Feedback: Evokers

Please use this thread to post feedback on the Evoker class, once you’ve tested it in the Dragonflight Alpha.

Thank you!

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Was playing around with Priest Leap of Faith and Evokers Fly With Me, and it seems that if both abilties are used on each other at the exact same time, Leap of Faith takes priority and puts Fly With Me on CD and denies its ability.

Very niche and hard to time in a live encounter setting, but am wondering if putting FWM on CD is intentional or how the priorities are set?

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I want to do some more testing on a Target dummy when I get home again tonight but my initial impressions and feedback, at least for any critiques to look at. Are that the essence spenders don’t feel as visually impressive or punchy as I think they should for a resource spender. But I’ll do some numbers testing and see how they actually perform

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VERY Early Impressions of like 30 minutes of messing around with talent builds. (Which I’m still not sure what I should be speccing into, lol. But I’m doing my best to have fun with it)

I know it’s not likely - but Dracthyr heads really could do with a size increase. They are so small compared to their bodies, it’s somewhat unnerving.

Likewise, the accent colors for the dragon form could use with some expanding - None of them really fit with the black dragons, for instance.

I’m confused why there’s racial bonuses in the talent tree - I understand that only Dracthyr will ever be Evoker, but it’s just so weird that they have talents that affect racials.

Hover’s animation in Visage Form of just throwing you forward while you stay stiff is very offputting. Perhaps you could make it so our character jumps forward similar to when we’re in dragon form?

Likewise, when we levitate (like when we use Zephyr) we just kinda… float there like every other race, why don’t we flap our wings?

Targeting Reticles will ruin this class for me. I can say that with utmost confidence. I’ve detailed this in my main post about them, but we NEED an @target macro conditional. It will never be optimal to use them, as you know, but the option should be there for accessibility, period.

For instance, if I use Landslide with an @target macro, I’ll likely only hit my target with it - but if I aim it, I can aim it to root 2-3 targets. @Target should still exist though, please consider adding it - I tried for almost the entire 30 minutes to get used to using Deep Breath but it was so aggravating to me with the targeting reticle that I just pulled it off my bar.

And much like Baldyr said, I don’t feel like there’s much pizzazz when using an Essence Spender. I don’t feel like they’re much different than their basic attacks. Apart from the cooldown on some of them they don’t even feel like they’re using a resource to be honest.

And just a side note: The left side of Devastation was obviously meant to be the AoE build, but the right side has almost as much AoE while also affecting single target. Unless you need massive aoe and weak single target, which I doubt you’ll ever need, I can’t see a use to spec to the left side while there’s so many “Your X attacks double/2 more/etc.” targets on the right side. I guess M+ late expac when people start pulling multiple groups, but even then, I imagine they have a soft aoe cap like most classes, so I’m just kinda confused as to the thought, just looking for clarity.

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First impressions for me as someone who has only played around with devastation in the “blue side” of the talent tree:

  1. Rotation feels great, as a havoc dh main, the rotation/priority (for the blue side) is very similar in the sense that it isn’t overly complex and its very “smooth” and intuitive to play. We don’t have any damage meters or major theorycrafting yet and I already think I generally understand my rotation without much playtime or reading.

  2. The slow is amazing and the blue side feels so good for questing/kiting, it’s sort of like a frost mage but more mobile and less casting. Just killing mobs out in the world feels good and not tedious like some specs can feel.

  3. The empowers: They feel a bit weird, maybe because I haven’t gotten used to them? I think the “tap” one is better for trying to get your empower to shoot right away if you just want the single target one for frost, as for single target you’ll want to spend the least time casting it as possible if you are only making it to rank 1. I feel there could be additional ways to make the empowers feel better, maybe a selection that we can double click to instantly shoot it off once it gets to rank 1, rather than having to try and quickly hit it again or let it go at the right time. However, they do feel fresh and different than anything we’ve experienced in wow in terms of skills/abilities

  4. Deep Breath and Landslide - These two, while similar to other abilities like Flamestrike where you cast and get a targeting reticle to then click and it casts it, these feel really weird since you need to like drag them out, maybe I will get used to them over time, but I feel really slow when casting them like I am not doing it quick enough and as someone who is used to the abcs of casters (always be casting) it feels terrible to spend all the time trying to pull out the targeting reticle. Maybe if there is an option to target them similar to flamestrike/infernal strike it would probably feel better, like you target where you want to land vs. having to pull out the long reticle.

