FEEDBACK: Druid Class Changes

I actually like the idea of Druid land travel form being slightly slower than regular mounts because I like using mounts and they’re pretty a much non-choice compared to an instant cast, daze-dismount immune form. I preferred travel when it was a ghost wolf analogue before the mount speed glyph was baselined.

Flight being nerfed though, is baffling. In that case pretty much all flying mounts are very similiar and dismounting pretty much doesnt happen so the Druid advantage is much smaller and choosing a mount instead was a lot more viable particularly with mount equipment. Not sure why this is a lower speed now.

2 Likes

Hey there! Apeu of Area 52 here, longtime resto druid player. Here’s some feedback about things I’ve noticed while playing resto on the beta (mostly night fae but I have a druid in each covenant and have tested them fairly well):

Convoke the spirits

  • This spell has some inconsistencies still; it has used Flourish and Full Moon in their respective forms even though neither spell is listed as usable in the tooltip and can be very swaying in the outcome if either one was to occur at an opportune time.
  • The change that allows us to move while casting is fantastic and has been amazing to play.

Other changes

  • Innervate: the spell’s use is completely unchanged in 5 man content such as mythic+ but now pretty much requires us to use it on a friendly healer while in a raid to max out the benefit.

While this is a cool idea, it falls short in action because this is both our output and mana cooldown, and is now effectively nerfed by 50% in raid and the full benefit is given to someone else on top of that.

There needs to be symbiotic incentive for this spell to go on another player, and not just a simple “buy one, get one 50% off” effect. If it were to continue to be in this form, the minimum it would need to give is the full 12 seconds of free casting to both the druid and their friendly healer, since it effectively is no different than a balance druid’s innervate.

  • Overgrowth: This talent makes zero sense where it has been placed, which is the exact same issue that Stonebark had when it had this slot. Why is a single target heal in a row with varied AoE heals rather than being in the level 15 row? I think it would make sense to make this purely a PvP talent again and give an AoE defensive option in that row (which we don’t have yet) perhaps something that doubles the CD of ironbark but makes its effect a 20 yd radius around the target.

  • Germination: This talent falls short compared to its competitors in the level 50 row. What I think it needs is a passive we used to have that reduced the GCD caused by casting rejuv in order to enhance the blanket-the-raid playstyle (and would be great with the new spreading rejuv legendary)

Thanks for reading and look forward to more upcoming changes and to finally get those conduits! :slight_smile:

12 Likes

Some balance druid feedback.

I haven’t played balance for long, i’ve only ever dabbled with it. However I main ele shaman, aotc each tier since legion, etc, etc.

Playing boomkin on beta has been super fun. The one lackluster thing about the new eclipse system (different than live), is that it doesn’t feel impactful going into an eclipse. On live, you’re astral power goes up, you hit a big starsurge then can press either wrath or starfire. I actually really like the idea of eclipse coming back (reminds me of cata/MOP boomkin–when i pvp’d with it a ton).

All of these idea’s seem pretty good.

I’ve actually always liked boomy, but it is slightly more boring in gameplay than ele (at least for me), but I see the ecipse system as being able to improve upon a linear gameplay. I think having going into an eclipse do something will make it feel more impactful.

5 Likes

Balance is very boring as is. There are a lot of buttons you can press, sure, but the actual eclipse system just feels like an on-rails keep DoT’s up and spam Starsurge into your preferred eclipse window. AoE feels more fun with all the sparkles and increase to DoT duration. But I’m struggling to find something enjoyable with how you rotate in and out of solar/lunar eclipse. No part of the system feels fun because I’m pooling Astral Power to spend on extending my Eclipse that I’m going to be in anyway. There feels like NO payoff with the system as is.

6 Likes

This is intended btw.

Some feedback regarding the Balance druid legendaries that was added in the previous cycle, after having played with it for a week.

Timeworn Dreamcatcher

(aka “ED”)

I’m torn on this. It’s hard to give this legendary a good opinion with such low stats we currently have.

One of the most annoying problems: Convoke the Spirits does not proc a stack of ED (if it casts Starsurge). It would be nice QoL if my first Convoke could setup max stacks (as it will almost always cast 2 SS)

Currently, this legendary is anti-synergistic with some of the issues the spec has, being mostly: Haste scaling.

  • ED, like it’s Legion counterpart, rewarded Haste to a high degree until you were at the point you could comfortable maintain the desirable uptime. However,
  • Starfall still does not scale with haste. It is a flat 11 ticks over 10 seconds (with Stellar Drift) regardless of haste level. No tick rate scaling or partial ticks like many other “over time” effects in the game.
  • So together we essentially get a situation where if you gear for ED, it feels a lot worse to cast Starfall. If you gear not for ED, ED becomes kind of miserable to use.
  • Convoke also doesn’t scale with haste, you cast a static 16 spells over a static 4 seconds. One of those changing to be haste-scaled would be a nice change.

There’s also some anti-synergy in that you don’t actually want to have 100% uptime, because that would imply Starsurging outside of Eclipse, this also sort of leans towards a playstyle not entering an Eclipse before being max AP, even if that means casting abilities that don’t count towards an Eclipse

The ED rotation isn’t fleshed out, so this is all speculative and subject to change, but it currently feels and seems like it will continue to be awkward to use in the class’ current state.

If the intended use case of this legendary is to never be used until second or third tier level of secondaries (when we can have a healthy amount of haste and mastery with no real loss of the other), then this is potentially fine as-is.

Balance Runecarve 3

(The crit-on-entering-Eclipse-legendary)

I won’t lie, this legendary is really satisfying to use. It looks to pair with Convoke ludicrously well too. It feels like our best legendary by a good margin, with Oneth’s being a little bit behind.

However, upon playing with it for most of the week, it became more and more apparently how weird this legendary is to the rotation. Because you gain its benefits on entering Eclipse, you are rewarded for having low duration eclipses to maximize the uptime of the buff.

Disclaimer: The points below may not even be bad design, it’s just food for thought/discussion going forward.

We may end up casting Starfall on single target (with Stellar Drift) – Because we’re rewarded for the shortest length Eclipses, we don’t actually want to cast Starsurge, since it will extend our eclipse and lower the buff’s uptime. The only Starsurges we cast are during Convoke and Incarn/CA

Soul of the Forest becomes a dead talent just by using it – for similar reasons as above, SotF extends our eclipses by default and devalues the legendary by a lot.

Convoking in your CA/Incarn becomes mandatory – Since convoking a regular eclipse will extend to upwards of 30-40 seconds, it’s actually a DPS loss to cast Convoke the Spirits within a non-Incarn/CA window since that’s 30-40 seconds we won’t benefit from the crit buff.

Other minor notes to this build, though:

  • Benefit: Almost 100% uptime on Starfall for permanent movement casting
  • Benefit: It makes our burst DPS unrivaled (particularly ST) with Incarn -> immediate Convoke, similar to how something like double on-use fire mages works now
  • Benefit: Eclipses feel really, really good to enter now
  • Downside: Focusing priority targets with SS lowers our ST dps a fair amount

Going forward

To wrap-up, some notes about potential changes/tweaks/fixes/whatever for the Runecarve legendary stuff I mentioned above.

