FEEDBACK: Druid Class Changes

Balance

Primary Concern: Eclipse feels weak.

Talents:

Lv 15 Row

Nature’s Balance: Still still feels like a very comfortable talent. Feels really good with the reduced time to gain Astral Power and the reduced cost for Starsurge.

Warrior of Elune: I still think this is a bad talent. It was nice situationally through BFA for burst, but overall(so far) Starfire and Wrath feel very weak rotationally even with Eclipse active.

Force of Nature: I loved when this was just part of Balance, I would personally prefer this to go back to baseline Balance without the Astral Power generation. It’s a very nice utility for M+ and sometimes even raids, especially on a spec that could use a little more utility with their long cooldowns.

Lv 40 Row

Soul of the Forest: This talent adds something to Eclipse that I strongly believe is mandatory, 3 seconds on Eclipse. The 5% cast reduction on Wrath/Starfire isn’t that big of a deal with how little damage they’re currently doing, but 3 seconds on something that only has a 9 second base duration with a 30 second cooldown is pretty strong imho. Overall this feels weak with an effect that should be baseline for a fluid feeling spec.

Starlord: Nothing has changed from BFA, it’ll still be fairly weak early in the expansion and get better the longer the expansion goes on with more gear(and probably legendaries/soulbind trees).

Incarnation: Chosen of Elune: I think this got a pretty nice buff with making Alignment give crit chance. This giving Haste and Crit for 30 seconds instead of Alignment which only lasts 9 seconds now(12 with Soul of the Forest). I think this might even end up better than Starlord late in this expansion.

lv 45 Row

Stellar Drift: I really wanted to say that I’m really excited about the return to old Starfall. This talent really adds flavor and I think it’ll be really fun if it’s balanced well.

Twin Moons: Basically the same from Legion and BFA. I see this potentially getting less play with how strong Starfall is at the moment, thus making Stellar Drift the optimal multi-target. I think it might have some potential for 2 target only, but it’s very uncommon for encounters to regularly only have 2 targets.

Stellar Flare: I think the scaling might be off, but it’s damage output feels low. I think it’ll be taken for Single Target based on the options in the row, but it might even lose out in single target to Twin Moons.

Lv 50 Row

Shooting Stars: Still feels like a very strong passive despite the Astral generation being cut. I think it’ll be optimal in 2-4 target situations.

Fury of Elune: I think this is going to contest on a situational basis with Shooting Stars for 2-4 target. I think it’ll be best talent in the row for single target.

New Moon(Moons): This talent still feels like it’s in the wrong row. Balance can already feel fairly clunky if you aren’t able to proc Eclipse properly. This adds to the clunky feeling of Balance and I don’t see it having a stable place on the rotation without it potentially adding to Eclipse somehow.

New Alpha build, new round of feedback:

Nature’s Balance:

  • QoL benefit is really hard to give up. (Starting at 50 AP.)
  • It pains me to say so, but making the 50 AP a baseline function of Balance Druid might be the only way to pull me off this talent. The rotational gameplay feels too slow without it. Once it gets going, it’s fine, but that ramp-up feels brutal, especially in open-world content.
  • I don’t think nerfing it from 50 AP down to 40 or 30 AP would be good specifically due to Starfall’s cost.

Warrior of Elune:

  • Please update the Astral Power bonus to 50% (up from 40%) to remove partial values.
  • Actually, you might want to consider buffing it to +7 (8 -> 15). It would be better as an internal test, however. The point would be to make WOE feel like a powerful burst option where you make Lunar Eclipse feel exceptional.

Force of Nature:

  • Utility is still very strong.
  • No changes needed, the Astral Power generation is subject to tuning.
  • If buffs were okay, 30 AP on cast would be ideal. It would fit open-world gameplay with Starsurge’s new cost.

T25 Talents:

  • No changes.

T30 Talents:

  • No changes.

T35 Talents:

  • I still feel HOTW should be made baseline. I think Balance Druid in particular had a lot of CC, and throwing Typhoon in replace of HOTW would fit the row better. In addition, Balance Affinity provide Solar Beam or Innervate.)

