Feedback: Druids

No worries, we all do it!

Why do you want to make it resto only? We were initially looking to get some utility for feral/guardian since they have nothing unique over moonkin/resto. If you want druid utility then undoubtedly you would bring a ranged spec to fulfill those roles (given the choice). Did I miss why you would like it to be resto only instead in a previous post?

I’m not sure I understand why Innervate can’t remain a mana return/preservation tool that all druids can bring for healers. As a balance/resto exclusive it’s a problem because of the lacking utility for feral/guardian that already exists, but when any druid can spec into it I rather like the idea of being able to bring it to differentiate myself from other DPS classes. I understand you would prefer it to do something else, but if you don’t get that, why does it need to be removed from non-restos as is?

2 Likes

Depending on the specialization used, they could make it do X extra things apart from providing extra resources to the ally (that is, the Innervate), so that it is not only exclusive to Rdruid, something like:

Rdruid: If you Innervate an ally, you grant them X amount of Haste. Apart from giving you 10sec of unlimited resources.

Feral Druid: If you Innervate an ally, you give them X amount of Crit. Apart from giving you 10sec of unlimited resources.

Guardian Druid: If you use Innervate on an ally, you give them X amount of Vers. Apart from giving you 10sec of unlimited resources.

Boomy Druid: If you Innervate an ally, you give them X amount of Mastery. Apart from giving you 10sec of unlimited resources.

In this way, they could make the Innervate more interesting and with different uses for each druid spec. And of course, the Rdruid is just an idea, I know it looks a lot like the PI but it can be changed for something else or I don’t know what you think u.u

PS: Add 1 offensive talent (non-covenant) to the Rdruid and if you can, give a signal for the Guardian Druid, which has been like 2 months without any change just like our base talent tree.

7 Likes

Resto only would just kill the debate war outright and basically "call it a day, if it was feral or guardian being it affecting resources and it being fine tune would be a option for us as unique utility option or the class tree and the thing that I never liked since its sooo dam old on it for the longest time since vanilla its just been mana for 15+ years that’s what drives me for change but if they don’t change it so be it, if they do cool tune it anyway you see fit, make it resto only fine whatever.

Doesn’t this just mean there’s zero reason to bring a feral/guardian to group again? The same it’s been for years now?

I have no problem making Innervate resto/balance only if feral/guardian had something useful. As it stands all druids can spec into 1 minute Stamp Roar, so we don’t even have that.

4 Likes

We may have to agree to disagree on this one. As someone who has mained resto for most expansions, and even the expansions where I main feral I still heal quite a bit, I like there being a utility that’s limited to healers. As was brought up already in this discussion, the moment Innervate can possibly be used to benefit DPS it will no longer be acceptable to use it on a healer.

1 Like

Feral Guardian getting innervate probably isn’t even enough to make them worth it over moonkin :(.

1 Like

Absolutely, which is why they would be bottom of the barrel if they lost Innervate as well.

I wanted to take some time to analyze the trees of all 6 tank specs as they currently stand with the goal of comparing Guardian from a different perspective. Above, I’ve included the data in a color-coded scale with further descriptions of each row.

Some conclusions pertaining specifically to Guardian from the data, going down the rows (I have bolded particular areas of interest):