  • Option 1: Nothing. The legendary does feel good to play and is really powerful, even if it has some weird quirks to it. Diversity isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
  • Option 2: Make the crit scale with duration, instead of decay after X seconds. So instead of 105% decaying every 15%, make it start at 0% and gain something like 2-5% crit per second in an Eclipse. This would reward the (what I assume is) intended gameplay of Eclipses
  • Option 3: Remove the legendary and bake something similar into Eclipses baseline. It’s kind of weird that I need to wear a legendary for Eclipses to feel satisfying to enter.
1 Like

Please undo Eclipses, there is still time, current boomkin “rotation” is so much better. Were people asking for Eclipses to be unpruned?

This is a direct blue quote from the shadow priest revamp; “From a gameplay standpoint, this was expressed as building up Insanity, entering Void Form, then battling against decaying Insanity to prolong your time in this powerful state.” Which is being scrapped because it’s not feasible. Eclipse is the same thing…

Build up insanty to enter voidform – cast spells to enter eclipse
Battle against decay to prolong voidform – battle against astral power to prolong eclipse

New legendaries are already messing with elipse, making you want to leave it for the next one asap instead of prolonging, very counter-intuitive. It’s already a problem. Revert the mastery, I beg you.

17 Likes

Blizzard class developers do NOT intercommunicate with each other.

Very insightful.

Except you use Astral Power to prolong Eclipse.

Yes. Which means the legendary should be changed. In addition, there needs to be some reinforcement to extending Eclipse beyond raw damage output. Something like a ramping buff – but not through a legendary. A ramping mechanic needs to be baseline.

Eclipse works fine. They just need to nerf Stellar Drift and roll that damage into Moonfire and Sunfire DOT damage. That will cover a bunch of single-target issues. Then they need to add a spell from Torghast as a PVP talent -> Reduce the spell casts needed to trigger Eclipse by 1 (down to 1).

4 Likes

As a long time feral player. I feel taking away the 2 charges of survival instinct is unnecessary, yet I understand if you want to make the distinction between feral and guardian.
That being said, with you taking away regrowth from our rotation (with bloodtalon), I feel you need to give us something else in return. I always see that regrowth as a part of our rotation helps our survivability and one of our many unnoticeable trait.

As many have mentioned above, ferals are very lacking in terms of utility compare to balance. Stampeding Roar are more of a luxury than a necessity, while ‘innervate’ is counted as a raid cooldown during boss encounter.

Casting rebirth as meele can be problematic during raid encounter, since we will not be at range a lot of times, balance/resto fills this roles better. And since rebirth/brez is a shared cooldown amongst other classes, I wouldnt classify this as a class utility, more of a raid-utility.
Comparing ourselves with other meele, we simply don’t bring enough to raid. We don’t have soak (like rogues,dh). We don’t bring buff (warrior,monk,dh). I don’t understand why you refuse to give us ‘leader of the pack’ and introduce a raid scroll like you did for battleshout.

Feral also requires substantial amount of crit to make their rotation smoother, with new sets of gear and us having low crit, this will affect our dps severely. I hope you don’t repeat what happened during BFA launch.

21 Likes

Predatory swiftness is still there, you still can use regrowth in your rotation. But with rework of bt you use it directly when needed for survivability. So please not again this “healing for dps” nonsence.

Still dunno why they have taken away ability to instantcast it via predatory swiftness.

10 Likes

Some feedback regarding the Balance druid overall after playing on beta for a 2-3 weeks.
Talents:

  • T15:

    • In my opinion Nature’s Balance is in okay position, especially with 50ap bonus at the start of the combat, the ap generation that comes from this talent is weak and should be buffed in some way or even reversed to pre nerf version.

    • Warrior of Elune fits well with the eclipse system, but it wasnt a talent to go for balance druid for a long time now, and it should get some love or should be replaced with something else that would give eclipses something special (for example cleave to wrath). I dont see in what scenario this talent could be better the Nature’s Balance or Force of Nature

    • Force of Nature is great ability that fits in druid fantasy. Good utillity spell, but weak in terms of dps gain. Potentially it should get some tweaks, for example if you cast that spell 10yd from opponents the treants start to cast starfire or wrath (depends on number of foes).

  • T25: Movement row, all talents have their niche and are great to play.

  • T30: I am happy with all changes here.

  • T35:

    • Mighty Bash and Mass Entanglement are good in terms of utillity that those 2 spells provides for balance druid.
    • Heart of the Wild is something that in my opinion should be in baseline of the class, it’s a long 5 min cd, on gcd and its really situational. I would add that spell to the baseline and in place of that talent give something that would reduce the cd of solar beam by 15s for example.
  • T40:

    • Soul of the Forest: In my opinion it’s interesting talent, but i don’t think that it can compete with other 2 in this row. Maybe adding the reduction of the starfall cost is a way to fix that problem or you could add something that would make eclipses more fun to be in.

    • Starlord is a stable choice for balance druid when we need some additional haste buff, I like how It determine our rotation.

    • Incarnation: great and very powerful 3min cd, nothing to add here.

  • T45:

    • Stellar Drift: great talent, fun to play. Additional 2sec duration + extra 25% dmg to starfall is great combined with the movement, its even better.

    • Twin moons: This is the talent that I have the most concerns about. It just feels like It should be in baseline. If starfall will be in good spot balance druid will never use that talent and vice versa If moonfire will be good and starfall weak (like in bfa) we wont use Stellar Drift. My idea to fix this problem is make it baseline and provide a talent that will buff our st in some way or something new to starfall or replace this talent with Warrior of Elune talent in T15.

    • Stellar Flare It’s another dot to manage and It feels boring to play, strongly ST talent.

  • T50

    • Shooting Stars: It’s a talent that remains passive and after the nerf can’t compete with Fury of Elune (even on ST) In my opinion the nerf should be undo.

    • Fury of Elune: it’s nice, fun to press cooldown, great on aoe.

    • New Moon: Next abillity that should be in baseline. We didn’t use it in BFA and it won’t change in SL. First of all it should be Astral damage not Arcane and the recharge rate should scale with haste.

Legendary Items:

  • Oneth’s Clear Vision: It was great legendary back in legion, but with changes implemented to Starfall it’s not that great anymore. The nerf makes it even worse. Fun to play but I think that It won’t work in new balance playstyle.

  • Primordial Arcanic Pulsar: Great legendary it terms of improving balance rotation. 400 AP with nerfs to all of our’s builders is a bit too much. (Maybe it should be 300-350AP).

  • Druid Balance Runcarve 3 (aka crit legendary): The best legendary so far. It makes our rotation on aoe great, in terms of single target starfall on ST is not that bad, especially with Stellar Drift talent, but I see that people can be a little suspicious about that. This legendary item is how eclipse system should work in my opinion. We should constantly “balance” between the two eclipses and not trying to extend one to infinite value (same problem that Spriest had)

  • Timeworn Dreamcatcher: I don’t see when we could use this legendary. It should be replaced with the Torghast Anima Power: Orbit Breaker.

Conduits:
I think that all of these conduits are good, except the 8% chance for extending an eclipse or dots. I’m really looking forward to see how they scale with ranks.

