the difference in buff they gave him and not only to the shaman but to the dk, to the witches, to the magicians, enough is enough, don’t give me nonsense , the ret was already good and it felt fun, but in the end what they did to it made no sense, in any case it was only an improvement in the AOE and nothing more, because compared to the other classes it was below as always, and now You will see, I repeat this story to you, I have already lived it from expansions back, from cataclysm to date it has been rowing against the current for retribution, let’s not go so far in Shadowlands they did exactly the same thing, and you will see how we are going to be weak and it’s simply not fair Blizzard
Those 3 final verdicts are random, it’s probability in case you hadn’t realized, the 3 verdicts don’t always come out, my god 
I think we can clearly see from your response that you’re the clueless one
Now if we were to add up all the buffs we got and what they translate to in ST and compare that with the nerfs it kind of evens out.
If we take Volocross logs in 10.2.5…
FV nerf pre-patch is about 20% of our damage so a 2% nerf (10% of 20%).
BoJ and expurg combined is 10%, lets keep it simple and say a 2% nerf as well.
HoW is 6% so around 1% nerf.
CSAA is 5% so a 0.5% nerf
So that’s about 5.5% nerf in 10.2.5 damage.
Now out the gate, Holy flames ALONE reduces that to 2.5%…
Our mastery being baseline buffed by 4% then erases what’s left completely, we’re at +1.5%
AND we now have an added effect in Highlord Judgement which just puts it ahead even more even if it’s just a fraction of that.
What are you talking about?
You’re not following at all what’s happening.
FR WAS nerfed just like ES was too.
FR might retain it’s damage in ST but that’s not why it was taken.
It was nerfed in AoE
ES was also nerfed in ST, this ensure that those 2 talents aren’t the huge swing they used to be from ST to AoE build but they were both nerfed.
You speak as if this was the last tuning we were getting for the next 10 month.
Can you not see what lies ahead of you beyond the next 12 hours?
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Dude, why would you say that? That’s not nice. I say let’s give him a chance and hear his data on the matter…
…okay, maybe he is clueless.
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Lunch?
12charstilllunch
3 Likes
nerf and more nerf, that’s just what I hope and it will happen, mastery improvement? I remind you that before our master’s degree scaled, rather they returned the master’s degree to how we had it before and I’m talking to you about past expansions, because if I remember correctly in BFA it no longer scales, so I don’t see it as an improvement but as a correction, since our damage is sacred, it is logical that it was adjusted and was not blocked, you are saying it yourself, the ST was weakened, is there nothing else I can tell you, why did they improve divine storm? Wow, that’s right, just what we needed, unless you’re dedicated to farming bugs, (boring) but I, who play PvP, can tell you that these changes are going to affect me, maybe not because you possibly play PVE, It is understandable to have area damage but in pvp things are different for me if these changes are going to affect me and I will repeat it to you again, I already experienced this story in Legion, BFA, Shadowlands and DF, it started well and ended worse, let’s end the weeks well It doesn’t mean that we were the meta, we are very far from that, you can tell me that we received improvements, but what I see is that they nerfed us and there are the numbers and the facts, don’t you believe me? Well, let’s go play, I’ve been with this class for years to realize how badly they treat it
Facts about what, man, I don’t work at Blizzard, I just play this game, you understand? and I notice that every week they move numbers and nerf and raise classes stupidly without sense, for those I don’t need to give you statistics, and it’s classic to see how they always attack when you don’t realize that they always do the same thing to us, the only thing I can tell you is From a distance you can see what a fanboy you are, man, you have no objective criticism, it’s your business to settle, I don’t settle, much less my bank card, can you explain?
it is pad tho, when the spec already does high amount of aoe cleave damage. putting more numbers on it is pointless when we do tank damage in prio and st in keys. overal details screenshots arnt proof of good class balance
thats why i said it’ll leave mid/bellow mid with raid talents. less with key talents. stop selectively choosing what to reply to and what to ignore
yes that is correct, but it shouldnt be flat out ignored. thats the reality of the situation until more class tuning happens. historically ret has always been mid or bellow mid. again it just sucks that our baseline st got nerfed instead of st talents.
a 10% nerf will absolutely break us
not for the point it costs? with a 3ppm it can basically do nothing.
again it really just looks like yall are trying to cope that ret will be fine when in reality. its not. but w/e
okay now add the loss of our legendary, did people forget we got a legendary that does a insane amount of our st overal?
I’m not denying that. It’s just that my definition of padding (just adding extra stuff) is not what I would call what blizz did to our cleave/aoe. I mean 25% increase is a serious buff. Was it necessary? Nope. But I’ll take whatever buff they give us.
Dude, there is no way we’re gonna be mid/bellow in single target as time goes by with our scaling.
No one is ignoring anything. Benmarch and I are saying there’s no reason to doom and gloom until the numbers are set. So, until proper tuning commences, just chill and relax.
A’ight, dude. 
A’ight, dude.
2 Likes
sure thats fine, we take all W’s here. but it was just. a buff to something we dont need at the cost of something we REALLY need in m+ which ends up being a very very very bad buff. i rather we didnt get anything at all
bet
it really just sounds like yall are trying to tell people to ignore obvious concerning things. yes theres gonna be mroe tuning, yes ret might be tuned later on. but that doesnt mean the reality of the situation should be brushed as side, and the reality of the situation is very unpleasant. every melee in the game does more than ret in st pre nerf, now more post nerf.
i mean im correct tho, literally better aoe nodes you can go instead off fv cause its 3ppm nerf. they could have lowered the damage % but instead decided to destroy its viability. no one will use this, not even guides suggest it. doing a “close mouth” emoji isnt gonna change the reality that this talent got nuked from existence