Feedback: Epic Battlegrounds

2 ally dks, 2 spriests, 1 druid, 1 monk, 1 warlock, 1 hunter, 1 warrior, 1 pally, 1 rogue(my first toon i made in wow) and 1 DH. once i got done leveling i dropped 12 marks and got them each a mog. i ended up with a nice digital doll collection.

the new version came in without scaling, as soon as i saw shadowmourne was not scaling up i afked and didn’t go back for the rest of the event i think. the TW scaling was part of what made korraks so fun.

the current dev paradigm of ilvl>all else is shortsighted i think. its like a kid who doesn’t understand why a 155hp miata is on par or better than a 450hp porche, or why the production car with the highest top speed isn’t the default choice for car of the year every year. ilvl isn’t everything but SL basically makes you live or die by it.

hey, can i give you my feedback on how terrible wintergrasp design is for the attacking team versus defensive, its possible to win on offense but its nearly impossible, change that crap

I actually found the 2020 version better . 2019 had some insane twinks in there who were just 1 shotting 5-6 players at a time . 2020 was more balanced and provided a consistent PvP environment .

Also the games were better I think . 2019 KR was so full of alliance xp leeches , they ruined a lot of games ( remember ppl sitting on top of the Ally cave all game :roll_eyes: ? )In 2020 only the people who wanted to play the game joined

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without any scaling, 2020KR just felt like epic AV but with a closer start for horde, it didn’t feel special.

Naah … I disagree . Turning in armor scraps, getting cavalry and aerial units . High chances of the mini bosses being summoned … it was a lot different from retail AV.

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we’ve summoned Lok my last 3 AVs.

all that stuff is still in AV it just never gets used because games rarely go long enough for Lok let alone riders or aerial units.

IoC was planned to have aerial combat as well, you can still see the remnants of the airplanes on the ally side of the hangar plateau.

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He’s talking from the experience of a single game played, much like Gdtroll suggesting he did 4 games and thus knows how the event played out.

Those of us that actually played it know that the removal of backward scaling (it was scaled up instead) and the generous XP meant that games were a lot closer (fewer leeches) and more incentive to fight.

“Just felt like epic AV” - in actual thousands of AV games played, I’ve never, ever seen war reavers or shredders, and very rarely saw Ivus and Lok summoned at the same time or even in the same game. That was a common occurrence in Korrak’s, as well as the NPCs being tuned in such a way that people could defend Frostwolf or Dun Baldar for hours for epic come backs. Doesn’t happen in epic AV, as much as I would like that.

Ya I did not even know what it was when I saw it in KR this year … I had to google. That shredder thing hits hard .

I’ll keep saying it- as long as honor scales to games played instead of time contributed this is going to keep happening.

i’ve done AV ~1200 times, and i’ve seen just about all of that. i dont even screenshot it anymore.

like, a lok summon, a trem kill, a docks win, and wg O win are a pretty normal night for me.

I’ve seen it all too. My point was, and I’m sure you will agree:

  • Judging an entire 2 week event based on a half game is nonsensical
  • Likening it to epic AV is just wrong. The things I mentioned were common place in Korrak’s, and comebacks were likely and fought hard over. There is nothing more thrilling than wiping an enemy team while they attempt to kill your general, and pushing them all the way back to their base and eventually winning after a couple of hours. Using all of the summons to your advantage and timing them to align with your push. Doesn’t happen in regular AV because the goal is to get them out before reinforcements go to zero.

it doesn’t happen in regular AV because reinforcements are there to limit the duration of the game.(and prevent GY farming for hours)

i liken it to retail av because without scaling the combat felt effectively the same. korraks was special because it was TW scaling, everyone had equal ilvl so builds where purely mechanical and fights were skill based. i was beating up glads with low level toons in heirlooms.

on top of that, leveling in that environment was sort of special because you were already facing completed super twinks with a low level toon, so it forced to learn to play each and every spell to its maximum.

the 2nd korraks had all teh map play of AV, but none of what made the first one special. they could remove the resource counter from retail AV and it would play like korraks with hours long games and base to base momentum shifts.

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bumping on how terrible wintergrasp is for the attacking team

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We’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t like scaling backwards, it’s the reason I don’t do timewalking often, and it’s also the reason I don’t like levelling brackets. Being one shot because someone has items that haven’t scaled correctly isn’t fun and in an environment like Korrak’s where NPCs are important, having them be mowed down is also detrimental.

There was still scaling in this year’s Korrak’s. It was up instead of down, and they missed the mark on the template for lower-level characters scaling up - they should have had more stats, particularly stamina. I would say that the majority of people didn’t care about scaling, more the fact that they could afk for hundreds of levels.

