Feedback: Druids

Would it be possible in a M+ setting to increase the radius of Efflorescence? With the new talent “Verdancy” where Lifebloom blooms heal targets within your Efflorescence, it would be nice to be able to utilize that to its full potential. In a M+ setting, players are often times not always within melee range of each other or are often times just spread out because there usually isn’t much reason to group up. It would be nice to have a slightly larger radius in M+ would be nice.

It’s not an issue in a raid setting since Efflorescence is best utilize under melee since that’s where the tanks and several melee with almost always be.

1 Like

Even Efflorescence, is very punished like other zonal healers… where practically in moments like: “Move mechanics”, “Move to clean trash or kill X enemies” or “When there is a lot of scattered range”.
They are forms where the zonal loses a lot of power.

Yeah, imagine a guardian druid in incarn spamming thrash during a giga pull… The group wouldn’t need a healer at all for the time Vigil is up.

That said, I wish vigil would work on AoE spells (cause 75% of a guardian’s aoe rotation is thrash and swipe…), just that it’d only count the damage it deals to one target rather than all targets.

4 Likes

Yeah, Guardian Nature’s Vigil still lives in the Mists world where it was essentially a 30s raid CD when a Guardian used it (aka wildly broken). It would make sense to have some kind of tech where the percentage changes depending on the spec you choose - i.e. dramatically increase it for Guardian only for example.

As for the class tree in general - it just needs to be put through the same process basically every other class tree has gone through. I know there’s an obvious difference of Druids having 4 specs as opposed to 3, which means more basic things need to exist in order to facilitate those specs.

To balance this, I think there’s an argument to be made that a few more Druid spells (4 maybe?) could become automatically learned and not on the talent tree at all. Then put the tree through the same treatment that every other class has gotten like removing all 3 point nodes, changing some to 1 pointers (hi Feline Swiftness), fixing pathing in general (why is Soothe where it is), etc.

6 Likes

for tanks, maybe it works… for healers not so much… in that case we lose 1 talent that is supposed to support our lack of dps nerfs and all

2 Likes

Hello again, Feral Druids.

We have some upcoming changes to the talent tree to share with you. Thank you very much for all your feedback on the current version of the talent tree. There have been lots of thoughtful, informative posts in places like this thread and the Druid forums that really helped us understand your experiences with the tree and what you’re hoping to do with it. It’s very much appreciated.

Left Side and Right Side of the Talent Tree

We heard your feedback that the left and right sides of the tree feel too heavily weighted toward single target and AOE respectively. We like the two sides of the tree having a clear identity, but we want players to have paths to get talents they want from either side in either situation, so we’ve moved talents around to facilitate taking some talents from both sides in both ST and AOE.

Energy and Combo Points

Opening up both sides of the tree to both ST and AOE builds also let us give the two sides of the tree different flavors of resource generation. If you want to empower Tiger’s Fury and generate more combo points, those talents are on the left. If you want more Energy, there’s more of those talents on the right.

We want investing in Energy or combo points to be intentional choices players make, rather than something they pick up automatically on the way to other talents. With that in mind we moved Tiger’s Tenacity (formerly Eye of Fearful Symmetry) and provided alternative pathing options to reach Feral Frenzy and Apex Predator’s Craving.

Berserk

We want Berserk to be a powerful, broadly valuable, rotation-impacting cooldown. It currently suffers in AOE because none of Feral’s AOE builders benefit from Berserk, so we updated it to make Swipe generate a bonus combo point the same way Shred does. Changes to Tiger’s Tenacity (formerly Eye of Fearful Symmetry) and the new Relentless Predator also give consistent options to players who are looking for more resources during Berserk.

Tuning

We’ve made tuning changes to some talents in this revision, and while there will be more tuning to come, we want to speak to some of what we’re trying to accomplish. In general, we don’t want any talent to be so powerful or impactful that all players feel obligated to pick it. That dampens choice and build diversity. This brings us to Convoke the Spirits and Soul of the Forest.

Convoke is an extremely powerful single button to press in Shadowlands, and it remains so in Dragonflight. Its current version with Celestial Spirits is too strong for 2 talent points. Our first attempt at tuning this was to not include the cooldown reduction from Celestial Spirits, but we hear you that a 1 minute Convoke is appealing and fits well in rotations, and that the Convoke bonus in Ashamane’s Guidance is underwhelming, so we re-added it. To bring down the power of the current version, we’ve removed the ability for Convoke to cast Tiger’s Fury. There are several talents that benefit Tiger’s Fury, and removing it from Convoke allows us to keep those strong because Convoke isn’t increasing its uptime dramatically.

Soul of the Forest is a power outlier because of the massive Energy generation it provides, pushing it into “obligatory” range. We’d like investing in Energy to be something players can choose to do at multiple points throughout the tree, so we’re toning down Soul of the Forest.