  5. Animations: On the flip side, Deep Breath looks amazing and most of the skills look just so good, I know this is the art team but please make sure they hear how amazing they look, I love them, they look so good and it makes me really excited each time I cast some abilities, I wanna find monsters to kill just to look at the abilities.

  6. I mentioned Soar above, but one of my hopes is that eventually it can be upgraded to a better version of dragonriding later in the expansion. My initial gut feeling says “no” as it will be something that’ll be implemented initially and then not changed later, but I am hoping it will either A) Be essentially added as an option for us to “mount” soar in the dragon isles and elsewhere and/or B) Upgraded to a higher version of dragonriding later in the expansion. I cannot stress how fricken amazing it is, and how just awesome it felt when I first used soar and was just like, completely amazed at how cool it was. This is something I have wanted for demon hunters since release and understand why we never got it, but we finally have the option to essentially be our own mount and I hope that we get the ability to do it in a permanent way in the future. Once again 11/10 ability, one of my favorite parts of the class (despite having so many cool things I enjoy) and I really really want it expanded upon (pretty please).

I’ll likely have more feedback as we go on, but these are just the top things I have thought of :).

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This is initial feedback for the Devastation/DPS playstyle after a couple of hours questing. “Filler” refers to the no-cooldown abilities, “spender” the ones that consume essence.

The first thing I want to talk about is the difference between Red and Blue magic. I understand that Green is for healing and Bronze is for utility, both of which I think are very well implemented thematically. Red and Blue are a bit more of an enigma to me – neither of which have a real… identity. One can’t help but make a comparison to a fire/frost mage: all the fire spells leave a dot and all the frost spells snare the enemy – perfect and simple to understand. Shaman Fire/Frost shocks operate under those same identities as well. Obviously this exact same identity can’t be ported 1 for 1 over to another class, but I feel like there should be some kind of effect to differentiate between the two.

Well if not for effect, what about the rotation? Maybe Red is single target and Blue is AoE? Nope, Red has the single-target (ST) filler and AoE spender and Blue has the AoE filler and ST spender. Now this isn’t a bad thing: if the devs want us to use both Red and Blue magic, this makes sense. Both ST and AoE situations use both schools of magic.

But then we get to the talents and that’s where I start to get confused. There appears to be two sort of “paths” on the tree: down the left side to buff all your Red spells (and gain an additional one in Firestorm), and down the right side to buff your Blue spells (and gain 2 more in Eternity Surge and Charged Blast). There are even talents that straight up say “increases Red/Blue spell damage by X”. This seems contradictory to the last paragraph – if I’m speccing into all these Red spells, I feel like I should be using them all the time and never really use blue spells. But then I want to use a ST spender and have to Disintegrate which does far more damage then a fully talented Pyre. Or if I want to use AoE filler, I still find that untalented Azure Strike is more efficient than the “Fire Breath → Hasted Living Flame → Essence Burst Pyre → Reduce CD on Fire Breath” gameplay loop. Also if we are only supposed to focus on one School at a time, why not have a separate Red/Blue talent tree?

It’s hard to test without a damage meter, but I do see that there is an alternative long-term single target plan on the left side of the tree. Buffed Breath DoT + Pyres extending the duration/reducing the CD gives an incentive to use the Pyres on ST despite them individually being far worse damage than untalented Disintegrate. However, since both Pyre and Breath hit multiple targets, this “rotation” seems like it would best be used for long-term AoE.

