Feedback: Druids

So, at this point, i think we need to just crumple up Druid and throw it in the trash and start over.

First, Druid has 4 specs and one thread is prob not good enough for all 4. This thread has devolved into 3 ppl talking about the class and i dont agree with any of it and none of this conversation has anything to makes me “thrilled to be part of the class”. With basically 0 feedback from the devs, it makes it feel like the loudest are in the drivers seat. But we are left guessing and if this thread is any indication of how the class is gonna play out in Dragonflight I will for sure be choosing another where the feedback loop is working.

While yes druids enjoy having 4 forms to do different things I do not feel like I want to play all 4 forms or really even 2 forms in combat. Switching forms should be a talent-able playstyle, but Guardian Druids for example might not want to swap out of Bear to cast innervate and sunfire. With the current trees it seems we will be swapping in and out of forms no matter what spec we are.

I want to play Druid, and personally after the treatment we have gotten in Shadowlands, and the feedback or lack thereof so far in Dragonflight, it seems like a waste. I feel like blizzard does not want us to play Balance. In Shadowlands it got nerfed on a regular basis until the final blow before season 3, which was basically strong enough to also nerf Gaurdian Druid via Venthyr tuning. Guardian druids 4pc was gutted so hard that its almost ineffective and it wasnt even fun to begin with. I dont understand why because there are a lot of balance enjoyers out there and now they are moving to other classes like hunter, who gets feedback every week and i do not blame them.

Please Please give us something, something to be excited about because right now Paladin is looking really good.

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I hope it doesn’t happen again or if they are going to nerf us, at least they help us in some weak area, for example:

In SL on S1-S2 the boomy was really required for his burst which lined up perfectly for bosses and big pulls as long as he managed to calculate (3min of incarn + frenzy). However, the latter received several nerfs and it stayed that way, unfortunately they caused the boomy druid to decline a lot, that along with the changes they gave to classes and dungeons, where practically the pulls became more constant and lasted little (which unfortunately did not Helped boomy at all with mediocre damage and spin off of his burst).

From what we’ve seen that change was pretty tough on boomys, but it wouldn’t have been a problem if blizzard had addressed one of their main issues (long CD and flaws in many of their damage mechanics).
Unfortunately throughout SL all 4 druid specs were nerfed and were rarely supported by buffs. If my memory serves me right the following were the nerfs:

1- Boomy, was nerfed with the Venthyr Pact and wasn’t buffed until S4 (with his starfall buff).
2- Druids in general and that mainly affected Rdruid, was Kyrian’s nerf (going his buff from 10% to 5/6% along with 3% for his ally). This nerf was very impactful for the Boomy, Tank and healer specs (which had gotten a utility or reason to carry them), sadly it was nerfed and there was no longer a reason to be Kyrian (Meanwhile Priest’s NF and PI are still standing).
3- Feral, was the weakest class since S1-S2 however in S3 (at least in the ptr) it looked promising with its tier, unfortunately just like the tank tier they were nerfed.
4- Tank, he was nerfed mainly in his venthyr and tier pact, being sustained with… a 3-5% mangrove increase (I don’t know what they smoked to think that this would be enough).

Anyway, I hope it doesn’t happen again in DF for the druid and for any class. And if in case they had to, at least try to improve some area of ​​the class or spec, as for example they did with the Warlock destro and Hunter Survival, which received nerfs but good buffs (which I found very irritating that they give special treatment instead of helping the boomy and feral who are currently down).

PS: If any talents or powers are broken for PvP or PvE, I hope blizzard uses his auras that he has in the game… why be nerfing 1 spell/passive/talent/etc. Just because it’s strong in 1 area, it makes the other side of the coin end up being lousy or worse than it was before.

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I hear your frustration, and share it, as I think we all do. Ion said it best - we deserve better. At issue now is that his statement was two weeks ago, and since then we haven’t gotten enough either (one iteration on each of two specs is still pretty limited outcome).

More critically than outcomes the lack of communication is fairly astounding after Ion’s remarks.

I understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t agree with the conclusion.

The differences between the Druid specs are as significant as any other class and more than most, and are thoroughly complicated by unnecessary mechanics (the form-shifting & form-change-GCD mess) which are actually easily resolved in principle, although probably take some coding to do.

In fact, resolve this issue and fix the issues with the initial Druid class tree and it’s node placement and connections, and as a ‘Druid class’ we’re getting back on track even if I feel the class tree needs a few more iterations yet.