Miscellaneous

Double-Clawed Rake has been moved to make it easier to pick up. Lunar Inspiration has been moved to a more natural place for a DoT cleave build. Scent of Blood’s benefit was very niche, so we replaced it with Relentless Predator, which reduces the energy cost of Ferocious Bite, to provide an energy generation option with more general value. Infected Wounds has been moved under Sudden Ambush.

New Tree Layout

Here’s the new tree layout and a list of changes in the next build:

Row 2:

  • Primal Claws (formerly Piercing Claws) moved to Row 2.

  • Primal Claws no longer grants crit. Each point now grants a 10% chance for combo point generators to generate an extra combo point.

Row 3:

  • Merciless Strikes (formerly Improved Bleeds) now increases Swipe damage against bleeding targets by 10%, down from 20%. There are other talents to boost Swipe elsewhere in the tree, and we don’t want this to be an autopick in AOE.

  • Predator moved to row 3.

  • Double-Clawed Rake moved to row 3.

Row 4:

  • Protective Growth moved to row 4. Damage reduction increased from 3% to 5%.

  • Tireless Energy moved to row 4. No longer grants haste. Points now increase maximum Energy by 30/60 and passive Energy regeneration by 10%/20%.

  • Pouncing Strikes moved to row 4.

  • Lunar Inspiration moved to row 4.

Row 5:

  • Rampant Ferocity (formerly Ferocious Frenzy) moved to row 5.

  • Berserk now causes Swipe to generate an additional combo point during Berserk.

Row 6:

  • Infected Wounds moved to row 6.

  • Dreadful Bleeding moved to row 6.

  • Relentless Predator is a new talent in row 6. Relentless Predator reduces Energy costs of Ferocious Bite by 20%. This includes both the base cost and the additional Energy that can be spent for bonus damage.

Row 7:

  • Tiger’s Tenacity (was Eye of Fearful Symmetry) changed to a 1 point talent and moved to be part of a choice node with Raging Fury (look at that choice icon!). Now causes Tiger’s Fury to grant 1 combo point after your next 3 finishers (up from 1 for your next 2 for each point).

Row 8:

  • Frantic Momentum changed to a 2 point talent and moved to row 8. Now grants a 3%/6% chance per combo point spent to increase your Haste by 10% for 6 sec.

  • Cat’s Curiosity now recovers 25% of energy cost for abilities it affects for each point, up from 15%.

Row 9:

  • Convoke the Spirits can no longer cast Tiger’s Fury.

  • Soul of the Forest now grants 3 Energy per combo point spent, down from 5.

  • Rip and Tear: Applying Rip to a target applies a Tear that deals 6% of the new Rip’s damage over 6 seconds. (Was a flat amount.)

Row 10:

  • Moved Feral Frenzy & Apex Predator’s Craving to row 10 and added some routing options.

  • Unbridled Swarm is now a single point talent and grants a 60% chance for swarms to split.

  • Ashamane’s Guidance now also reduces Convoke the Spirit’s cooldown by 50%.

Renamed Talents

  • Improved Bleeds is now Merciless Strikes

  • Ferocious Frenzy is now Rampant Ferocity

  • Eye of Fearful Symmetry is now Tiger’s Tenacity

  • Bite Force is now Lion’s Strength

Removed Talents

  • Scent of Blood

Thanks again for all of your testing and feedback. It’s especially valuable to read about the builds you create, the thoughts that go into your decisions, and what you experience when trying to build for a certain strategy.

28 Likes

Gotta disagree on the class tree.
Feral affinity rdruid is spending 11 points on completely passive +% increases. Moonfire guardian druid is doing the same.
Balance druid would completely throw away six points if they want skull bash, three for movespeed, or four for damage reduction.
Feral has to take +% magic damage if they want clone
We need to spend an extra point to make sunfire aoe?!
Soothe is a dead point in many cases (mostly raid) but is required for stampeding roar (which is especially valuable in raid).
“Choice” at the capstone level is actually just the raid lead telling a player innervate and 1 min stampeding are required.
Nearly the entirety of the first three rows feels like baseline filler spells, and druid can’t even use most of the filler in any given spec because it all has form requirements.

And all of those are issues before even thinking about the fact that we don’t really get anything cool or unique in the tree (just my opinion of course…) Nature’s vigil is just another vamp embrace/AG. It’s not bad— I’m happy it’s there— but having it in the tree doesn’t make me excited to be a druid.

Fury warriors don’t have to take + magic damage just for the privilege of using storm bolt and monks aren’t taking abilities that are only usable while holding a wand in order to get + movespeed. That would be ridiculous, right? Now go back to the druid tree and look at cyclone through the eyes of a feral druid or feline swiftness through the eyes of a balance druid.

22 Likes

Any chance there will be an update today on Guardian druid or has the design team come to the conclusion they intend to leave it as is?

17 Likes

I’m crying now (in a good way) thank you.