Well maybe I’m thinking about it wrong. Instead of focusing on Red vs. Blue, maybe I should focus on ST vs AoE? Go for top-left of the tree to buff Living Flame, the ST filler, then bottom-right to buff Disintegrate? But this also seems to not work as the two talents that lead into Focusing Iris both affect Azure Strike, which is useless for ST and would be “wasted” points on a Patchwerk/Sludgefist fight.

I think the root of all this confusion is that there are too many spells/effects that are causing the magics to criss-cross. If Azure Strike is meant for AoE, why does it buff Charged Blast – a single target spell? Why are there two separate Essence Burst talents? Why are single target talents locked behind AoE talents? What is the difference between Red vs. Blue anyways? I understand that these new talent trees are supposed to be less prescriptive, but this one is a real head scratcher (perhaps that’s intended?).

I think the biggest offenders here are the Ruby/Azure Affinity talents, as these are signposts to me saying I should only/primarily use Red/Blue spells. If this isn’t the design philosophy, perhaps these should be changed. Also, the fact that the Essence Burst talents are split also is a signpost (to me) that I should pick one and use one filler or the other. Things like Azure Strike buffing Charged Blast is another “Red v Blue” thing in that I’m using an AoE filler to buff a ST spender – this doesn’t make any sense gameplay wise (imagine Chain Lightning buffing Earth Shock), but they’re both Blue spells so I see this and think you’re trying to keep me in the Blue ecosystem.

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You summed this up better than I did above. :slight_smile:

It feels like they were aiming for Red = AoE (as the main red spell from talents (Pyre?) is an AoE and the talents all add to AoE) and Blue = Single Target.

But Blue has so many “strikes X extra target” talents that there’s no real reason to go down the red path, as you end up striking a decent chunk of enemies (I think my Azure Strike does 4 or 5 targets, and the Essence Burst strikes like 8 at charge 4?) In HEAVY AoE I could see it being worth going Red, but that wouldn’t happen til mid/late expansion, as M+ is pretty mellow before then with the pulls.

I don’t even use Living Flame for DPSing as Devastation, which is probably a bad thing. Azure Strike buffs the 2 Essence Move you learn deep down the blue tree - so for me, I think it’s more efficient to really only use Azure Strike - especially since it’s stronger than Living Flame. I assumed Living Flame was mostly meant to be like Shadow Mend for a Shadow Priest or Vivify for Windwalker - a cast time heal. (as it does both)

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I am someone that enjoys playing healers, and I’m also someone that enjoys the Bronze Dragonflight, so being able to rep both was an easy choice for my first Dracthyr. I’m actually very surprised, and equally pleased, that the spell effects don’t really “blend” the aspect colors as mentioned when the expansion was first announced. Having a clear idea of what spells I’m using is important, and knowing I’m casting a green spell as opposed to a bronze spell is great. I think the team in charge of the spell effects is doing a good job there.

Although Disintegrate needs to be tweaked, because using it on low-level targets just kills them without any sort of visual.

I do see now that investing more into Bronze magic is more for utility, as the actually healing I’m getting out of it is pretty subpar. But I am very interested in making a utility healer work. I haven’t died yet, at least! The ‘me’ from an alternate timeline made sure of that!

As for Dracthyr customizations, the sheer amount of options there was incredible! I found myself thinking about what features were the most aesthetically pleasing, or made the most sense to have for a specific kind of Dracthyr!
The more humanoid customization options for them, however, were less pleasing. I didn’t really love any of them, and just wanted to get them ‘close enough’ to their draconic form. Frankly they’re ugly, and I wouldn’t mind having the humanoid form done away with so I can just be draconic. I really wish that it didn’t swap me into the humanoid form when I hop on a mount.

Being said, perhaps I would’ve also liked the humanoid form if it wasn’t the sort-of-not-really-elf-human, and I could’ve instead picked from the other races. I wouldn’t even mind if I didn’t have extra customization options if that were the case!