T40 Talents:

  • Soul of the Forest is all about tuning, I’m not worried about the mechanics at this time. They are fine.
  • Starlord: I still feel having Starlord until the next Eclipse starts would be preferred. We are playing around pooling resources for Eclipse, so making Starlord reset on Eclipse feels like the right direction. The 20sec timer would line up with a typical Eclipse rotation anyways. It just would feel better to play around.
  • Incarnation: Starsurge does not extend Eclipse. This appears to be intended.

T45 Talents:

  • Stellar Drift probably doesn’t need the damage boost (redundant with duration increase). The duration boost is perfectly fine and interacts great with the casting-while-moving mechanic.
  • Twin Moons still feels good.
  • Stellar Flare simply doesn’t feel good to play. Currently, it’s about equal to Starfire in eDPS. It’s gimmick is tied to a clunky double-dip on Eclipse bonuses Celestial Alignment.

T50 Talents:

  • Shooting Stars feels good. I’d love to move away from the DR if possible.
  • Fury of Elune feels good. The Astral Power generation allows us to feel strong in AOE.
  • New Moon is still kinda dull to me. I’d rather just have Full Moon and skip the boring spells.

Big Eclipse change:

  • 3 casts to enter Eclipse. It’s a countdown (3, 2, 1) referencing spellcasts remaining to trigger Eclipse.
  • You must cycle Eclipse states, you cannot go Solar>Solar unless you use CA to reset the cycle (Solar>CA>Solar).
  • It appears to reset after ~24sec while not in Eclipse and out of combat.
  • It does not reset while in combat.
  • You can postpone Eclipse. (Test: 10min+ while sitting at 1 remaining cast for Wrath, and my next Wrath trigger Lunar Eclipse.)

Biggest playstyle change:

  • You can cast Wrath twice, for example, and sit on 1 remaining cast. You can hold that final Wrath until you die, logout, etc. This allows you to game Eclipse exactly like Solar-cleaving (Cata/MOP) used to do. While not in combat, you still could re-trigger Solar Eclipse, however. But while in combat, you absolutely can delay Eclipse for chain-pulling and burn phases.

For what it’s worth to many players whom have voiced complaints about Eclipse…

  • There is no RNG. It feels very close to MOP’s Lunar Eclipse cycle in downtime (this means it feels like a good pace. It’s not slow by any stretch of the imagination).
  • You can choose which Eclipse you start with and there is no fishing for procs.
  • Your AOE output is not dependent on Eclipse.
  • Eclipse is basically a 10sec+ empowerment for your fillers.
  • Downtime on Eclipse is very low… possibly as low as 10-20% (5sec downtime over 30sec, which is napkin math).
  • The idea of “being in the right Eclipse” is meaningless right now. The fact is we are leaning Solar specifically because Wrath provides more effective DPS when coupled with Astral Power generation. We are tailoring our playstyle to dump Starsurge into Solar Eclipse, thus it makes Lunar Eclipse seem weak. However, if we were to dump Starsurge into Lunar Eclipse, then Solar would appear weak as well. The point is that Dev Blog doesn’t reflect the current iteration.

Honestly, I don’t feel we actually need many more changes. I have some issues with talents, but the core gameplay has a ton of depth simply due to the Eclipse change. I don’t think you’ll want to postpone Eclipse for too long, but you can absolutely min/max the hell out of burn phases, or movement phases. For how simple the gameplay is, the skill ceiling appears to be very high.

Most of the top-tier gameplay will revolve around lining up Eclipse procs with encounter mechanics. For the average player, it’s a very simple and intuitive playstyle. It reminds me a lot of MOP (depth), let is as simple as Legion and BFA pre-legendary items.

20 Likes

New Balance druid changed hype!

Here are my quick, leveling, thoughts on the changes for Eclipse (which for those who are yet unaware we no longer have that 25% proc chance but now have “charges” on both Wrath and Lunar that when they hit 0 procs the opposite Eclipse and you then just alternate from there).

