Feedback: Hellcaller Warlock

Classes Warlock
282

I don’t think anyone will disagree with that but the identity of an entire Hero Tree can’t be based around what amounts to just a QoL change. That doesn’t feel heroic at all. Especially when said QoL change could have easily been achieved by just making Cataclysm baseline or easier to get.

Not everything has to be big and flashy but it also can’t just be: oh this one annoying DoT that you had to previously apply manually is still going to be applied manually but will now be instant cast and you won’t have to tab target…

5 Likes
283

Might be a dissenting opinion here but, I actually like Hellcaller for 2 reasons.

  1. Wither is Instant cast and makes me more mobile
  2. Wither is Instant cast and makes me more mobile

Theme is fine idc I just wanna be mobile

1 Like
284

I was under the impression that hero talents would be an exclamation point, or rather, accentuate specs. As in, make what they do and what they’re known for more prominent – or pull from classes we can’t play in the game, like for example a warden or something. I can’t blame anyone for being upset about Destruction kind of just taking a backseat in both their available hero talent trees.

As for quality of life changes, these could have happened baseline, or put into the warlock class tree. To echo what has been said, there isn’t anything heroic about QoL.

2 Likes
285

What part of Blackened Soul is just qol? It’s an entire new mechanic that fits destro perfectly.

Maybe they need to swap it with wither’s spot so people will not focus so much on wither being a dot upgrade.

286

This is not the case. I as affliction think the entire tree lacks imagination and seems to be rushed out to meet “output” demands instead of quality and gamer experience goals.

6 Likes
287

Wait @Devs (or @anyone) did we get confirmation or clarification Wither will interact with Absolute Corruption? Or any of our talents which affect Corruption?

288

I would like to see something that improves QoL with the bloat like an improved version of Rot and Decay that increases DoT timers on ALL targets affected by your dots so your not constantly tab targeting to maintain them.

Come to think of it, make drain soul hit ALL targets. adjust the damage downward (based on number of targets) to compensate, but allow each a chance to proc Malefic Rapture to allow more instants if you can get drain soul off.

This would solve the bloat issue AND give affliction burst window using existing spender.

289

No, so far we only know that spells and abilities that apply Corruption/Immolate will apply Wither. So stuff like Cataclysm and SoC will apply Wither.

At least I don’t think we’ve heard back on exactly how certain talents like Absolute Corruption will interact with Wither.

290

Maybe Absolute Corruption is getting shafted in TWW it will be insane with Hatefury Rituals no?. At least for PvE.

291

That’s a perfectly fine take on all of this, especially if you don’t care about spec fantasy, but having one extra instant cast ability is not going to go far towards making you more mobile or really do anything about the underlying problem with casters and the lack of mobility which is the fact that this game is stuck in the past and doesn’t allow casting on the move as a baseline feature. Until that’s addressed little QoL fixes like what this tree provides won’t do anything to alleviate that pain point.

2 Likes
292

Likely not with how rapture works currently. Depends on tuning, depends on any changes they make to aff.

1 Like
293

It would make its uptime alot easier with less globals, but you’d lose out on some of the hero tree that involves when it gets low and reapplying it.

But that is definitely the big question of how it interacts with diff talents.

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294

Yeah, Cull the Weak is useless with Absolute Corruption, that’s why I thought maybe they’d remove it.

TWW Alpha/Beta has a lot of work ahead of them to see how these interactions work.

295

I kinda like it. I don’t see an issue with Wither. Instant Immo for Destro is nice. I’m wondering how it’ll work in terms of shard generation and other abilities, such as Infernal’s immo.

One issue is, this hero spec might be inexpressive. Afflic issue is a tookit with near invisible spells, relying too much UI to see who has what, and who should get more DoTs, or if they should be refresh. Not very intuitive or visual. And Hellcaller doesn’t seem to improve on that. I’m concerned the “hell” part might end up obscured as well.

One idea I posted on another thread was a “Hellfire” effect. Turning enemies into living torches that pulse aoe around them. Like the old warlock spell, but on enemies. Could be triggered by Wither acute/B. Soul mechanic. The effect could spread or increase stacks on nearby enemies.

Add this effect to Malevolence or even as as alternative to it. Maybe a passive with a small chance to flare up and spread to nearby targets a few times (some players don’t want more buttons).

Seeing targets melting down with Wither and Hellfire, and things getting worse if they’re too close to one another, would feel pretty hellish to me.