Edit: Also, for my friend’s sake, I would like to petition renaming ‘Cauterizing Flame’. Perhaps something like ‘Cleansing Flame’. Please, Moon Guard has suffered enough.

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It was definitely interesting to play and learn. I noticed a lot of macro issues with the charge up abilities (Fire Breath and the Life Breath). Most the time it would not let me release the spell early or would cancel it early. It felt odd trying to charge and reposition the cast in a PvP setting. I ended up having to do @cursor macros for Landslide and Deep Breath since clicking just felt terrible on those spells.

In terms of design and customization, i think Blizzard did a great job!

The animation while in Human form could be better though. There is a lack of animation when using Hover in human form and its kind of odd.

Aside from those criticisms I had a fun time learning it.

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I didn’t play the class super much, but just wanted to add my two cents in on the customization items for Dracthyr, specifically colors.

The amount of accent colors available for the Dracthyr form is super underwhelming, and with the fact that there’s blue available as an accent color, it made me think that there would be other “main” colors available as accent colors. For example, I love pink and green, so I was going for like… a green body with pink accent, but that’s not an option. And the one green-ish accent option doesn’t look very green at all.

For the human form, why aren’t the same colors available for hair color as there are for hair highlights and vice versa? To go on the same theme as my other example, there’s a really nice pale pink that’s an option as a hair highlight, but not available as a hair color. Just the amount of hair highlight colors is really small compared to the hair colors, but they’re also completely different colors.

Ultimately, I do really love how they look and all of the customization options that are available for both. I only really played as healer, which was fun so far. Soaring is awesome.

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While I think having uniqueness is important, I think there are some nice parallels to want be drawn between the transformation aspect of Dracthyr and Worgen.
Much like Worgen, I do wish that there was a “semi-permanent” option to switch between your visage and your dragon form. Worgen, if they never used the racial, could possibly not see their ‘human’ side for quite a while if the player wills it- and I like that a lot!

It feels very jarring to swap to visage just to mount. Constantly swapping from dragon to visage and back and back again, usually just to mount, doesn’t feel good. I understand the limitations and reasoning of wanting combat to only be in dragon form, but if I want to hang out out of combat as a dragon indefinitely as well, I want to do that too. It doesn’t feel fluid to end combat, inexplicably instantly morph back to visage form, then bunny-hop-levitate-stiff-animation off a cliff (read: Hover). Speaking of, visage’s Hover could definitely use some love. Maybe some half opacity, flapping drac wings? (glyphs?)

The racial Soar feels awesome to use! Ever since the idea of Plainsrunning Tauren has been around, the idea of being your own mount/mode of fast travel has been so neat. Worgen do that as well with Running Wild. The new flying system feels fun, appropriately challenging, and gratifying to use.

That being said, Soar on a 5 minute cd feels really bad. I would understand if you could use it in combat as a rare ‘get out of jail free’ card, but you can’t. If it’s on a CD to encourage folks to use the new drake customization system I understand that as well, but Soar doesn’t feel good to use except for the brief time I actually am using it. It feels similar to the Monk flying cloud glyph; cool for flavor, bad to use 99% of the time. I would love to be able to fly around in my drac form at will, and have it follow the exact same rules as drake riding does. (recharge, vigor, etc)

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I would add that Skyward Ascent and Charge both need a shorter cooldown too, as their 5min cooldown is far longer than the Dragon Mounts at idle or gaining charge while flying.

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I’m still figuring out the Evoker’s spells and how to use them effectively, but here are some initial thoughts on a few I’ve been playing with.

The charging spells feel awkward to play. They are very different, and maybe it’s just that they take some getting used to and offer a new playstyle. But as someone playing them for the first time, they feel awkward and confusing.

First, I don’t like having to stare at the cast bar to know when to release the spell. I’m already thinking of mythic+ where I have other things I need to be watching, like enemy cast bars and deadly ground effects, and thinking I’m gonna want some other visual or audio cue to tell me when to release the button. I’m already building weakauras in my head because I don’t think I can afford to stare at a cast bar.