Covenants:
It’s really hard to compare all covenant spells to each other, because from how they look, they are meant to use in different situation. In my opinion Convoke is by far the most fun one, Kyrian is the most boring one. In terms of Kyrian covenant I would really love to see abillity that was provided in place of this covenant when we were playing Torghast in early stage of Alpha. It looked great.

TLDR:

  • Balance is in good spot. Starfall change was great and I really look forward to use it in dungeons :joy:.
  • I (and many other balance druids that are playing ) would love to see Twin Moons and New Moon in baseline. Those talents feels like they should be in normal toolkit of moonboy.
  • I would really love to see that Timeworn Dreamcatcher is replaced with Orbit Breaker.
  • The abillity that was in place of Kyrian Covenant spell in Alpha stage of Torghast seems cool, I guess that i could be use for a talent or extra spell for Boomkin.
7 Likes

I might be piling on a bit here, but wanted to add some thoughts on Guardian after testing it for a few weeks. I know we’re probably pretty late in the beta cycle for significant overhaul, so trying to think of this through the lens of what can be done relatively easily. Also not too concerned with tuning at this point.

Overall:

  • I think Guardian has a problem around why should I bring a bear over any other tank, and making stampeding and incapacitating roar baseline for the class has further eroded what little uniqueness Guardian had. Heart of the Wild with some additional tuning could be the answer for raid tanking, a tank that actually does decent damage when not actively tanking, but in M+ I’m really left at a loss. Hopefully some of my other points along the way can help out.

  • I think the comparison between Guardian and other tanks is made even worse by the deliberate design improvements made to the other tanks (specifically compared to Blood, Protection Paladin, and Brewmaster) to help address weaknesses. Guardian has remained rather stagnate while the rest of the tank community has evolved, and it wasn’t exactly in a wonderful shape at the end of BFA.

  • There are some immediate gaps in the spec design that could help out. Right now bears feel exceptionally weak at the start of the pull until they can get the rage to start rolling Ironfurs. I wonder if bringing back Enrage can help smooth out the start of pulls and ensure you have a chunk of rage to start with.

  • It is also very problematic that Guardian has no snares in their kit, which makes them unique among other tanks.

  • One possible solution to address Guardian’s identity crisis is to maybe push them to be strong in single target tanking, such as in raids and tyrannical M+. One way to do this is to make Pulverize baseline. This could help flush out the rather boring rotation of mangle and thrash spam.

  • Guardian feels punished for it’s hybrid nature since its mitigation is tied to bear form. This is especially true for situations like having to mount, or using spells like Soulshape that force you out of bear form.

  • A lot of the generic class components (Legendaries, Covenant abilities) seem to play into druid being a dot / hot class, but that doesn’t seem to exist for bears. I wonder if more emphasis could be put on our dots and hots to make it the spec fit in more with the class as a whole.

Talents:

  • Brambles feels bad. Even if the damage is buffed significantly, the interaction with the rest of the kit is lackluster. I don’t know if I want to turn one of my few defensive cooldowns into an offensive one. Keeping with the passive nature of the slot, I think replacing it with Bloody Paws from the artifact both gives druids a snare and a more interesting talent choice (ability to kite, passive rage, or burst rage).

  • I think a lot about the level 25 row. I think Wild Charge and Renewal are a good trade off in mobility and survivability, but tiger’s dash seems like the odd one out as it forces you out of bear form. I’m really not sure what the solution is here. Maybe a talent that lets you use Dash in Bear Form would be better and help in situations where you’d want to mount in bear form.

  • I generally like the changes to the affinity talents. While losing the ability to run both vortex and typhoon does hurt (and further buff Moonkin and Restoration over Feral / Guardian), it’s not the end of the world. I do like the choices in this talent row, although feral (and maim) seem the most lacking. Perhaps it’s the “I want to deal damage” choice of the row, but having to go into cat form to use maim is very punishing. I wonder if making Stampeding Roar unique to Feral and giving it as the option in Feral Affinity would work. Would be a little painful to lose it as Guardian (but could be addressed by giving baseline guardian more mobility), but it feels like it’s on that power level. I think the other options would have to be around giving feral more utility in some other way (Vanish or Shroud) and put it in that Maim slot.

  • I feel like Heart of the Wild needs a tuning pass. As a five minute cooldown, it doesn’t feel like it’s going to help out make Guardian feel more like it’s affinity role since it’s only going to be up once or twice in raid, and very difficult to use in M+. I wonder if turning it into a passive (swapping slots with Mighty Bash) and nerfing the effect is the way to go. The choice becomes do I want to be better in my off spec role (for raids, mostly), or have additional control of Bash / Entanglement.

  • I wonder if Mass Entanglement and Typhoon should swap across the class? Mass Entangle becoming baseline to balance (Affinity) and Typhoon being the 35 talent choice. I’m not sure what the balance implications are since I don’t play Balance very much.

  • Galactic Guardian and Soul of the Forest both seem to be at odds with each other for passive rage generation. I wonder if Soul of the Forest could be retuned as a cooldown reduction for Berserk. Having Berserk on a 3 minute cooldown feels very frustrating in M+ when most other specs are built around 2 minutes. It’d certainly make it more interesting choice of passive talent with galactic guardian, more frequent berserks with soul, and more powerful berserk with Incarnation.

  • I think the 45 row is fine, and just needs a tuning pass.

  • For the 50 row, I think Lunar Beam needs to move with you as it’s too easy to fire it and have it do very little. I think Rend and Tear is fine, if a little boring. And like I said, I think Pulverize should be made baseline. I think Rage of the Sleeper is a good fill in for this talent slot, perhaps just the base version that has DR + Thorns. It runs the risk of making Lunar Beam obsolete, but Lunar Beam also needs a big tuning pass.

Legendaries:

  • For being a generic legendary, Druid Runecarve 4 does very little to help the spec. Perhaps if Moonfire was given a passive DR attached to it and have that buffed by the legendary it’d help? Or perhaps Thrash needs to be added to the list?

  • I feel like Legacy of the Sleeper does not capture the fantasy of bringing back Rage of the Sleeper from Legion. To me, the joy of Rage of the Sleeper was giving the spec another cooldown to plan around. Baking it into Berserk just further pushes us into a 3 minute window where we’re strong and feel weak outside of it.

  • Guardian Runecarve 1 and 3 (Luffa Wrappings + Pawsitive Outlook) seem to be trying to do the same thing. I’m not sure why I’d want both of these legendaries are they both try to vaguely improve the value of thrash. I wonder if one of these should be removed / merged into the other, and a new legendary should be added that focuses on Frenzied Regeneration, perhaps buffing it’s duration.

  • I also think that the Legion legendary helm, back, and survival instinct ring are good options here

Covenant Abilities:

  • I am struck by how boring Kindred Spirits is. I think there are some interesting ideas behind it in raids, but in M+ / soloing I often forget it exists. I think that removing the requirement to create a bond ahead of time would make it feel much more dynamic, especially in M+.

  • I think Convoke the Spirits and Ravenous Frenzy are okay, especially after the changes that were made.