3 Likes
296

I was concerned about the direction that these talent trees were going when diabolist was revealed, despite a few interesting effects. Hellcaller hasn’t really quelled those concerns.

These (hellcaller and diabolist) are both largely passive hero talent trees. However, we now have another 10 talents of modification to an already 40-50 nodes of modification in the spec tree. A lot of the spec trees aren’t even fully fleshed out. Demo and destruction specifically are chock full of passive filler nodes that do nothing but buff an ability by a percent or have a chance to proc a bit of damage.

Overall, the system is just unnecessary and could actually be a detriment to spec fantasy if balance isn’t handled properly. WoW isn’t Diablo or PoE. We don’t need to slot in a 5% fire damage increase when we gain a level. The few interesting talents in these hero trees actually belong in the class or spec trees themselves to complete those. We are sacrificing what could be a compact talent tree with meaningful interactions in each row, for some flavor text and an extra talent point allocation each level, a leveling process that is already rife with issues of it’s own.

The hero talent trees are coming out, that is inevitable. I only hope that the WoW team reevaluates this design and doesn’t leave the base trees behind in this effort to simply make players feel a power gain going to level 80.

2 Likes
297

My thoughts exactly, I’d prefer a weaker tree if it meant being more thematic and flavorful.

3 Likes
298

3 words: remove malefic rapture. I HATE IT!!

6 Likes
299

Right off the bat, my response to reading Hellcaller from the Affliction perspective was pure disappointment.

Adding MORE spells to my bars as an Afflock when i’m already having to use Macros to combine spells to have enough room is an instant “will not go Hellcaller” vibe.

I don’t use curses now purely because I have no room on my bars. If I have to add curses AND the new Capstone, this Hero Talent will be an instant no-go.

With Corruption becoming Wither, how does that affect the Absolute Corruption talent? Feedback on the unviability of Absolute Corruption and necessity of taking Siphon Life in all instances has been MORE than plentiful (with Siphon Life contributing to the button bloat and unenjoyable gameply experience). This would now seem to indicate that AC is dead and our issues won’t be addressed at all.

On the positive side, I can see what your trying to accomplish with the refreshing of Agony to help us with multi-dotting which IS a great idea. I also like the talent that applies curses to all ads within range.

Unfortunately, if you add even ONE MORE ACTIVE ABILITY to Affliction with the Capstone, I will avoid Hellcaller like the plague.

In truth, just the thought that you add an active ability when CONSTANT feeback from Afflocks as been about a busy, button bloated rotation indicates to me that there is still no one on the development team that understands how bad current affliction feels to play and doesn’t give me much hope for the Hero Talent Tree for the Demo/Affliction combo.

As someone who multi-specs, to echo my lock brothers and sisters above, you have failed Destro Warlocks completely without anything that fits their spec fantasy. I expected Hellcaller to make up for what Diabolist lacked but you’re now making Destro be more demon-focused OR dot-focused without anything in either tree that feels like what Destro warlock actually feels like to play.

Again, it appears the only Warlock class whatever dev(s) you have working on the class understand or are interested in giving real thought into is Demo (and it’s felt that way as a lock main for 2 expansions already).

I’ve stuck with DF even though I really hate what the new talent system has done and how specs feel less enjoyable to play than they did back when we had the previous talent system. If I don’t feel confident that Hero Talents are not going to make specs feel even LESS fun to play, War Within may be the end of my WoW experience. You can’t afford to fail on this … but at this point as a lock main I don’t have much faith, sorry.

2 Likes
300

This is an EXTREMELY valid concern, but I think we know they’re at least doing some tuning to the base trees based on hero talent clarifications. No one knows how much though. But they’re at least not ignoring them completely.

1 Like
301

100%. There’s more than a few specs that still have horrible talent trees (affliction and arcane for me personally) that I’m extremely worried about the addition of MORE talents when the existing base trees already create unenjoyable gameplay (and the constant feedback about existing trees being relatively ignored).

If we’re in for more talents that just get buffed and nerfed and shuffled around like the new talents in DF I don’t think I can stick around for that cycle again. The new talent trees were CLEARLY not ready at the start of the expansion. Your comment about rushing the hero talents is 100% on point.

Not that a dev will read any of this. Their response to viable and concerning player feedback has NOT be applied across all classes which is evident in the existing talent trees and what we’re seeing for some in the new hero talents.

5 Likes