Once those people were removed from the equation, everyone was on an equal playing field because no one team had any more AFK’ers than another. Low level characters could help by collecting resources or taming wolves.

I certainly didn’t see many stomps this year on either faction and it felt relatively fair (map imbalance aside). I won more than I lost on my Alliance character, and had a great time gaining 1000s of hks in the process.

Lag and queue issues aside, this year’s Korrak’s was much better than the first for me. Much more competitive, much more unpredictable.

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Wintergrasp rebalancing between offense and defense when?

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Acknowledgement of WG attacking issue would be comforting to hear, I pvp until I hit one then I just leave BG and logout for 30 mins or so

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How about randomizing the time on the tower caps. Unless it changed recently it was pretty easy to time backcaps because everyone knew the timers. With it random, folks might actually out some thought in defending the towers till they cap. This is specific to Alterac Valley.

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Did you try to give benefits to horde players for the Ashran map?

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[Towards my 2 cents I’ve played since vanilla launch and spent dozens if not 100+ in game days in battlegrounds]

I’m here to chime in on the WG issue, as much as I love easy wins on O I think blizz should bring back the +15% damage from having 3 towers, there wasn’t a reason to remove it and added another layer to game.

Decreasing the wall health by 20% would also be a suggestion, I’ve done something like 30 WG so far this xpac and I’ve won on O once when the other team was exceeeedingly bad. I don’t think 15 and 20% will be enough to fully balance it but it’d definitely be a start. Something like the old strand of the ancients with timer based sides and much weaker walls might work? Not sure how that would work on balance either.

With Ashran my main issue is it’s impossible to finish the conquest quest, by the time you get to the boss you’re already winning and the other team dies before you can suppress them at spawn. I think raising the reinforcement cap to 250 would be a good move, personally I’d prefer the BG be on a timer and not a cap though I can get how that wouldn’t work in a siege context.

AV, I really like the changes made in the last hotfix, there still isn’t as much mass combat as I’d like though it’s still there, I think raising the tower burn timers might be an option? like from 5 to 6 minutes. Though my main and really important comment is the alteric blitz is impossible to do and has been impossible for a few expansions now. Even in pre-hotfix you’d of needed a premade to even try that. I think it should be moved to a feat of strength and not as a core achievement.

I think it would be a good addition to add a boss add for the captain, I’ve killed balinda once in this xpac and that was during a turtle. It’d add another layer of the pathing attack/defense part of the matchup. Do we defend them, do we attack theirs, do we skip and go towers, etc.

Island of Conquest, overall I like where it is, stuff is imbalanced but in it’s own way and I win/lose about equal in it. Sometimes hangers wins, other times glaives win, I feel like the boss could be buffed to have an analog strength of 1.5 tower van, just so there’s a potential for actual defense, they die way too quickly.

Maybe bring back strand of the ancients as an epic bg and replace wintergrasp with that? and have WG as like a seasonal event like old av. I really liked strand and I think it’d fit the niche of vehicle/siege BG like wg is but with a much more balanced topline to attack/defense.

For BG’s in general I’d really like it if you could bring back the veto system, or at least for normal bg’s. I really don’t like CTF, though I’d go for almost any other normal bg.

BG weekends were also pretty cool, I miss going into AV nonstop for the day though that doesn’t really work anymore due to the honor system on random. You could compel people like me to play WSG or Temple if there was a dedicated weekend to it. [Brawls sorta do this but I’d argue you could do both.

Increasing conquest from pvp by like 25-35% would also be nice, though I understand it might increase the number of bots.

Overall this is a pretty long post, though I got those opinion things, I’d say pvp is an ok spot where it is though as always stuff can always be tweaked.

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Yea love it since it’s the only Epic BG with PvP in it. WG/Isle the broken Siege/Cannons removed all the PvP. Then AV is still who can kill a boss the best but on rare occasions AV has PvP in it if there is a turtle and you get to actually PvP out the resources.

Could Ashran get fixes sure!!! It was better in WoD. The resources in there need to be doubled. It needs to be easier to summon on each side.

However the resources in every Epic should be doubled. I’d remove the bosses from them too and remove the Siege maps. They are bad for the game and the Devs can’t make it so there is PvP in them. At no point should Sieges/Cannons be killing players. They should do 1k dmg.

Epics should be 30-45 mins long and there should be 100’s of HKs in them and people should be getting 30-50 KBs. There should be Epic Player against Player battles “over” resources. It has yet to happen last expansion or this one. So Epics are a failure still.

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