  • Adapative Swarm is another effect that seems to punish Guardian’s lack of focus on dots / hots. Frenzied Regeneration seems to be the optimal way to play this, but the very short duration on FR makes that difficult, and the very low damage of our dots makes the dps component lackluster.

Thanks, sorry for the long text block.

38 Likes

My intake for playing balance druid a little on the Beta:

New Eclipse system:
the way star surge extends your eclipse is nice, and allows you to keep your increase of Damage during a certain amount of time, and burst, while also allowing use of any pooled Astral power, the flaw of this is it has a random RNG element, and you need to fish using the opposite affinity spell to proc the Eclipse you are looking for, would love for a true Pendulum, if this could still happen? where it would just swing back and forth,

while casting wrath can proc Lunar Ecplipse, and Solar Wrath a Lunar Eclipse,
the power difference between them is quite big and will make for a fishing type of playstyle, where you do not cast the other spell, to make sure you proc the right eclipse, due to there possibly being an internal CD on ecplipse procs.

During CA it Procs both Eclipses, which is nice, but starsurges during CA will not extend your eclipses unsure if this intended, allowing it to extend them during CA will allow for an extension to your burst window through RNG/Luck or playing better, which i think would be a nice addition.

likewise, after CA is finished, there seems to be an internal CD, where i don’t get an eclipse again for at least another 30 seconds. unsure if this is intentional, but going 30 seconds without seeing one of our Core mechanics due to the new changes isn’t fun.

The burst window is currently insane for a Balance druid, but outside of our burst window, i feel i am lacking in any sustain that we may have, if i get unlucky on a single target with proccing the wrong eclipse, or vice versa on a multi target, the New change to starfall, having it cast as an AOE around you in 30 yards on all targets is a nice change to help increase our AOE capabailities, but it is lacking support.

Talent Trees:
Lvl 15 Row:
with the way astral power now works, through the extension of AOE damage using starfall, and the increase of Eclipses Through starsurges, All of our talents as Balance are closer in line to each other, but this also makes us want to possibly take the more controlled forms of Astral Power regen more often, due to it allowing us to extend a burst window, or instigate a burst window.
lvl 35 Row:
where typhoon was Made Baseline, and we got heart of the wild, i can see there being no other option for a M+ or a Raider in that section, just due to the increase it gives to Every single Affinity we choose, it kind of locks in that spot for us,
Lvl 40 Row:
I like the change to Soul of the Forest, it puts it more in line with Starlord, and Chosen of Elune, but just due to the increase of our Burst window, and Starlord being so good, i dont think we will see Chosen of elune picked unless there are tight checks, and we get a change to our scaling to make Crit more enticing,

Lvl 45 Row:
Stellar drift with the new change to Starfall, now makes this more or less the go to Talent, in most situations, it allows us to cast while chasing down targets, it allows for so many more playstyles, and has lowered the use of Twin Moons and Stellar flare a fair bit, Twin moons will still have use on multi target fights, and so will stellar flare on single target, low movement fights, but stellar drift should outweigh on heavy movement fights, just because of the recent starfall change.

Lvl 50 Row:
Shooting stars is still, a favourite for me, it allows a nice playstyle, and ties in well with Fury of elune in this row, for sustained, and burst AStral power regen, the only outlier i can see in this with the changes to balance druids is New Moon, this talent does insane amounts of Damage at current when in Full Moon, and allows for some nice Burst Damage to Astral power Regen, to Eclipse extending for very little effort, maybe changing New Moon to do less damage, would bring this row more inline with each other.

If only I said Astral Power. Oh wait. Eclipse shouldn’t be a rotational thing, it should be a cooldown. I was so excited for boomie but this is a bummer.

Celestial Alignment.

1 Like

I mean no disrespect, but I certainly hope that the following potency conduits are seriously not what is truly going to go live for Guardian:

Druid Potency Guardian 1
You gain 10% haste during Berserk.

Druid Potency Guardian 2
Mangle increases the damage of your next Maul by 10%, stacking up to 3.


Neither of these potency conduits seem appropriate at all; particularly when you look at the options that say Protection Warrior, Blood DK, and BrM Monk are getting as their options.

How is 10% haste for 15 seconds every 3 minutes worth it?
How is the Maul conduits to be used in solo challenging content, e.g. high M+?


Compare these

Protection Warrior

Unnvering Focus
Last Stand increases your rage generation by 30% up to 75%.

Show of Force
Revenge increases the damage of your next Thunderclap by 20% up to 40%.

Brewmaster Monk

Scaling Brew
Keg Smash deals an additional 20% damage up 50% while affected by Breath of Fire.

Walk with the Ox
Abilities that grant Shuffle reduce the cooldown on Invoke Niuzao by 0.5s and Niuzao’s stomp deals an additional 10% up to 25% damage.

Blood Death Knight

Withering Plague
Heart Strike deals 10% (up to 35%) increased damage to enemies infected by Blood Plague.

Debilitating Malady
Blood Boil increases damage enemies take from Blood Plague by 1% (up to 10%) for 65s, stacking up to 3 seconds.


As I said, I mean no disrespect but I genuinely want to understand why and the philosophy here. It ultimately feels like the designers want to alienate the Guardian community with these options compared to what I’ve presented for the other tanks thus far.

33 Likes

Theres no RNG in the eclipse system. cast 2 spells, get the opposite eclipse.
The casts required are clearly displayed on wrath/Starfire as a 2 then 1 gone when eclipse procs.

is that how it works? as i was legit spamming wrath looking for a lunar eclipse and wasnt getting it, and vice versa fishing for a Solar eclipse by using Lunar strike, i just wasnt getting eclipses.

Hey, I’m a mythic raider that plays a good bit of arenas and some mythic plus on the side for fun. I’ve been a balance druid main since the end of BC, and I also play a lot of resto and guardian as my offspecs. Below, I would like to provide a large amount of feedback on what I’ve seen from Balance since I’ve gotten my beta invite along with any suggestions that I’ve come up with for the spec. I may make an additional post later on with some resto and guardian feedback along with some generic feedback. It’s going to be a long one so I’ll try and bold some of the main points. (Edit: I really did end up writing way too much. Sorry)

Overall, I’m a big fan of most of the changes including going back to an eclipse system (though I do have some gripes with it.) There are, in my opinion, a few big problems with the spec:

