Feedback: Druids

The decision to weave is based on the state of a lot of things coming together in the just the right way to make a few globals worth of the other form worth giving up auto attack damage. The challenge this creates is that it will be very hard, if not impossible, for Blizzard to ensure the right play involves weaving less frequently. This is especially true since some of those conditions are the random events of if your builders crit or not. If the possiblity for weaving exists, the possiblity for it to be correct multiple times per minute will always exist.

I’m not opposed to there being options to support players who want to weave. I wouldn’t mind if there existed a build that allowed players who truly don’t want downtime to have that option as a play style. I’m just opposed to weaving resulting in a DPS increase. There should never be a situation where shifting out of cat form results in a larger expected DPS output for feral while in melee range of the enemies.

3 Likes

As someone that has been in beta for only a short time and following Guardian druid closely in particular, I think the tree needs some help on a fundamental level. I apologize if this is a repeat from previous posts, but I hope that more reinforcement of repeat points shows the need to look into possible changes.

  1. The tree’s pathing is too restrictive. There’s too many “hanging” talents like Galactic Guardian and Viscous Cycle that lead nowhere and dead end your builds. Once you hit the 7th row, you are locked into pathing the rest of the way down the tree. This means you lock in a playstyle at level 40ish instead of closer to 70. This has negative impacts on the spec as a whole because you have to commit too early to your capstones and new players will not know which path is “correct” as a result while veteran players are left with a sour taste in their mouths because they know they are cutting themselves off from other fun options in the middle part of the tree.

  2. Blood Frenzy is too low in the tree. This talent is a MASSIVE part of of Guardian rage generation, especially in multi-target situations. It being a row 9 talent feels poor considering how important the passive is to the spec. Moving it up the tree, even keeping the choice node to a spot like Reinforced Fur or connecting more centrally near the top of the tree would make the ability to get this talent feel very free.

  3. Dead talents: Front of the Pack, Infected Wounds, Ursoc’s Endurance and Improved Survival Instincts all have 0 value in almost every build I’ve made or seen others make. ISI should just be baked into SI for Guardian as the second charge is what makes it unique against feral’s version of SI. The other talents simply do not do enough compared to other talents even in their own rows. I know tuning is still happening but I don’t see a world that you can tune these to make them feel impactful in the tree.

  4. Reconnect the Moonfire talents: In the first form of the tree, this allowed for a very focused playstyle. However once the second, and so far final, iteration of the tree released, these talents were disconnected for reasons never explained. Not only were they disconnected, they were split into two different parts of the tree making it tough to get all 5 if you want to go down the left or right side of the trees to get capstones there. The “reintroduction” of these talents has given guardian a more active gameplay that is genuinely fun. Making the core fun of the gameplay feel powerful would make the spec more attractive and give it a stronger, more focused form of offensive gameplay.

  5. Vulnerable Flesh - This talent is boring, is RNG with crit already not being very valuable to Guardian druid and should be swapped with Vicious cycle so that it becomes optional for those that want to lean into the heaviest single target damage build. Vicious Cycle adds an element of tracking your maul buff to maximize the damage.

  6. Mythic+ build has a much more bloated build compared to a generally accepted raid build. Being forced to take 3 points into Pawsitive outlook and Earthwarden while also getting the Moonfire talents and then have to take Reinforced Fur and Layered Mane in order to take a single point into the previously mentioned moonfire talents feels restrictive. Investing 4 points into pure defensive talents (EF, LM, Earth) just to access the middle of the tree doesn’t feel great. This can be fixed by connecting all these “dead end” talents and fixing the pathing.

The following points speak to guardian druid more holistically as things I think should be evaluated as we move forward into Dragonflight and its future patches.

  1. Lack of Complexity - I know it’s been stated on record that Guardian is seen as the “beginner’s tank.” I respect this idea, especially for a role that is the lowest played. However, I think this thinking is also boxing the spec into a space that will keep it forever behind the viability of other tanks. I believe there’s space to add a higher skill ceiling to the spec without impacting its floor. Vicious cycle kind of fills that role but adding more interaction within the kit can also keep the simple playstyle in place but allows veteran bear lovers to push the spec in ways beginners won’t. All other tanks have this type of potential except guardian.