  • Guardian is in the lower half of tanks in terms of the amount of nodes available on the tree to choose from (38)
  • Guardian is in the upper half of tanks in terms of the amount of choice nodes within the tree (6)
  • Guardian is tied with Vengeance for having the 2nd most 2-pt nodes within their tree (9)
  • Guardian is average comparatively to other tanks for total points within the tree (47)
  • With 31 points spent, Guardian is average among the other tank specs for % of tree able to be selected (66%)
  • Guardian has the most amount of 2-pt nodes required to be selected in order to progress further down the tree (7). Special shout out to the 2-pt node placement design within the Brewmaster tree as they have 8 of them, of which only 2 are required to access nodes below them with no alternative pathing.
  • Guardian is tied for the most amount of 2-pt nodes gating progress in the early/middle of the tree with Prot Paladin (4)
  • Guardian has a disproportionately higher amount of points within their upper section of the tree compared to all other tanks (28%)
  • Guardian has a disproportionately lower amount of points within their middle section of the tree compared to all other tanks (40%)
  • Guardian has an average amount of points in the lower section of their tree compared to other tanks (32%)
  • Guardian is the only tank spec that currently has no nodes providing some type of active cooldown reduction to one of their major spec abilities (ie, Anger Management)
  • Guardian has a disproportionately large amount of points required to “build-back” their SL cooldowns compared to all other tanks (5 points, 2 CDs)
  • Guardian is tied with Brewmaster for having the second highest amount of nodes within their tree that provide no defensive or offensive value (2)
Guardian Prot Warrior Vengeance Blood Brewmaster Prot Paladin
Total # of Nodes 38 38 41 40 42 37
Total # of Choice Nodes 6 6 2 2 9 5
Total # of 2-pt Nodes 9 4 9 6 8 10
Total Tree Points 47 42 50 46 50 47
% of Tree Selected When 31 Points are Spent 66% 74% 62% 67% 62% 66%
Total # of 2-pt Nodes Gating Progress Down the Tree 7 3 6 4 2 5
# of 2-pt Nodes Gating Progress Early/Middle of The Tree 4 0 3 2 0 4
Total Points Above 8 Required Line 13 (28%) 10 (24%) 11 (22%) 11 (24%) 11 (22%) 11 (23%)
Total Points Below 8 & Above 20 Required Lines 19 (40%) 18 (43%) 23 (46%) 21 (46%) 21 (42%) 20 (43%)
Total Points Below 20 Required Line 15 (32%) 14 (33%) 16 (32%) 14 (30%) 18 (36%) 16 (34%)
A Node Providing Active CDR of Major Spec CD No Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
# of Nodes That Build the Same CD to it’s SL Version 5,2 CDs 0 0 2,1 CD 2,1 CD 0
# of Nodes Providing No Defensive/Offisive Value 2 0 3 1 2 1
18 Likes

Yeah big agree, definitely need something. I still kinda miss Kyrian Empower bear in SOD farm. I felt so useful and everyone loved me for linking them. </3

1 Like

Feedback: It’s been 111 days since Guardian Druid talents were released.
We’ve had ZERO updates.

20 Likes

I mean it is basically pick your poison either it stays in the class tree and/or guardian or feral can augment it in a different way, make it resto only or leave it as is for the next X amount years. take your pick or can even remove it no matter what a draw back can be claimed but also tuning can make it less destructive. As it is now it is boring, old, it makes you a healer buff as a feral dps and that’s my stance on it on why i dont like it personally but I know people will disagree which is fine and respected but its player choice and I see people using however they want, but this is how I would use it I will march on.

Class Tree Feedback
In our current talent trees with Affinities, I really enjoy having the choice between Typhoon and Ursol’s Vortex as a Guardian Druid. I’ll take Typhoon to manage affixes like Sanguine or Vortex if kiting w/ high Necrotic stacks. However, with the Beta class tree, Typhoon is buried behind useless points. Can Typhoon’s position be changed to allow Guardian Class Tree builds to access it without wasting points? I recommend rearranging some positions as follows:

Move Swipe one position to the right
Move Improved Frenzied Regeneration down one position
Link Swipe to improved Frenzied Regeneration
Link Improved Frenzied Regeneration to New Resto Passive
Swap Sunfire and Astral Influence
Swap Typhoon and Improve Sunfire

This would allow Bears better access to Typhoon without wasting points

7 Likes

This is data plotting, not analysis. You appear to be on the way to making a point and raising legit questions, but fail to include that in the post.

I think it’s a bit of an extreme take to say that it either needs to be changed to be useful to non-healers or removed if it’s going to remain available for multiple druid specs. Healers already get the short of the stick in a lot of aspects of the game, there doesn’t need to be game design that further kicks them in the teeth.