It is now more feeling like how we were in MoP days, and I don’t mind that at all, and just this simple change has made playing much better because we can now plan on when we get our Eclipse out because once we get into the rotation you don’t lose your “stacks” or lose your progress you if you need to move or know you are moving soon you can just hold on to it. Yes we still have to be casting Wrath during AoE packs, or Lunar during single target, but tbh that is no different than what we were doing in the past.

My stance prior on how to spend our Astral power also now is better because we are almost always in an eclipse because once one ends you just need to cast another 3 spells and you are in the next one. You can also get quite the lead on it, where I have managed to get to about 17-18 secs from the start of the eclipse and throwing out 3 Surges.

I have yet to play with any other talents yet, since I haven’t gotten to find any or reached training dummies on my revendreth character yet, but I am rocking that NB, Soul, Twin, and SS.
My thoughts on what I will wanna try now is with this change will Warrior of Elune actually be good now, being that we could basically get a free Solar eclipse out of it once our lunar eclipse ends.

We are starting to get in a better direction, in my opinion, so let’s keep on trucking through!

3 Likes

But it’s not more intuitive than our current play style in BFA. The changes aren’t the end of the world, but I don’t understand why we’re changing something that works very well now, when I feel we simply needed some tweaks.

The one change I really wanted to see was a buff to starfall, which they’ve done.

4 Likes

BFA Empowerments were extremely limiting to the spec. When all of your casts are empowered, there’s no point to empowerments. In addition, when you have a system like BFA empowerments, there’s a design issue were wasting empowerments should be a bad thing. But if wasting empowerments isn’t a DPS loss, then…well… what’s the point of empowerments? So you’ll have developers design the spec to make Empowerments matter (which they did). Even if the DPS differences are tiny, Empowerments still matter right now. But that also means you cannot add anything to the spec that will increase the rate of which you gain Empowerments.

BFA Empowerments held the spec back. Eclipse is basically filler empowerment, without the limiting factor of BFA Empowerments.

11 Likes

Eclipse: catching up (slightly belatedly) on updates this week.

Summarizing some of the biggest points coming out of early feedback:
–General negative feeling on the RNG startup of Eclipse. A few people did notice that there was pretty strong bad-luck protection on the proc, but ultimately that didn’t seem to help in this case.
–The idea of the 30s ICD wasn’t worth all the confusion. It was intended to simply alternate Eclipses in long combats, so it’s clearer to straightforwardly do that.

An important detail of the change (the number of casts to start an Eclipse is now fixed at 3) is that the count is visible in the default UI–highlighting this since it won’t be obvious to people who have only seen datamining. This lets you know, among other things, when you’ve been out of combat long enough to “reset” and be able to start with either Eclipse again, so you don’t have to guess about that. It also makes the mechanics clearer, for example that you can enter either Eclipse immedately after Celestial Alignment ends.

Another problem solved by no longer being random is that you’re not stuck in the middle of a “wrong” cast when Eclipse starts (Eclipse feels a bit longer when you play it in this version, for this reason). You can plan a buffed nuke or Starsurge crisply at the start of Eclipse, as well as allowing more advanced planning around DoT refreshes and movement.

Finally, it’s expected that there are better and worse Eclipse timings in a long encounter based on whether Wrath or Starfire is more valuable at given moments, and there’s some ability to manipulate it as you learn what’s coming. There hasn’t been a lot of opportunity for people to explore this yet, but Starsurge timing, DoT timing, Celestial Alignment, and choice of starting Eclipse are all ways to influence the cycle.

22 Likes

Could you please at least address some of the Guardian feedback at some point? :slight_smile:

46 Likes

Feral main since I started WoW in Cataclysm. My feedback here concerns solo content and Mythic raiding; I was world-parsing before Legion ended. I don’t consider myself a PVPer so my feedback doesn’t take that into account.

Requiring a heal in a DPS rotation always was weird, and I love that it’s being looked at!

Feral has always been the red-headed stepchild, it’s a bit of a meme atm on retail (when hasn’t it been?) so I just really wish that would be different for a change!

(I deleted my feedback about the previous iteration of Bloodtalons because I just saw it was changed to use Thrash instead of Bite. Thank you!!!)
My only thoughts on Bloodtalons now are concerning the requirement of Thrash in single-target. Keeping up Thrash was a DPS gain in Legion because it was stronger than a Shred, and it’s a DPS gain now in BFA because of Wild Fleshrending. I suppose it will be a similar interaction to our rotation as WFR.