  2. Ironfur and Maul: Both of these “spenders” feel like they lack something that makes them feel good to press. Maul has never done enough damage and has no interaction with the kit (partially fixed in DF). You never press it in multi target situations because there’s no reason ever to do so. Adding a 2 target cleave to maul talent gives it a unique niche in the kit, if combined with things like Tooth and Claw. Ironfur just goes from making you get hit to getting hit less hard. It doesn’t have the “pop” moment like Death Strike, Celestial Brew, or even Shield Block does. It’s a bland, boring maintenance buff.

Thank you!

5 Likes

Oh! Sorry , I dont play cat. But this is just further to throw at Blizz - Why cant Bear do Regrowth too? :frowning: Why do they hate us so much.

I mean we do have FR in our form and they don’t but shoot having a free Regrowth would be dope too

1 Like

Honestly I’m not sure how useful regrowth would be for bear. To be clear, I’m not opposed to some PS like functionality to allow you to cast it. But honestly it does so little healing in the context of a tank that the GCD you’d spend on it is probably better suited generating rage toward your next fur.

2 Likes

Greetings, Balance Druids.

After reviewing the performance of Balance Druids during yesterday’s raid testing, we developed a number of changes we’re implementing for today’s raid testing. If you encounter issues with your Talent Tree, please relog. Here are the changes:

  • Lunar Shrapnel has been redesigned:

    • Starfall’s stars have a chance to deal an additional 25% damage to nearby enemies when they damage an enemy afflicted by Moonfire. Deals reduced damage beyond 8 targets.
  • Sundered Firmament’s Astral Power generation now correctly grants 25% of Fury of Elune’s Astral Power generation.

  • Stellar Flare no longer generates Astral Power when granted by Stellar Inspiration.

  • The chance for Shooting Stars to occur has been reduced.

  • Wild Mushrooms no longer have nameplates and are now untargetable.

  • Furor has been redesigned:

    • Protector of the Pack [Feral/Balance/Guardian] - Store 10% of your damage, up to a specific amount. Your next Regrowth consumes all stored damage to increase its healing.

    • Protector of the Pack [Restoration] - Store 10% of your effective healing, up to a specific amount. Your next Regrowth consumes all stored healing to increase its healing.

    • Note: The tooltip of Protector of the Pack will appear broken in-game. We hope to have this fixed soon.

Our main goal with these changes is to rein in the amount of Astral Power that Balance Druids are generating passively, as well as how much Astral Power is being credited to passives such as Primordial Arcanic Pulsar.

Thank you for your continued feedback and suggestions! We’ll continue to watch class performance across the board and adjust whenever the need arises.

4 Likes

I don’t think it should be very hard. If the rest of the rotation feels fine, weaving is a tuning problem. They could simply make cat autos do more or even better nerf the balance spells.

Uhm…Hey Frozzo?

Perfect timing - we were just talking about this…

I take this to mean y’all are gonna let us cast Regrowth in bear form yeah?

Otherwise…what use is this to us?

19 Likes

Unless Predatory swiftness is baseline for Feral or we can cast regrowth in cat form this is kinda pointless for us as well as Bear.

10 Likes

Good riddance. Thank you.

8 Likes

Ok nice.

Now the class tree sucks for everyone.

Thanks a lot.

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When do we get to see Guardian Druid spec tree and general Druid class tree changes?

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the good news is that this shows they are stiill iterating on trees

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I don’t think they actually care what Guardian Druids do, since they’re clearly not actually iterating anything around them. :slight_smile:

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You’re correct, but they’ve yet to show Guardian Druid tree being iterated on, nor have they even mentioned it. I’m sure it is being iterated on, just would like even a “we are working on it, we hear you” kind of thing, since even that would make people feel actually heard.

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Kill Owlweaving for Feral. Thanks in advance.

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Could u make Stellar Flare instant cast pls?

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Eh? You’re probably going to take PS most of the time anyway. It’s okay to have talents which have synergy with others.

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This is much worse.

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No, what this shows is that Balance was very very powerful in raid testing with a stupid unintended build, so they broke that build with this Furor replacement and made it actually worthless for every spec. Like, THIS is a capstone?

8 Likes