  • Balance druids have absolutely zero interaction with critical strike. In addition, they have zero interaction with their dots outside of the shooting stars talent which feels very lackluster with the diminishing returns nerf that came in BFA. Most specs in the game have some type of interaction with crit built into their toolkit such as Guardian druid critical rating increasing their dodge, or Arms warrior critical auto-attacks generating extra rage. Many dot-based specs also have an interaction built into their dots and balance is one of the few exceptions as a spec with a traditionally heavy dot focus that has no such interaction at the moment. In the past (from Cata to the end of WoD) this was filled by the OLD shooting stars which was a baseline proc (talented in Cata, but one that “everybody” took) which had a chance to proc from its dot ticks and had an increased chance to proc from critical ticks. Blizzard even put diminishing returns on it in MoP which was fine since it was a much stronger proc at the time; if you were to compare it to the current day shooting stars, it would be like proccing 30 AP every time it went off.
  • Balance druid dots are very weak at the moment, especially for a spec that has had such a focus on its dots. We lost stellar empowerment going into BFA, though we retained a decent amount of power from them with a base empowerment from our mastery. Twin Moons (and thus moonfire) was nerfed in Uldir since it was played in every situation though this was mostly because stellar drift and stellar flare were too weak to be taken. Balance druids had their dots nerfed again by about 10% going into Ny’alotha with some power put into the moonfire and sunfire azerite traits to compensate a bit, but we won’t be having those azerite traits in Shadowlands . In addition, with the changes to our mastery going into shadowlands, our mastery’s amplification to our dots is nerfed by about 50% since moonfire is only buffed in lunar eclipse and sunfire in solar eclipse making for another significant nerf to our dots. For example, let’s say that my mastery in BFA buffs my moonfire by 30% all the time; in shadowlands (at 30% mastery) with a lunar eclipse uptime of about 50%, I’m only getting that buff to my moonfire for half of the fight meaning my mastery is only increasing my moonfire damage by about 15% over the duration of the fight.

My suggestion to these problems is this: tune the base damage of moonfire and sunfire up a bit and add Shooting Stars as a baseline ability. It felt lackluster in BFA and was nerfed even more going into Shadowlands. The reason it was taken so much in BFA was because the entire row was fairly weak. Keep the diminishing returns on the ability BUT add the old interaction of critical ticks having an increased chance to proc shooting stars. This would create a healthy interaction for balance druids with critical strike and for their dots. It would also add in a small amount of RNG which would be nice. A little RNG is nice, we just don’t want too much and balance in shadowlands has no RNG without shooting stars and it can be a bit boring to play with zero RNG.

The next big problem, which has probably been reported more than enough by now, is that CA is currently bugged. For the unaware, using CA during an eclipse will cause the ability to cancel the eclipse AND cancel CA. This bug also extends to the Primordial Arcanic Pulsar legendary. (EDIT: it looks like the CA bug was fixed on the beta this week.)

I do have a suggestion for CA/Incarnation. CA feels stronger as a 3-minute CD than it did in Legion/BFA as just a 15% damage/haste amp. It feels pretty odd however that it gives balance druids a 15% increased crit chance when they don’t have any actual interaction with crits. Even the suggested critical tick interaction for shooting stars that I talked about above wouldn’t be too hugely affected by this. Incarnation feels ok with the 15% haste and increased 10 second uptime tacked on. My suggestion is to make CA increase our mastery instead of our crit by 15% since we have much more interaction with our mastery currently and CA/Incarnation is when mastery is at it’s most valuable to a balance druid. Leave Incarnation with the haste amp and increased time but with a 15% mastery amp instead of the crit amplifier.

The next thing I would like to talk about is starfall. Let’s get this out of the way, I’m a big fan of the change in starfall back to a WoD-like iteration of the ability and the dot extension feels pretty nice for extended aoe (though it doesn’t really help the initial ramp-up time.) I’ve seen a lot of feedback from players wanting the ability to be able to have more than one starfall active at a time. I disagree . I don’t think that starfall should be able to be stacked since it would have to be tuned down to bring it into line with other class’s aoe. In the past, you could only have one starfall active at a time since it was a buff from its initial appearance in the Wrath pre-patch up to the ability’s change to an astral power spender in the Legion pre-patch and we are now back to a starfall similar to its previous design. On the other hand, there are two problems with the ability that I think should be changed. Currently, the ability cannot be extended with the pandemic effect meaning that if I use starfall again with one second left on the previous starfall, I will lose that one second of the ability instead of having it extend to a duration of nine seconds as it should be (I’m using the base duration of 8 seconds for this example.) This feels very clunky since most duration abilities such as dots, hots, and buffs have been affected by the pandemic effect since it was added about 6 years ago at the end of MoP. Secondly, there is a scaling problem with starfall not being affected by haste which I believe it should be again. The ability is not going to scale well later into Shadowlands if it does not scale with haste. I’m not against having to use a few starsurges in aoe while I have starfall active, but we’re going to be using too many if starfall isn’t changed to be affected by haste again. It was previously affected by haste until it was changed in early Legion which was balanced by the fact that it allowed for more uptime with stellar empowerment and could be stacked. However, stellar empowerment was removed and it is back to its original design as a buff of which only one can be active at a time. As I said, it’s not going to scale well at all if the tick rate and/or duration are completely unaffected by haste.

The final general balance issue I wanted to talk about is a small bug I noticed with instant-cast starfires due to the Owlkin Frenzy proc . I noticed that if I procced an instant cast starfire because of the Owlkin Frenzy proc and used it (outside of eclipse) to fire a second starfire at the end of a starfire that’s already being cast, the game won’t count the instant cast starfire as being counted towards entering the next solar eclipse. I assume this is because the game is missing it due to two starfires going off on a target so close together since I’m essentially hitting the target with two starfires at the same time. I know that it does count towards your solar eclipse if you instant cast a starfire regularly and not on the back of an already casting starfire.

Next, I’ll go over the balance druid talents with an eye for underperforming or problematic abilities that I think should be changed or tuned in some way.

Level 15 Talents:

  • Nature’s Balance is perfectly fine for its purpose as passive AP generation.
  • Force of Nature is great for balance druids as a great form of tanking utility both in group content and in solo content. However, the damage from the ability seems fairly weak and I would like to see it tuned up a little bit to provide slightly better single target burst. It shouldn’t be too much of an issue since the ability is unable to scale its damage onto multiple targets since it’s just a bunch of treants auto-attacking targets.
  • The real problem of this row is Warrior of Elune. It’s a fun ability, but it isn’t used very often because it’s not very strong and the other two abilities provide either better throughput or better utility most of the time. It should be easier to use when lined up with a lunar eclipse as opposed to the empowerment system of the last two expansions, but Nature’s Balance and Force of Nature are still really strong choices. My suggested change is this: change the CD to 1 minute (from 45 seconds) to better line up with balance druid’s other abilities and buff the Warrior of Elune ability such that the next 3 starfires are instant cast, have a 20% increased crit chance, and generate 5 additional astral power. I think this would bring the WoE in line with the other two abilities in terms of power while better fulfilling its niche as burst aoe and/or a few intant casts to use while moving.

Level 25 Talents:

  • Wild Charge is definitely the best talent in the row for the majority of situations right now and feels like it’s in a great place for movement utility.
  • Renewal fills its niche as a burst self-heal at the cost of some movement utility.
  • The problem in this row is Tiger Dash and the main problem with Tiger Dash for all specs is that it replaces Dash. It ties our burst-movement ability to a 45 second CD and replaces Dash which can be very valuable as a good movement ability so that the only good movement ability we might have is tiger dash. And if we’re indoors and can’t use travel form, this can really take away our ability to navigate around a fight easily, especially if the movement is required more often than once every 45 seconds. You can also be rooted and/or slowed during Tiger Dash which feels like a massive waste. My suggestion is either to make it not replace regular Dash and increase the CD to either 60 or 90 seconds to balance the ability with Druids having two speed increases, or to keep it mostly as is and add a freedom effect to the ability such that the druid can’t be rooted or slowed while tiger dash is active which would give it a good niche use.