The 3-second window for Bloodtalons seems alright.

I appreciate that finishers grant a free Regrowth. Even though it’s not necessary in our rotation, it’s proven very useful in questing, since we are so squishy and have no self-heals in our rotation.
Speaking of which, our HP only goes down now. I hope damage makes up for that. Or maybe allow finishers to have a chance to cast an instant Regrowth, that chance being equal to BfA Predatory Swiftness chance, based on CP used. This won’t be such a problem in raid, but in solo content (Torghast), without a healer, self-healing in our rotation makes a difference.

Berserk as a DPS CD still just kinda… sucks? No Feral would mind extraordinary changes to it.

Lastly, Feral’s valuable CC has been given to other specs, but Feral did not get much in return, and we even lost Survival Instincts. I have seen better feedback on this, but I wanted to mark myself down as concerned about it, as well.

I will offer more feedback later for sure, but these are my sleepy thoughts right now.

42 Likes

Balance

The changes to eclipse definitely feel better than the previous build, however my overall issue remains the same.

Eclipse

The Eclipse rotation is dull, a bit counter intuitive, restricting, and less interactive than BFA Empowerments.

Dullness - No matter how I look at it, the rotation comes down to spamming one ability until its time to spam the other, which gets boring. The reward for properly spamming your individual abilities in their respective times, is getting to spam one for a longer period of time. The only variation in the rotation is if you should use Starsurge during Solar Eclipse to extend its duration and Starfall during Lunar Eclipse to avoid over caping Astral Power while also not extending Lunar Eclipse for Single target, or the reverse for AoE situations which you can only hope line up with with where you are in the rotation.

Counter Intuitiveness - AoE buffs Single Target, Single Target buffs AoE

Restricting - While you can now choose which eclipse to open with, you’re still stuck on the rails of eclipse forcing you from a single target buff to an aoe buff. Yes, you can manipulate it to an extent with Starsurge but it still leads to periods of being in the wrong eclipse for what your situation calls for.

Less Interactive - Consuming Starsurge generated and RNG stacks of Empowerment by constantly changing which spell you’re using in order to avoid capping and losing potential Empowerments, plus Streaking Stars rewarding you further for not casting repeat abilities is way more engaging than slight variations of spam Wrath until its time to spam Starfire.

Additional Thoughts

BFA Boomkin is probably my favorite version of Boomkin, certainly my favorite BFA spec. Even with Azerite gear, Heart Of Azeroth, and Corrupted gear unequipped I feel the Empowerment system is more fun and engaging than the current Eclipse rotation.

Changing the Eclipse effect back to Empowerment effects, Lunar increases the damage of Starfire and reduces its cast time / Solar explodes and reduces its cast time, adding a shorter duration eclipse guaranteed or proced to Starsurge, and baking Streaking Stars into Eclipse so that while both eclipses are active your spells deal additional damage when they are not a repeat, would remove the AoE vs Single Target awkwardness while keeping the alternating eclipse play style and giving a more engaging and rewarding rotation.

14 Likes

BALANCE

Eclipse: I have been thinking over some of the quirks of this system as it stands. I feel like the eclipse mechanic works in theory, but it has some pain points. The division between single target and AoE is never going to feel good, when you need one and are locked out.

Perhaps readding the splash damage from Wrath we get currently from solar empowerment into solar eclipses might be a good spot to start.

Another idea that occurs to me is perhaps making it so that you gain some manner of passive damage element which pulses out nature damage within melee range of the druid each time you cast a wrath. It would in a sense be a choice between ‘melee’ AoE and ‘ranged’ AoE, and a play on the ‘tanky’ nature of the moonkin form.

Innervate: It would be a good synergy if this spell could be cast on the Druid during Heart of the Wild with the Restoration Aspect, but be limited to healing spells only. If you are using HoTW in Restoration Aspect you have to leave moonkin form and its perks to use the spells, so during that time it feels like the game should treat you as if you are in fact a healer.