3 Likes

Won’t comment on the talents because I’m more of a hands-on person and can’t grasp just reading the rows, I’d need to see a talent calculator or in-game but…

Swipe generating combo points is a god send, both numerically and gameplay wise. Thank you.

Tiger’s Fury not being activated off Convoke is fair and understandable. Thank you for the explanation.

The others I’d need to see.

7 Likes

Any thoughts on bringing back 1min convoke for Rdruid?

MW monk gets a 1min 12sec yulon now, would be nice to stay on a 1min ramp timer.

The Druid class tree itself is a bit boring and agree with a lot of people in here we aren’t getting anything new and you spend alot of points as Rdruid or guardian to gain nothing just to move towards the bottom to get 1min roar or something similar. Would like to see some rework there.

6 Likes

Honestly at first glance all of this looks pretty pog.

HOWEVER.

Still missing group utility and making spells from the Druid tree castable in cat form.

18 Likes

Any ideas or is there a chance to re-evaluate the class talent tree?
Also, is there anything about guardian druid talents?
Along with any thoughts on giving Rdruid some offensive talents and any thoughts on mastery rework?

5 Likes

Very well written and pretty much sums up my feelings too after having played around with the trees and doing a few dungeons

1 Like

Feral looks a lot better. Though we’re still missing utility.

Any chance for Leader of the Pack, Treants or any sort of new utility?

And with that - Can we PLEASE be able to cast Rebirth and Innervate in cat form?

20 Likes

I’ll second this. This is an extremely minor change with huge quality of life improvements.

16 Likes

I’m glad our cat folk are getting attention (not sarcastic at all - I lu bb’s)

BUT…Uh…what about us fuzzy land tanks? The forgotten Guardian druids?

I’m afraid at this rate - if we do end up getting attention…it’s gonna be half …uh done is the best and most polite way to put it.

I know the class tree needs changes too - but at this rate it feels like we’re not going to get them either.

That way you guys can say “Hey, we gave you changes! Look!” But they might end up making things worse and you guys just sweep it under the rug.

If the rumored release date is true - we might if we’re lucky get one change at this rate. With no time for another pass or anything.

Then it’ll be “Look at that. Expansion is out and we’re not making any more changes till next expansion. Good luck!”

So we’re forced to either play a not thought of or done/embarrassment of a child hidden and kept in the basement type spec. Or we’re forced to swap to something you guys do give attention to.

This is what I think is going to happen to us.

Do y’all want me to compile the Guardian comments from this thread into one big post so you don’t have to hunt and peck for them? Would that make it easier?

Just tell us something.

Anything.

“Yes changes are coming, we’re figuring some stuff out.”

Or

“Lol nope, ty for the feedback we asked for but we ignored. It’s not needed you guys are getting what you got. See you in Dragonflight! If any of you still decide to play!”

-Signed a Fustrated and Exhausted Bear.

8 Likes

Thank you for this. Any chance feral could see the return of Leader of the Pack, so that they can provide some form of raid utility?

Also, please tell us if you intend to do any further iteration on guardian (I’m hoping so).

9 Likes

Hello Restoration Druids!

We’ve made a few adjustments to the updated Restoration Druid tree based on recent feedback, and we’d like to discuss the upcoming changes you can expect to see.

Node Positioning:

We’ve changed the positioning of a few key nodes to better reflect their power level. For example, Nurturing Dormancy will be moving below Gate 2 and Rampant Growth will be moving above Gate 2. These shifts are also intended to open a few improved pathing options for builds that may have seen some pathways particularly limiting.

Final Gate:

The positioning of nodes in the final gate has changed quite a bit. Much of the same structure is in place, but there are more connections between nodes. We felt it was better to have nodes always leading you further down in this case. Unbridled Swarm has also been reduced to a 1-point node with its full effect.

Cenarius’ Guidance:

The last Not Yet Implented (NYI) spell on the Restoration Druid tree will be ready for testing in the next build. Like the Feral Druid tree, this restores the full functionality of the Celestial Spirits legendary as well as offering a bonus to Incarnation: Tree of Life depending on your choice in the preceding node.

Here’s a look at the new layout:

  • Cenarius’ Guidance. New Talent, row 9. During Incarnation: Tree of Life, you gain Clearcasting every 6 sec. The cooldown of Incarnation: Tree of Life is reduced by 1.5 seconds when Lifebloom blooms or 1.0 seconds when Regrowth’s initial heal critically strikes. Convoke the Spirits’ cooldown is reduced by 50% and its duration and number of spells cast is reduced by 25%. Convoke the Spirits has an increased chance to use an exceptional spell or ability.

We really appreciate the feedback you’ve provided. Thanks again!

10 Likes

Cool changes for resto.

And both moonkin and feral have gotten changes.

So that means guardian druid iterations are coming out today, right? Something? anything? We’ve waited patiently for literally 2 months

9 Likes