Level 30 Talents:

The affinity talents all feel like they’re in a good spot for balance and it’s nice to have typhoon back baseline as it was originally added as a balance only talent in Wrath. Feral affinity isn’t going to give us much utility besides the base speed increase since we’re already a damage spec but that’s fine. Guardian druids feel a bit awkward though no longer being able to pick up both Typhoon and Ursol’s Vortex for the same combo that Balance and Resto druids can now use.

Level 35 Talents also seem to be in a good place and I have no real complaints. Heart of the Wild definitely isn’t as strong as it once was in MoP without the ability to use a HotW + Tranquility for big raid healing as I often did in MoP on certain fights.

Level 40 Talents:

  • Soul of the Forest feels pretty useless as a talent since we’re in eclipse so much anyways and there’s no real incentive to extend an eclipse for a long period of time. This looked like a much stronger ability in early alpha when it was planned that CA was able to be extended before it was changed back to a 20 second duration that can’t be extended. In addition, the current best balance legendary, the balance runecarve 3 (the eclipse crit buff legendary,) discourages extending eclipses since you want to cycle eclipses as fast as possible for the crit buff. More on that legendary later. This talent seems like either a damage neutral or, with the crit legendary, a damage loss with the only real gain being the reduced cast time for wrath and starfire. But, starlord will probably give you better haste overall anyways.
  • Starlord and Incarnation are both in good places right now and will be fine. Starlord should scale well and Incarnation feels pretty good to use, especially if the crit buff is changed to a mastery buff as I suggested earlier.

Level 45 Talents:

  • Stellar Drift is a little bit overtuned right now and is by far the best option for any aoe/cleave with how little damage moonfire (and thus twin moons) is doing in Shadowlands. It’s a little too good at the moment so I suggest a small nerf from the 25% buff to starfall damage down to a 20% buff to starfall damage . I would caution against hitting it too hard with the nerf-hammer as it needs a smaller nerf, not to be deleted like it’s a subtlety rogue in BFA.
  • Twin Moons is in a bad place right now, but it’s a good talent overall by design. Moonfire just needs to be tuned up and/or the nerf to twin moons from back in Uldir needs to be reverted . It was nerfed from a 15% moonfire amp to a 10% amp because it was too dominant at the time. I didn’t like it at the time as the reason everybody used it was because stellar flare has always been lackluster and stellar drift was never going to be picked as a talent in BFA with the state of starfall all expansion.
  • Stellar Flare feels pretty lackluster and it has always felt pretty lackluster since it’s addition to the game in WoD. It’s used as single target to two target talent and even then, it feels pretty bad to use since it does a decent amount less damage than either moonfire or sunfire. My suggestion is this: significantly buff the damage to stellar flare such that it does maybe double or more the current damage that it does now and then make it so that it has a limit of one target the same way that Affliction Warlock’s unstable affliction has a limit of one target in shadowlands . It would feel much better to use as a strong dot limited to being used on a single target. It would secure its place as a great single target talent or even a good ability to use in a multi-target fight if there’s a target that needs to have more damage focused into it.

Level 50 Talents:

  • I’ve already written a lot earlier about what I think should be changed about shooting stars. I really think that it, out of all the talents in this talent tree, should be baselined into the balance toolkit and I know I’m not the only one to think so after reading so many of the posts in the Shadowlands druid feedback and balance feedback threads. I also would like to see the critical tick interaction put back into shooting stars. At the very least, if this remains a talent instead of baseline, it needs to be buffed because as it is now, it’s extremely underwhelming and lackluster after being nerfed again. Adding the critical tick interaction back into the ability could be a good middle ground to buffing the ability while keeping the diminishing returns.
  • Fury of Elune has always been a lot of fun to use and was useful for burst cleave. I was a bit annoyed with the nerf to the cleave damage since it hasn’t exactly been hitting like a bladestorm since the BFA redesign, but nevertheless, it’s in a better spot now than it was. The reason being is that it was never affected by mastery before and with the balance redesign with a changed mastery, it is now a strong ability as long as it is used during an eclipse and seems to be very strong during CA/Incarnation because of double-dipping mastery. My only suggestion is that as a talent in the final talent row, it could be tuned up a little bit more to be more impactful since it’s still not exactly a bladestorm or breath of sindragosa level of cleave cooldown.
  • New Moon / Full Moon has been one of my favorite spells since it was added in legion, but like Fury of Elune, it wasn’t affected by balance druid mastery in the past. It’s in a better spot now and offers some pretty good burst damage when used in lunar eclipse and CA/Incarnation for the buff from mastery along with having some good burst astral power. It’s still underperforming a bit and, ideally, should be a clear choice over Fury of Elune in single target, which it is not right now. I’ve heard quite a few suggestions to change the spell type to astral instead of arcane so that it can be better used in solar eclipse as well and double-dip with mastery during CA/Incarnation. I don’t know if I want it to be astral damage since it would be a lot rougher to use in pvp with the risk of being locked out of all of our spell schools if interrupted. I’m sure a few balance druids remember being interrupted on a starsurge cast during Cataclysm or MoP and being locked out of doing anything for a few seconds and Full Moon will be a good spell to interrupt in pvp if you’re not a pro fake-caster. My suggestion is this: revert the recharge CD of the moon spells to 20 seconds as it was in Legion instead of the 25 second recharge that it was changed to in BFA. Saving charges to use during lunar eclipse and CA/Incarnation seems like decent gameplay for this talent. (Edit: It looks like I was wrong, I forgot that it did astral damage in Legion and after thinking about it some more, changing it back to astral damage would probably be best, even more than changing the CD.)
  • I’m really hoping that Shooting stars becomes baseline. If it does my suggested replacement talent is Astral Communion. Make it a 1-minute CD that generates 60 or 70 astral power instantly, or just make it so that Astral Communion makes your next two astral power spenders free to use. It’s a good throwback to an old ability that balance druids used to have with a new design similar to the legion version of the talent but with a shorter CD.