GUARDIAN

Lunar Beam: This ability sort of sucks as it currently is. It would feel MUCH better if you just made it follow the druid instead of being static. That simple change would make it so that you are assured to get the healing it provides, even if you are forced to move out of range.

Skull Bash: Guardians DESPERATELY need a gap closing ability that does not require them to talent into it. A suggestion I would like to make is for Skull Bash to have an increased 10 yard range, but for its silence effect to only activate if you use it within its current range. This would have the trade off of putting your silence ability on cooldown, meaning Wild Charge would still hold value without feeling quite so mandatory.

GENERAL

Heart of the Wild: I love this concept, but I feel like it has so much potential to become an iconic spell in Shadowlands. It feels like it should be a baseline spell. That slot perhaps could be replaced with good ol’ Faerie Fire. An anti stealth/invisibility and armor decreasing ability (on a cooldown) would make a rather interesting choice when pitted against a stun and AoE root.

Baselined or not in using HotW, one thing which has become an annoyance to me is the fact you have to waste a GCD to swap forms before using it. To that end perhaps it could automatically move you to the form matching your Affinity as part of the ability itself. This would match the enhanced shape shifting jack-of-all-trades vibe this talent seems like it is intended to invoke.

24 Likes

After having had the pleasure of tanking a dungeon, I would reiterate previous concerns about not having a snare, as well as the previously concerns around certain talents being more or less mandatory (Renewal) and our lack of certain niche abilities that all other tanks have. :slight_smile:

I would also mention that threat didn’t feel great. I have a feeling this is because we no longer have whatever was baked in before with the Azerite stuff, so please make sure that gets resolved.

Also, and I realize that numbers tuning probably hasn’t happened yet, but Guardian damage feels even more anemic than usual right now.

35 Likes

This is just my idea on a possible change to how Feral functions. I am not a game designer so feel free to dislike it or point out issues.

I think it would be cool to change rip to act more like old (BFA) Lock UA where you can have an unlimited amount of them on a target and then have bite either scale with the number of bleeds on a target or have it act like death bolt where it does a percentage of the remaining bleed damage.

I think this change would keep with the feral fantasy of bleeding a target to death while moving feral into something more interactive then the current build (and very different from feeling like a discount rogue). The rotation currently is start encounter getting the best rip possible then using saber tooth to never have to reapply it again and just biting on repeat. With this build saber tooth could stay the same refreshing your lowest time remaining bleed on a target. It would make the gameplay style more engaging as you try to stack up as many rips on a boss as possible and snapshotting windows to get big bleeds going and trying to get as many out as possible.

Affliction had the problem of being bad at AOE but with the addition of our aoe rip this problem is solved and being able to stack bleeds with it would be extremely satisfying.

Overall I just want to hear from a Blue on whether Blizzard is doing anything more for Feral. Even a simple “yes we are working on it or no we are satisfied here is why…” would reinforce the idea that Blizzard is listening to feedback and communicating which they have said countless times during BFA they were working on improving. Ion’s interview where feral was brought up and him saying “They got a change to BT” when the interviewer made a joke about feral did not give me confidence that Blizzard intends to do much to fix the Feral is a Meme meta it has been stuck in all of BFA.

25 Likes

So. Some quick background on me. I’ve been playing feral for as long as I can remember and is almost always at the cutting edge. So far the changes to feral overall just feel very bad and a few other things feel clunky. Bloodtalons is going to get its own section.

  1. You’ve given us back Barkskin, taken a charge away from Survival Instincts, and put it on a 4minute cooldown. While it feels nice having barkskin back, its just nowhere near as good as the current Survival Instincts in live. The 4min CD feels more obtrusive than the loss of a charge honestly.
    Part of the fun of Feral was always this feeling of a pseudo-self sufficiency in group content. The passive regrowths and ability to just manage yourself skillfully to survive where other classes might not (or just be more aggressive) played into that. This feels greatly diminished and I don’t feel like we got much back out of it.

