Feedback: Druids

Loving the Starfall and tree pathing changes, etc., but most of all I can’t wait to test out Denizen of the Dream and see a Faerie Dragon fighting alongside my druid in an expansion all about Dragons!

Looks like you all are really listening to feedback. Thank you! It’s going to be fun testing it out.

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I’m loving the changes and can’t wait to poke around with them when they make it to Beta! Very excited for Denizen!

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I disagree with making starfall stackable if it’s going to stay 40 yards, you are giving yourselves a balancing nightmare, no pun intended. It’s going to be way too strong on any spread target situation. If you really are sure you want to do this then make it square root scaling and provide uncapped options with moonfire and sunfire cleave.

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Cant wait to try Incarn with CDR… but it still doesnt work in this build, still only 15 seconds.

The CDR is working for me and I absolutely LOVE IT!

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That’s… it? 2 months of waiting for… that?

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Missing Blood Frenzy.

:nauseated_face:

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just lol at this point

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Holy hell, take a chill pill.

They didn’t announce anything yet, this is likely some things that snuck in early. I would think these small updates mean a more comprehensive post is coming.

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I’m definitely excited to test these changes to Balance when they go live in beta. Especially excited about getting our old little Fey Dragon friend back, I loved that set bonus flavor.

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That’s most likely the beginning of changes that will be rolled out and talked about soon.

Yes it sucks to be last in line, but saying “I’m last in line” doesn’t change anything.
Now that there are a couple little changes in, share your thoughts on those. Generalize what is good or bad about them in your eyes so that even this small batch of changes can help shape the larger tree. Is CDR on incanr good? fun? strong but boring? Are the additional pathing options interesting? Are they in a place where pathing wasn’t an issue? Where are critical places in the tree that need this kind of pathing update?

I’m not trying to be patronizing. I’ve certainly put out some “WTF” posts myself, even at times when there were far more productive things to say. But, I also got called out and it gave me the chance to step back and rethink how I could add something that would move the game/spec/class toward something I want to play.

The devs and people working on druid right now may have reasons for their workflows.
It may even just come down to a single dev doing much better work by focusing on 1-2 specs at a time. If that’s how they do their best work, let them do their best work. If it was because timelines were organized by relative completion of specs, then yeah someone has to be last and that sucks.
e.g.
Feral was in a really bad spot. Balance was in a really bad spot. Bear is in a just-kind-of-bad spot compared to the previous two. Resto was in a pretty good spot. Perhaps the idea was the two really bad specs needs to be pushed out asap to start iterating. Resto could be done alongside one because it wouldn’t require heavy investment. Bear still needed enough work that it couldn’t really be done alongside the other two heavy-investment specs.

Here’s the thing:
The changes that were rolled out for resto and feral have been largely very good.
The changes that have begun to come out for balance are largely very good.
The changes that are just barely starting to trickle in for guardian are looking to start things off very good. (Unless someone here thinks more pathing options and CDR on incarn is a bad thing?)

Personally, I’m really glad to see incarn getting the CDR treatment without having to cancel it early. I want to play around with it and see what kind of value it hits. Realistically, the tuning probably needs to make it hit the 2 minute mark— with good play—in order for it to be generally useful (esp in M+).
1 point for circle keeps it consistent with other druid specs and is just generally more fair.

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Only a few points remain to be resolved:

-Make an adjustment to the general talent tree.
-Review the talents of the Druid tank and review the ideas they have proposed.
-Add some new offensive option to the Rdruid and if it is possible to make a change with the ideas that they already gave from the mastery.
-Give utility to the Feral and Tank

There are more things to see, but at least we are not so bad ^^

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Strong but “boring”.

The CDR is bugged, I’m not exactly sure to what degree, but I’m able to attain 100% uptime on Berserk (Incarn is STILL not working by the way, kekw) and able to just pull everything from the start of the instance into the first boss spamming Thrash over and over. It’s fun at first, but then you realize you’re just pressing 1 button literally an entire instance.

I didn’t realize just how much I prefer Moon Bear giving me reason to press other buttons and juggle applying Moonfire to all enemies. Moon Bear actually seems much more fun, especially now that we’re starting to get higher secondaries and can push buttons more often.

It is nice to have another build other than just Moon Bear but if the play-style is going to be “every other pull you have Incarn and just spam Thrash” I don’t think that’s ideal. I would much rather have had the Bear 2-pc make it into the game with those fun mini-incarns just about every pull, which was a nice fun burst of initial threat before settling into a more standard rotation, as a possible alternative build.