So what are your thoughts if you agree with none of it? More feedback and thoughts are always useful! I don’t see how people sharing their constructive thoughts is an issue (although I’d say my most recent post lacked anything constructive, but hey we all have our moments)

True - particularly with the work involved in actually fixing Druid, I also feel the class is ‘teetering on the edge’, even if I’m still sucking on the hopium that this will, in fact, change.

I don’t think any forum poster is ‘in the drivers seat’ - hell everyone feels like a kidnapped passenger in the trunk at this point. I’d just encourage you to voice your thoughts also particularly where you don’t agree and you want your thoughts heard.

Yup, this needs to be fixed - not so much because it needs fixing in the context of DF (although that is also true), but because it was already utterly broken. I actually haven’t heard a single voice against this thought, and I’d say it’s actually one of the consistent and clear issues raised in the thread. Even better - there have been some great recent suggestions on how this might look in practice (which would be totally in line with the class fantasy, totally cool, and actually very playable).

That’s just a cool suggestion, which I wholeheartedly endorse.

Yeah Balance in SL has been utterly underwhelming, and honestly the other specs aren’t far behind apart from (in my view) resto which is tuned fairly well and I personally enjoy the playstyle. All parts of Druid still need work however looking towards DF, including resto.

It’s been five days since Kaivax’s last post - my hope is that they were on an initial fortnightly run of two specs in week one, and the other two and hopefully the class tree week two.

I’m REALLY hoping however that we start getting more feedback from the devs, and not just ‘here’s a bunch of changes’ but some…checks job title associated with Blue posts actual community engagement. I’d be super disappointed if we didn’t get at least a status update on everything in the next two days.

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This is true.

For a lot of other classes like Lock, Mage, Hunter, Rogue, DPS Warrior, etc, they’ll just hop to whatever spec is their best, but for “Hybrid” classes we’re basically 4 “classes” rolled into one. Some people who play Bear never want to play and don’t really care about Balance, same with Cat about Resto and so on.

Splitting into threads about each spec would probably be a bit more focused/productive.

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Honestly if they wanted to add Faerie Fire you could just add one more talent under BASH - and that would end the whole conversation.

Warlocks have interrupts and fear - warriors have interrupt and fear - rogues have stuns, kick, kidney shot so on…having multiple silences/interrupts is not unheard of in the game. Even moonkins can have ursol’s vortex and cyclone.

So yes please add Faerie Fire back into the game for bears and kitties.

As for the second topic Remove Corruption, seriously this should be on the first tier of the tree, rather than three down - move the healing spells down, and have it on top.

Evokers have a simple remove poison/curses at top of their tree, and further down a more complete one.

So while I don’t suggest giving us two spells or a modified spell, I would like to see it higher so Guardians and Kitties can spec more into dps/tank rolls and less into healing, either that or give us the ability to use those healing spells in form all of the time.

Again the whole concept of being a hybrid is that you excell in a specific spec - not that you are mediocre in it, so anything that improves utility is secondary to the main spec you choose. If you are unwilling to allow us to use the healing spells while we are in forms then you should deprioritize them.

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Hey there Boomkins,

We are working on the next iteration of the Balance talent tree along with some baseline changes that you should see in the coming weeks. Players will see some of our changes in next week’s build, but the full suite of changes will not be in the Beta until the following week. That said, we want to give you a quick preview in the meantime:

Druid – Balance:

  • Mastery: Total Eclipse has been redesigned to the following:
    • Renamed to Mastery: Astral Invocation.
    • “Your Nature spells deal increased damage to targets affected by Sunfire. Your Arcane spells deal increased damage to targets affected by Moonfire.”

The previous design of Eclipse and Mastery: Total Eclipse created a situation where the power of the spec was dictated by Celestial Alignment, allowing for double dipping the mastery bonus. While this is fun, it takes away from the power and feel of the spec outside of cooldowns. With this new Mastery our goal is to further reinforce keeping your DoTs active while continuing to allow for Starsurge, Starfall, and Stellar flare to be able to gain extra benefit from Mastery even outside of cooldowns.

  • Eclipse
    • Eclipses no longer occur in alternation.
    • Eclipses no longer reduce casting time.
    • Lunar Eclipse now increases the damage of your Arcane spells by 15%.
    • Solar Eclipse now increases the damage of your Nature spells by 15%.