But as I mentioned, this is probably a situation where we need to agree to disagree.

Missed the part when i said if they dont change it then its whatever "it is what it is " its blizzards call to if they wanna keep it boring and barely changed for another X amount years.

Ask Priests how they feel about PI.

Potential Druid bug:

Budding Leaves talent. I noticed that if Lifebloom is allowed to naturally fall off, the Budding Leaves effect appears to fall off immediately, which would make sense. If you allow Lifebloom to fall off then reapply Lifebloom, it has to restart from a normal Lifebloom and ramp up to the max 90% increase from Budding Leaves. That seems to be the intended effect.

However, I am noticing that if you manually click Lifebloom off from your buff bar then reapply Lifebloom shortly thereafter, the HoT ticks are already at the max 90% increase from Budding Leaves. I tested it by clicking off Lifebloom at max 90% increase then reapplying Lifebloom after 5 seconds then kept repeating that over and over again adding a second until I reached 14 seconds. That seems to be the number. After 14 -15seconds, Budding Leaves falls off internally and a new Lifebloom will start over as a normal Lifebloom and have to ramp back up to the 90%.

It would appear that Budding Leaves lingers internally somewhere if Lifebloom is manually clicked off, for about 15 seconds.

While this may not be a way to make clever use of game mechanics, it is still what I would think is a bug. It may not be practical but it’s still a bug.

2 Likes

So I have been working on a Guardian druid talent revamp, one which doesn’t add any new talents but instead focuses solely on re-organization to offer better player agency in paths and options. This is still very much a WIP but I wanted to share this sooner in case this could perhaps inspire the Guardian developer a bit.

Imgur

Changes:

  • Moved Mangle to the top left.
  • Moved Gore as a sibling to Mangle.
  • Split Bristling Fur and Brambles into separate, optional pathing choices.
  • Moved Survival Instincts (Rank 2) as part of the main right path.
  • Rearranged The Galactic Guardian and Mangle/Maul talents
    • Moved GG-based talents to the inner left side of the tree.
    • Moved Mangle/Maul-based talents to the inner right side of the tree.
    • Twin Moonfire and Scintillating Moonlight are siblings of Galactic Guardian
  • Moved Layered Mane and Reinfurced Fur to the far right side of the tree.
  • Split Ursoc’s Fury and Dream of Cenarius, allowing DoC to be a sibling of Unchecked Aggression, as an optional talent.
  • Moved Stampeding Roar up a row and made it a sibling of Ravage.
  • Split Blood Frenzy and Soul of the Forest, moving Blood Frenzy to the middle of the tree, with accessibility from any type of build.
  • Split After the Wildfire and Guardian of Elune, moving After the Wildfire as a sibling of Persistence, as an optional talent.
  • Split Rend and Tear and Untamed Savagery, moving Untambed Savagery as a sibling of Fury of Nature, as an optional talent.

Goals:

  • Make some critical talents across multiple game modes more accessible.
  • Reduce the number of choices to improve the player agency.
  • Align all 3 capstone paths with similar numbers of choices, i.e. max 2 per capstone.

Future ideas:

  • Rework Modal Cooldown bonus, making it based entirely off player rotation, akin to things like Insatiable Blade, Anger Management, Righteous Protector, etc and have this reduction affect Incarnation and Berserk, depending on which are talented.
  • Move Innate Resolve as a sibling to Maul, directly in the center, and replace with a more interesting talent option, perhaps something new like Bloody Paws?

I welcome all feedback from my fellow fuzzies, and again I hope our designer can take some inspiration from this effort.

7 Likes

So when are the changes mentioned in the thread going to be implemented?

Prepatch is right around the corner and almost all feedback is being provided for talents we don’t even know are going to make it.

If the talent tree changes are implemented now, we’ve barely got time to provide feedback for iteration before code lock.

If the idea is that Druid will be half-baked until 10.1 or 11.0, I’d rather know now to prioritize and play something else for Dragonflight—if at all.

8 Likes