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PLEASE no. I can’t imagine anything more horrible then playing Shadowlands guardian druid for another expansion. I want to get away from the awful one button god mode in Incarn and paper other wise playstyle we have right now.

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Sorry I don’t quite know what you mean by CDR. Do you mean the Ursoc Guidance talent? Because both that and rage of the sleeper look very weak. 2 seconds off of Incarn per iron fur is not going to move the needle much compared to 6% damage and 6% damage reduction to you. And frankly I don’t see any bear going convoke when incarn+Ursoc’s fury is a staple synergy coming out of SL.

Things I want to see:

Anything related to Maul redesigned. Bears hate the rage dump because it doesn’t do enough to justify it existing. Make it an AOE like thrash and we can talk. But a single target rage dump is just a weak ability and the talents to invest in it (Vicious Cycle, Vulnerable Flesh and Tooth and Claw) are the unholy trinity of talents that bears will inspect to see if the other bear knows what they are doing.

Infected Wounds is a pvp talent and honestly can go. With necrotic looking to be removed from the M+ rotation there is less need of a slow. Besides, we have incap roar and ursol’s vortex which is almost always enough to let us kite.

Improved SI feels bad. It’s nerfing us and forcing us to spend a talent to get back what we currently have and honestly most probably will pass. It’s just an unnecessary tax on talents.

Ursoc’s endurance looks to make the defensives easier to cycle but really is anyone having ANY trouble keeping up defensives at 100% anyway?

Front of the Pack: A radius buff. That’s it? 5% speed is very minor for bears and when are we really going to need it?

Berserk: Persistence: This is by FAR the weakest empowerment of berserk. The berserk build WILL take fury and incarn which means our shield is going to absorb nearly everything. Why would we invest in iron furs and better frenzy regens? The healer is going to be able to easily top us while the shields go up based off the thrash. So this talent does nothing.

Blood Frenzy/Soul of the Forest: We’re at the penultimate talents and have a choice of rage gen? This needs to be redesigned. We don’t even need more rage.

After the Wildfire: 200 rage is quite a bit and the heal looks to be kinda minimal for melee at best. Also I don’t think many tanks are going to be thinking about their melee dps friends when it comes to talents.

Guardian fo Elune: another ease of defensive rotation talent. We don’t need ANY talents to keep up our iron fur so what’s the point?

Rage of the Sleeper: For a capstone spell it’s only ok. 25% DR on a 90 sec CD is good, but the reflection looks to be meh and the CC immunity is good for what, PVP?

Then we get to the moonfire stuff. It looks good on paper but I need to play with it to see if it’s viable. We’re losing our resto affinity which was a decent non-stop hot for those who went it. This looks to be a somewhat ok replacement but I need to just see how much healing and dps these talents add to moonfire. Could be ok, reserving judgement.

The biggest problem with bears is not defensive, it’s damage. Flat out damage. Right now our incarn is looking to still be the best build and that basically makes us viable every 3 min. We need damage to be able to compete.

All the above talents (save the moonfire buffing ones) can be removed and redesigned into more offense. The talents are WAY too overloaded with defense when we’re already beefy

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Uhm, what?

Lol.

Its crack on the beta right now. Insane amount of damage, like 60% of our damage is moonfire if you run that build along with an insane amount of HPS.

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Thanks for the update. Personally very happy with the changes that I’m seeing. I can tell that a lot of thought went into the pathing and it looks like there was a concerted effort to remove/rework nodes from the previous tree that were low-impact.

However, Stellar Flare still seems too weak. You have buffed Stellar Flare to interact with Shooting Stars - a very positive and necessary change. The damage is still too low for a casted DoT. You do appear to have introduced interaction with Stellar Drift in our new tree, but chances are that these will be filled with the opportunities to passively apply Stellar Flare. I’m not sure that many people will take the actual talent over Twin Moons. .

This is exactly the kind of utility I want, except it needs to be good. I want to help my group. Monks can get 4% leech, 4% movement speed or 4% avoidance within 10 yards, far better then a little heal. We already have in PvP with Den Mother, so it’s something that can definitely be improved upon.

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Our best hope is that our raid set bonus encourages leaning more into our magic damage. Time will tell.

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Maybe it’s my idea, but I feel like the general tree seems a bit restrictive compared to other classes (or maybe I’m wrong).
Because we have a lot of unnecessary “Improved”, many talents of 3, talents that “Damage / healing” passive and above all how difficult it is for the feral / tank to be able to grab the utilities it needs and vice versa from the healer and boomy (and that when poor thing I did not want to have everything, just grab the most important).
Maybe I’m wrong or I don’t know what you think

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