  2. Lets talk utility. “Why Bring a Feral”. Its a question that the spec just struggles with to no end. To begin, one of the unique utility pieces that Feral/Guardian have always provided was Stampede. When we lost innervate in Legion, a split was put into place where Resto/Balance got innervate and Guardian/Feral got Stampede. With the entire class getting Roar now, Feral is losing YET ANOTHER differentiating factor. The question of “Why bring a Feral” just becomes harder to answer.
    Everything Feral does utility wise can now be provided elsewhere and with some better core functionality provided. Ion once said that Feral should be the “Kings of Single Target”. This promise wasn’t really kept, and even when it was, balance is tight enough that utility is more important.
    DKs and Resto druids are ubiquitous enough that a raid will usually have bres covered via one of them (don’t forget the engineering tool now).
    Stampede is now provided by Resto and Boomie, and Shamans can easily spec into it. Spirit Link is important enough of a CD that most raids will bring at least one.
    Other melee/tank hybrid classes at the very least provide raid buffs. DH/Monk give 5% damage. Warrior gives Battle Shout. DKs have a valuable Grip along with their Combat Res. Pallies have their Auras back now and blessings. I’ve argued for Leader of the Pack in the past, and maintain that it should there for parity with utility. Resto/Boomie could probably give a modified Moonkin Aura. This would be preferable to MotW honestly but I wouldn’t turn that down too.

  3. Time to talk about the problem child that is now Bloodtalons.

  • The survivability provided by it is noticeably missed. That was part of what felt cool about playing a hybrid class. We had a way to sustain ourselves with minimal loss of damage. Maybe tossing on some leech with this would help address the issue.

  • Downtime is FAR more punishing and feels unfun rather than an opportunity to prepare to go back in. I used to be able to Regrowth during key moments of downtime to facilitate reopening or just pump a little bit extra. This piece of planning/puzzle feels missing.
    To add onto the issue, your target jumping away while you are trying to activate your BT is incredibly punishing and forces you to waste a lot of resources. You want to be at exactly 80 energy and 0CP to activate BT. If you use 2 globals and lose target. Suddenly you’re sitting around regenning energy and know you’re going to overcap on Combo Points. This feels even worse if you just used Tiger’s Fury to fill your energy bar.

  • There’s this feeling of ‘weaving’ your Bloodtalons into your rotation that exists in live that just feels missing as well. Its hard to pin down, but the ‘flow’ just feels wrong.

  • It makes the opener awkward, and punishes you in multi-target situations. We go back to the interaction with Sabertooth which removes all thought from the rotation. This makes that issue worse.
    Regarding multi-target. You often DON’T want to shred in these situations. If you’re going to INSIST on keeping the current activation requirements, please include swipe in there. Also. Bloodtalons does not interact with the instant damage of Primal Wraith. This just feels bad. The talent as a whole just feels bad.

  • My suggestion is to try something like this. Turn it into an actual ability that uses energy and gives a combo point.

Bloodtalons: 40 Energy. Awards 1 Combo Point. 30second Cooldown. Deal 2xShred damage to the target and increase the damage and leech of your next two finishing moves by 30%. Using a finishing move reduces the cooldown of this ability by 10 seconds.

  1. Lets talk affinities, Heart of the Wild, and our level 35 row. Heart of the Wild just feels very out of place in that row. It also feels like something Druids have had historically that was removed from them. I understand the desire to separate out the CCs across the three affinities. Giving them all baseline is just too much control packed into one class, especially with our level 35 row. The issue is the Typhoon/Vortex combo. You’ve broken out an incredibly fun combination of abilities and locked them behind talents that might not fit the playstyle of what someone is trying to do.
    Consider maybe either having Heart of the Wild also grant the remaining 2 CCs from the affinity row, or just have Heart of the Wild be baseline to bring back that ‘Hybrid’ feeling that Druid has been losing over the years.
    Oh, and there are also 2 talents named Heart of the Wild. The PvP talent and the PvE one.

  2. Feels great to have Cyclone back, but it feels out of place that PS doesn’t make it instant. This was more understandable when it was a PvP only talent, but now that its back in our hands in PvE, I would like that back. Also, if Bloodtalons is being uncoupled from PS, there’s no reason not to have it allow instant cast Rebirth.