If I press and hold the ability (say Fire Breath) and never release it, it builds to full empowerment, sits there for a second or two, and then fires on its own. This seems to do exactly the same damage as if I held it until the moment it hits full empowerment and then release it. So any extra time I hold the button is lost dps, and for sure if I’m not watching that cast bar (or some WA) to know when to release it, I won’t be doing good damage.

For Fire Breath, it seems like you generally want to cast it at full empowerment unless you need to move or a higher priority spell comes up, but Eternity Surge is more complex because each empowerment level adds two more targets. So in a dungeon, I’ll want to be dynamically changing how long I hold the button depending on how many targets I can hit with it. I think that’s a pretty cool idea, but in practice it does mean staring at that cast bar, not just to see it fill but to get it to the correct tick mark for my current number of targets. If I don’t use a WA, I could see moving the cast bar right on top of my character or something (but just for charged spells, which probably means it has to be a WA).

By the way, Eternity Surge’s description doesn’t say how much range the splash damage has for additional targets. I was playing with it on target dummies and it’s clearly not a huge range, but it would be nice to know specifically.

Regarding spell queuing, the ABC’s of casting (Always Be Casting) requires us to queue up our next spell while the first is in progress. This appears to be impossible with charged spells. If I hit any other key while charging a spell like Fire Breath or Eternity Surge, my charged spell is cancelled completely. This could be quite punishing during a dps rotation! A monk friend mentioned that he uses a macro to queue spells without cancelling Fists of Fury; perhaps a similar macro could be made for this. But I’m not sure, charging and channeling are different things.

Are we meant to be able to spell queue following a charged spell, or is the class designed to break that meta? Personally I like spell queuing a lot as I’m an older gamer and my reaction time isn’t the greatest. If spell queuing isn’t a thing for the class, then reaction time becomes much more important for doing competitive dps.

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Also, is anyone else running into a possible spell queuing issue with Disintegrate when Essence Burst procs?

So, I don’t know if I’m using the best rotation for this class or not (probably not), but I’m specced into blue magic and typically when everything else is on cooldown I’m spamming Azure Strike and waiting for essence or procs or other spells to come off cooldown. If, during that time, I get an Essence Burst proc (and Charged Blast is on cooldown), I hit Disintegrate to spend it.

Sometimes I find that my Disintegrate cast is not recognized, in that case, and I get another Azure Strike instead. It could be my own error. Maybe I’ve already queued an Azure Strike and it’s too late to switch the spell. But I’m pretty used to spell queuing and proc-based classes (played frost mage last tier) and every time I don’t get the Disintegrate, it takes me by surprise, so perhaps there is an issue there.

Anyone else experiencing anything like that?

Some notes on Devastation:

  • There are a number of talents that incentivize you to use max-charge empower ability, but there isn’t really a reason to max-charge the blue ability (Eternity Surge) on single-target. Depending on tuning, you may end up doing it anyway for the Essence recharge rate and Dragonrage / Deep Breath.

  • Dragonrage is really…weird. It reads like you want to do some Combustion-like thing (i.e. Fire Blast → Pyro → Fire Blast → Pyro but with Azure Strike/Living Flame and your essence spenders) but that…doesn’t really work? I can’t find a way to buff Pyre to a point that it matters, and Charged Blast is huge RNG, while the Disintegrate channel is SUPER long. Which leaves it as…just a damage amp that scales with Mastery? So worse than Avenger’s Wrath in terms of gameplay—at least wings lets you press Hammer of Wrath.

  • Dragonrage feels really bad on the GCD. The Pyres that you fire are paltry compensation for it. Especially since Dragonrage seems like it wants to be Combustion (which is not only off-gcd but castable while casting!), it just is super clunky.

  • I’ll echo that the Empower buttons feel pretty awkward to use with default settings. It feels significantly better on the two-press setting. Part of this is the double-gcd: you incur a GCD when starting the empower and ending the empower. Having a significantly shorter GCD after the empower would be better (not sure that removing the post-cast gcd is necessarily correct but could work too).