Covenant Abilities Feedback:

  • The Kyrian druid ability Kindred Spirits seems pretty boring to use and in my opinion is a miss overall. You’re almost always going to use it on another dps (or yourself) so that you get the damage boost from them during their cds. The last I saw it in Tettles youtube video, it simmed pretty well at second place, I think. Maybe I’m just disappointed because I was hoping for symbiosis, but it seems pretty lackluster for all druid specs in my opinion.
  • The Phials of Serenity from the Kyrian summon steward ability seems to be decently strong in the upcoming raid tier (probably by design) since there are a lot of bleeds and debuffs you can remove with it. My complaint is that it eats your health potion CD when used which doesn’t seem that good since you’re supposed to be gaining an ability from the covenant, not trading the ability to use a health potion on a fight. It also recharges the same way as a health pot so it’s only one phial use per fight unless you can drop combat long enough to get it recharging.
  • The Necrolord ability Adaptive Swarm also seems pretty boring to use and it doesn’t scale well past one target. It’s essentially an extra dot on a CD that amplifies your other dots by 20%. This is particularly lackluster right now because of the low damage from balance druid dots in the current beta build so we’re not getting much benefit from it. Moreover, you can only ever have two Adaptive Swarms out at a time and the real strength of our dots (assuming decent tuning) is in multi-dotting and Adaptive Swarm will only affect 1 to 2 targets at a time. It might be decent if balance druid dots are tuned up and my suggestion of making stellar flare a strong dot that has a limit of one target is used, but probably not enough to win over Venthyr or Night Fae. Something to keep an eye out for is that a periodic effect from a trinket like the Forbidden Obsidian Claw might be buffed by it as well. Another negative thing about the ability, is that it can only chain to a new target that is within 25 yards which seems pretty short. It’s not going to spread well when targets are spread out and if it chooses to heal a party member who ends up farther than 25 yards away after the hot, it won’t jump to a new target to damage. I suggest changing it to have the ability to jump farther than 25 yards.
  • Fleshcraft is a nice shield, but the 4 second channel is a big negative for this ability. Balance druids are already fairly tanky with Barkskin, bear form, and self-healing. The CC immunity from the Plague Deviser Marelith soulbind during the fleshcraft cast seems pretty decent though and could be useful in certain situations. A shorter channeling time would help this ability a lot.
  • The Venthyr ability Ravenous Frenzy seems pretty good as a ramping CD that lines up perfectly with balance druid’s CA/Incarnation and it should end up scaling well as the Shadowlands expansion drags on. However, my major complaint is the seemingly unnecessary penalty from “going idle.” You really do have to be casting the whole time as even if you’re running back and forth when you can’t be hitting something, it will still count you as idle and penalize you. There are going to be situations where it is just not very good such as pvp or pve fights where you might get crowd controlled by a mechanic for a few seconds or a mechanic that requires you to run out of the group and drop off a mechanic (of which there seem to be a few in Castle Nathria.) It doesn’t even seem like a strong enough ability that it requires that kind of penalty. Warriors get Condemn, but I don’t see them getting stunned and chunked for a decent percentage of health if they don’t use Condemn right on cooldown. I suggest nerfing the penalty so that Ravenous Frenzy is removed from the player early if they go idle and maybe a slow effect when it does.
  • Door of Shadows from the Venthyr is a pretty good ability. The ability to teleport to a chosen location within 35 yards is always going to be pretty strong, even if you have to cast it. No complaints about this ability at all, though it would be cool if Astral Influence extended the range. If you’re worried that you’re going to need to be Venthyr to do mythic plus skips with this ability, remember that you have this cool ability called stealth that you can already use for most skips anyways. Also, you can pick up a Shadowmeld from a Night Fae soulbind.
  • Night Fae’s Convoke the Spirits seems to be the clear winner both in terms of being a satisfying button press and in terms of damage in the beta with great burst potential. I think this ability is great with all the work that has been put into it so far. I only really see two minor things. I really wish it would prefer to moonfire more targets in a multi-target situation instead of trying to thrash, especially since it will sometimes keep trying to thrash if you run out of melee range (which is decently large because of Astral Influence.) I’ve also heard that it can waste damage trying to cast into targets that are immune to damage. I can only imagine using it in Freehold on the pack by the Ring of Booty and watching it send a bunch of spells into the target dummies. There should be some nuance as to when to use it, such as saving it a few seconds to let your healers pick the raid’s health up after a mechanic so it doesn’t try to use healing spells on low health raid members. Or maybe you do want to use it to heal if that’s what is needed to get a kill on a progression raid boss. It’s pretty versatile now that it prefers abilities based on your shapeshift form.
  • Soulshape is a decent movement utility especially with the buff to the blink and the ability to blink multiple times which can be used to dodge some mechanics. And movement utility is always good. It provides even better utility with a Shadowmeld function from the Niya Soulbind when the effect ends. I do recommend that you make a /cancelaura macro for it though since it behaves oddly with shapeshift forms when exited. It’s supposed to shift you back to your previous form which it will if it times out or if you cancel it with a macro or manually. However, if you try to shift back to moonkin form out of it, it will cancel the form and shift you into regular caster form.

Legendary Items:

Balance Specific first:

  • Oneth’s Clear Vision is a returning favorite, but it’s been seemingly nerfed a bit too much from its Legion counterpart. The nerf from a 20% proc to a 15% proc is pretty rough right now and we’re not seeing a lot of procs right now at all. I’d really suggest bringing it back up to 20% since it’s not like we’re going to be able to go crazy with procs with it . If it ends up scaling too well later in Shadowlands, it can always be brought back down to a 15% chance, but it feels like poor logic to have to wait half the expansion to scale into it before it’s very good instead of tuning it to what it was previously. As for the proc duration, I agree that a permanent buff was probably too much, but a short 15 second buff is far too little. It can’t be easily carried between packs if you proc near the end of a group of targets you’re currently attacking. I would suggest making it a 30 second buff which would give players more leeway to use the proc well without being able to cheese it for too long.
  • Primordial Arcanic Pulsar is another legendary that seems like it should be very good in multiple situations after a fix to the CA bug. I’ll have to test if it will property extend the eclipses of CA/Incarnation if it procs during our CDs. The last time I checked, it added to the Incarnation buff but not to the eclipses which added no additional time and caused it to bug out a bit since the Incarnation buff was expiring 9 seconds after the double eclipses. However, my primary critique on this legendary is that I think the astral power cost was tuned wrong . With the azerite trait, balance druids had to cast 9 starsurges to proc the ability which equated to 360 AP in BFA. It’s great that it took some of the power away from starsurge to let starfall count towards this effect too, but 400 seems too much after the astral power generation was tuned down for Shadowlands. In Shadowlands, you would need to cast 14 starsurges to activate the 9 second CA which seems too much, especially if you consider that a legendary item should be stronger than a single azerite trait that you only want one of. I suggest that the arcanic pulsar legendary should activate CA after 300 astral power is spent which would equate to exactly 10 starsurges or 6 starfalls which would be more on point for the amount you had to spend in BFA to activate the ability which was 9 starsurges . This legendary may become incredible overpowered depending on how it reacts to the Potency Balance 3 soul conduit that was shown on Wowhead earlier this week which extends the duration of CA based on the rank of the conduit starting at 4 seconds.
  • Balance Runecarve 3 (aka: Overtuned Eclipse Crit buff) is right now the best legendary in beta simply because of how powerful having 100% crit chance is for a few seconds. It gives excellent on-demand burst whenever you enter an eclipse , but a big problem is that it promotes a “degenerate” style of play in which you want to cycle eclipses as fast as possible to keep the Crit buff up as much as possible meaning no extending eclipses if possible. You’ll probably end up using Stellar Drift starfalls on single target with starsurges only being used for priority damage during the crit buff or during CA/Incarnation. It also kills the Soul of the Forest talent, and we know that Blizz doesn’t like balance druids using starfall in single target. It’s a strong effect (a little too strong right now) and lowers the value of haste and crit significantly. I think it either needs to be scrapped or redesigned. My suggested redesign is this: Eclipse increases your critical strike chance by 10% and wraths and starfires that critically strike during their respective eclipses will generate additional astral power (perhaps 3 for wrath and 4 for starfire.) This design would conserve the idea of a critical strike buff for eclipse while keeping the crit from being ridiculously over tuned. It would also probably promote extending eclipses when possible to maximize uptime with the crit buff and extra AP procs (which would also make it easier to extend eclipse.)
  • Timeworn Dreamcatcher (aka emerald dreamcatcher) is a definite miss as it stands right now as a legendary and I was one of the druids that kind of wanted to see it return. We’re not going to get an EN version of it as that was too over tuned, but the current values for the Timeworn Dreamcatcher seem to be way to low to be good right now . It saves 3 AP for starsurge and 5 AP for starfall per stack and stacks to two on a 5 second duration. When people think of this legendary from Legion, they think of the surgeweaving playstyle which was fairly rewarding if you could get enough haste to reach certain breakpoints and maintain buff uptime as much as possible for the most efficient AP use and thus more starsurges. The Nighthold version of the dreamcatcher was nerfed enough to keep it in line, but still provided enough AP reduction at 7 per stack that you could still surgeweave. I suggest that if you want to move forward with this legendary, each stack should reduce the AP cost of starsurge by 5 and starfall by either 7 or 8. This would provide enough reduction to be able to surgeweave a bit without being over the top since it very improbable to maintain 20 AP gain between starsurge casts without CDs or good procs, especially early in the expansion. Otherwise, I would scrap it and put a new legendary in its place. (Edit: I also noticed that starsurges and starfalls gained from casting Convoke the Spirits are not adding to or refreshing the five second buff which I think should be changed.)