From reviewing feedback and discussions, we found two common themes for Eclipse: 1) There is a lack of control with the rotation that can feel bad in both single target and AoE. 2) Having to cast 2 unempowered Wraths or Starfires to enter an Eclipse combined with their weaker base power and Starfire’s long cast time is underwhelming. With these changes our goal is to allow you to exit an Eclipse, say Solar, and then re-enter Solar Eclipse by casting 2 Starfires again. We’re also looking at adding talents to improve the feel of casting unempowered Wraths and Starfires between Eclipses.

  • Starfall has been redesigned to the following:
    • Instant. Costs 50 Astral Power.
    • “Calls down waves of falling stars at the targeted area, dealing Astral damage over 8 sec.”

We gave a cooldown version of Starfall a chance again for Shadowlands and we don’t feel it has played as well as we had hoped. Having a Starfall that moves with you is awesome and something we had hoped to keep, but for gameplay we feel it’s better to be able to choose to spend additional Astral Power for more Starfalls.

  • Improved Starsurge has been removed. Starsurge no longer empowers the damage bonus of active Eclipses.

Improved Starsurge encouraged pooling resources more than we would like and the mechanic was hidden enough for some players to be unaware of the gameplay it encouraged.

  • Shooting Stars
    • Has an increased chance to occur.
    • Stellar Flare damage now has a chance to proc Shooting Stars.

While we do not have plans to increase DoT damage, we feel we went too far in toning down Shooting Stars, so we’re looking to allow for it trigger more so that Astral Power generation from DoTs is more noticeable in AoE. Stellar Flare’s lack of gameplay hooks has made it an underwhelming talent choice, so we’re allowing it to trigger Shooting Stars.

This is only a small peek at what we’re working on and by no means a complete change list. Our goal with posting some of our larger and more systemic changes is to gather initial feedback and take that into account when continuing to implement our remaining changes. We appreciate the feedback thus far and look forward to hearing more of your thoughts regarding Balance Druid in the coming weeks.

45 Likes

Wow, seems like a big change for boomy (I’m not too sure since I haven’t played it in a long time). I am very glad that they are already giving us changes to all the druid specs, only the druid tank is missing and the healer mastery rework is missing nwn

Balance druids should be happy by now? After hearing this but I have a feeling that some will hate this change. But nonetheless they are listening to feedback.

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Shooting stars increase change + Stellar Flare chance to proc shooting stars? Starfall spammable?

All great changes so far. I am having a hard time imagining how the eclipse change works, but on paper this seems great. Thank you Devs so much <3

edit: eep I misread the dot stuff. I was excited :frowning:

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Hey Frozzo,

Thank you so much for the update - looking forward to testing these changes.

I’m happy to see a trend toward making our DoTs matter in our rotation.
A few questions:

  • Do you see a world where Fury of Elune also interacts with the Shooting Stars mechanic? I think that this could lead to some interesting DoT-based builds.
  • You mention specifically that you do not plan on buffing DoTs, but would you consider taking a second look at Stellar Flare? It does less damage than Moonfire and Sunfire despite being casted.
  • Will you be taking a look at the damage and/or softcap of Shooting Stars?

Thanks!

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Resto mastery rework? They have the best mastery of all the healers in the game

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With this news, I really hope that they consider rebuffing CA like they considered during early builds.

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That’s debatable. It’s not super useful in many situations.

I mean, it gives druid insane burst in 5 mans since you can easily multi-stack, and in raid it makes for longer ramp>burst playstyle.

No other healer has as flexible, nor powerful mastery in either content. I’d love to hear what you believe to be more useful in current healers?

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If there was one thing I absolutely did NOT want to happen it’s changing starfall back. Please please don’t do that. There’s so many better ways to fix it. Allow it to stack. If you’re concerned about it getting out of hand, only allow it to stack to 2. Then stellar drift can simply be changed to apply to the next 2 cast time spells instead of the whole time it’s up. That would be 1000x better than this.

Rest of it is good. Little concerned that m+ is going to be moonfire spam all day, but that’s not the end of the world. The starfall change completely ruins any excitement I could possibly have however.

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that is untrue lol

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Please enlighten me on just one healer outside of druid that actually likes to stack mastery in raiding scenario

holy priest
holy paladin
mistweaver

need I go on?

resto doesnt stack mastery in raid and is okay in m+

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You’re wrong on 2/3 of them so you probably shouldn’t.

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uh. lol
no.