  • Feed the Flames and Everburning Flame have some weird anti-synergy where if you take one you don’t need the other because you either refresh the dot by recasting Fire Breath, or you’re extending the DoT so you don’t want to recast Fire Breath because it does less initial damage than Living Flame.

  • Tip the Scales should probably be castable while casting, otherwise it is super awkward to use despite being off-gcd since you spend SOOOO much time casting.

  • None of the class capstone talents are particularly exciting outside of a high-end group content setting. Time Spiral and Zeyphr are both raid/group CDs. If I were still playing casually I’d probably just skip all of them? Feels weird that none of them are very exciting outside of that setting.

some of these issues are numbers-related. Living Flame currently does over 2x the damage of Pyre, more damage per second than Disintegrate (though less per cast), etc. When the numbers are dialed in more things may make more sense.

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Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but when casting an empowered spell using the “Tap and Release” setting in interface, it would be really nice if casting another spell released and casted the empowered spell instead of cancelling it.

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God yes lol. At least if it’s at full charge.

I can understand if it isn’t at full charge having it cancel, (or having it be a setting in the settings), but I lost so many level 4 flame breaths cause of this lol.

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Some notes about Devastation:

Patchwerk Rotation Complexity leaves me wanting: There are very few relevant buttons to the single target rotation. The thesis on display here seems to be ‘Disintegrate often. Follow up with biggest available spell. Don’t let resources overcap.’ is extremely basic. Very few talents introduce branches in the decision tree and several are totally passive, including most of the capstone talents. Talents that could functionally read as, ‘+n% damage’ seem like a waste of the new talent tree, and while most of the Talent Tree reworks have me excited, the Devestation tree leaves me disappointed. There is very little opt in complexity. This element is by far the most disappointing aspect of Evoker and it felt exceptionally silly that what I feel is currently the simplest DPS class in the game made me type ‘Advanced’ just to make it.

AoE isn’t much better: I won’t rag on about this more, but suffice to say, the kit is so, so basic. It’s the simplest implementation of ‘builder/spender’ only you don’t build. It’s like…‘waiter/spender’.

Mastery is just a math problem: Mastery is either good, or it’s not and it’s just going to be something that is determined by Simcraft. I’m hoping to see this change into something interesting. We have some great ideas with Elemental Shaman, Resto Druid, etc. Mastery is at it’s worst when it’s just Versatility by a different name.

Thematics are great: I love how much of the Evoker kit is built around the idea of it belonging to the Dracthyr.

Utility is really fun: ‘Fly with me’ is both strong and hilarious. A focus on enabling your group to move is a cool direction to go. I love the ideas here.


Relatively short notes about Preservation:

Unlike it’s DPS counterpart, I’m very excited for this spec: The utility package and playstyle of Preservation is exciting to think about. The Bronze abilities are all super compelling. This is a spec that has me excited.

The Talent Tree is way better: Preservation’s Tree has a some great decisions to make that tweak the way I think about the kit in several places. I hope Devastation can take some notes.

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having living flame being both the main single target damage and main heal is clunky on devastation. normally i would bind a heal on dps class to a nearby button and having to press the self cast key to heal doesn’t feel right.

Also would like fire breath to still do damage even if you don’t get to the first empower bar as it feels really bad if you manage to cancel it hat soon often clicking another spell or moving

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Eternity Surge only affecting the number of targets hit with empower feels very clunky. If there’s only 1-2 targets, you never have to empower the spell. But we have talents that make us want to empower spells. So it feels weird releasing it early because it’s not necessary.

Also, would like to just upvote this. I’ve died a couple times cause I’m so used to just being able to hit vivify, regrowth, etc. on my dps hybrids. Only to see it cast on the target. Lol.

It doesn’t help that Evokers are incredibly squishy on alpha, like, even moreso than any other class on live probably ever has been. I got meleed by a non-elite and died in 3 hits. Lol.

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