There are 2 Balance legendary effects I would suggest putting in their place if it’s decided to scrap them, or to add later if/when more Shadowlands legendary effects are added.

  • A legendary effect that I, and apparently several others on the feedback thread, would very much like to see is the Orbit Breaker torghast anima power which calls down a full moon every 20th moonfire tick. This seems like a really cool legendary which would excel in multi-dot fights. It may be too powerful at every 20th tick on multiple targets, but it can always be tuned down to every 30th tick or something.
  • The second one is basically two of the gold traits from the artifact weapon because I was a huge fan of the Power of Goldrinn proc since I thought it looked cool. Call it “Memory of the Scythe” or something. Starsurge has a chance to proc a spirit of Goldrinn to strike the target, and starfall has a chance to cause echoing stars to become active for the next 8 seconds.

Generic Druid Legendary Effects:

  • Lycara’s Fleeting Glimpse is pretty lackluster as a legendary since one free starfall every 45 seconds isn’t that great, especially if it overlaps your current starfall and it can’t pandemic. I think Tettles also said in one of his videos that it’s currently more free starfalls on average than Oneth’s Clear Vision right now which is sad to think about. Primal Wrath might be okay on multi-target if timed but I doubt it will be worth it based on how much rake and thrash do for us when procced from Convoke the Spirits.
  • Druid Runecarve 1 (the HotW legendary) could be decent if you need the HotW effect once a minute. I doubt it will see much use from balance in pve but it could be very good for balance in pvp with guardian affinity for the extra dmg reduction and extra charges of frenzied regeneration.
  • Druid Runecarve 3 or the Circlet of Weeds effect (25% faster dots) could end up being very powerful for balance druids, especially for multi-dotting, if moonfire and sunfire are tuned up to a respectable amount of damage but they’re not good enough right now to be using this.
  • Druid Runecarve 4 (Dots/rejuv on a single target amp) is pretty awful for balance and I don’t see that changing. It might be good for Feral. Guardian and Resto could use it for feral affinity damage, but would probably be better off with the HotW legendary instead for the same purpose.

Finally, I’d like to go over the druid soul conduits as it pertains to the balance spec (keep in mind that this is datamined only so far as I know)

Potency Conduits:

  • Druid Potency Balance 1 seems kind of lackluster with a chance to proc extra duration to eclipse or dot extension. It doesn’t look like it will be better than any of the following three especially with the current playstyle of cycling eclipses quickly.
  • Druid Potency Balance 2, which is basically a version of the artifact gold trait “Circadian Invocation,” causes moonfire and sunfire to increase damage from their respective spell schools by 3%. I see this being a pretty strong effect since it will double dip with all of your astral damage which should make for a nice 6% increase to starsurge and starfall damage. It will be nice stacked on top the amplification from mastery as well and it will increase based on the rank of your soulbind.
  • Druid Potency Balance 3 increases the duration of CA (and by assumption Incarnation) by four seconds increasing in time by rank supposedly. This should end up being very strong as you get higher ranks as you may end up getting to over 10 extra seconds of CA/Incarnation based on the rank and how the time increases per rank. What might make this ridiculous is if it interacts with the CA/Incarnation procs from the Arcanic Pulsar legendary . I highly doubt it is intended to act that way, but it could be a little crazy if it does until Blizzard stops the interaction.
  • Druid Potency Balance 4 is a base increase to wrath and starfire damage during the respective eclipses starting off at 20% according to the datamining. This effect will probably end up being very strong, especially if it actually starts at 20% and goes up from there.
  • Druid Potency Kyrian simply provides CD reduction (starting at 10%) for your Kyrian class ability. It could end up simming well if the Kyrian ability continues to sim well.
  • Druid Potency Venthyr causes Ravenous Frenzy to increase your crit chance per stack (starting at 2%) as well which could be very good, especially as Ravenous Frenzy scales in power as our characters get more gear farther into the expansion.
  • Druid Potency Necrolord is a further dot amplification to adaptive swarm (starting at 6%.) Considering how bad balance dots are at the moment, it’s probably pretty bad. Even if our dots are tuned up, adaptive swarm doesn’t scale well past one target.
  • Druid Potency Night Fae causes the druid to deal percentage increased damage (starting at 12%) during the Convoke the Spirits cast. This could end up being very good for burst as convoke the spirits is a very strong burst CD in the beta.

Endurance Conduits:

  • Druid Endurance 1 (Barkskin cooldown reduction starting at 10%) looks like it should be a generally useful defensive power. You can be even more liberal with barkskin useage.
  • Druid Endurance 2 causes the druid to gain increased health and armor for 4 seconds after shifting into bear form. It doesn’t seem to be very good since you generally won’t be getting auto attacked by enemies in pve but it might be decent against double melee in an arena match depending on the numbers.
  • Druid Endurance 3 is an increase to self-healing from regrowth and Frenzied regeneration. It should be decent but nothing too amazing. The barkskin one is likely better.

Finesse Conduits:

  • Druid Finesse 2 is basically the Reawakening azerite trait from BFA except with a speed buff instead of a shield.
  • Druid Finesse 3 is increased radius and duration for stampeding roar starting at 15% This looks like the best utility soul conduit imo as it buffs your raid utility by a decent amount.
  • Druid Finesse 4 is cooldown reduction for the level 35 row of talents starting at 10%.

Wishlist conduit: Please make a Light of the Sun finesse conduit for balance where Solarbeam CD is reduced by some amount of time if you successfully interrupt a target.

Sorry for writing a book instead of a post, but I was bored last night and figured I’d write out my comments and concerns on balance druid in the Shadowlands beta.

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