In summary.

  • Defensively Feral just feels worse and incredibly squishy. The Survival Instincts change is key here along with the loss of passive healing from Bloodtalons.
  • We need to answer the question: “Why bring a Feral”. Stampede is going to Boomkin/Resto but Guardian/Feral is not getting Innervate. Other melee classes bring core raid buffs. LotP and a Caster Aura for Resto/Boomie would address this. MotW back would just be the cherry on top but likely overkill. Boomie/Feral need differentiation.
  • Bloodtalons just sucks in its current iteration. It just feels bad and way worse than before, punishes downtime rather than rewards skillful play, and is anti-synergistic in AoE. Window is too small. Swipe is missing from activation. Does not interact with instant damage of Primal Wraith. Sabertooth is still boring and too good.
  • Affinity CC and HotW feel like they break the Hybrid feel. HotW feels out of place in a CC row. Either tether the other two Affinity CCs to HotW, or make HotW baseline and add the option to pick up the other two from there.
  • Predatory Swiftness feels like its less fun and interactive right now with very edge case uses. In practicality it just allows you to burn a global to heal occasionally. There need to be more opportunities to interact with it. Cyclone and Rebirth are good places for this.

Right now Shadowlands it feels like Feral lost, either directly or by giving it to other aspects of Druid without reciprocity.

Oh. A secondary aside. Incap roar forces me out of Cat Form where the others don’t. It would be nice if it behaved like Stampede where it left me in cat when used.

72 Likes

I feel like Starsurge should be a level 10 ability.

Just played through the new intro area and spec’d Balance at level 10. So now I’m running around building Astral Power with Wrath, Moonfire and Starfire, but I’ve got nothing to spend it on. Just a bar that fills up in combat. Would be kinda confusing for a new player.

24 Likes

Thought for the week: Started Mythic N’zoth this week. Kiting Psychophages as the only tank in the game without a slow is pretty rough. And it’s still not fixed in Shadowlands.

(Also, entering the Psychus realm still shifts you out of bear form, dumping our rage bar and requiring a GCD to get back into shape. Would be nice if these kinds of irritations could be permanently avoided, and there are suggestions for doing so, like taking bear form off the GCD or having rage persist through forms like energy does. But because these are persistent problems, every bug like this - which often go uncorrected for months - cause continuous problems. Instead of stamping these things out 1 by 1, wouldn’t it be easier to just eliminate the gameplay flaws that cause them to be problems in the first place when the bugs do happen?)

26 Likes

You may already know this, but you can shapeshift back in on your way down. When you land, you’re stunned again, but still in your chosen form.

I believe both of these are already the case on alpha.

5 Likes

Confirmed:

That’s pretty neat.

But HOTW is still on the GCD, I really don’t feel it should be.

4 Likes

Huh! The build prior (or the build prior to the build prior? I am not sure!) it would not let me use Innervate on myself, nor did my form shift. So, this is exciting to hear! It really makes me happy to see you all responding to feedback.

I would agree with Cyouskin that HoTW should be off the GCD for sure. Being able to macro it together with Innervate for example and just go to town emergency healing be GREAT.

3 Likes

Just tested:

Baselined or not in using HotW, one thing which has become an annoyance to me is the fact you have to waste a GCD to swap forms before using it. To that end perhaps it could automatically move you to the form matching your Affinity as part of the ability itself. This would match the enhanced shape shifting jack-of-all-trades vibe this talent seems like it is intended to invoke.

This is correct. It will even ignore the shapeshift lockout. So if I am in resto spec, go cat, drop form, and during the powershift lockout activate HotW, it will change you to cat form again.

@Sigma. While this is overall correct, the annoyance here is specifically related to Resto affinity. Most druids from a gameplay perspective take advantage of the bar-swapping that comes from shapeshifting. So in most cases (Guardian, Feral, Balance) you will swap to the correct form, and therefore the correct bar.

With resto however, you maintain your form. You don’t TECHNICALLY burn a global honestly. I’m currently addressing this with a fairly complex set of macros that are specific to the spec. I actually have to do the same thing to get the kind of comfortable functionality from the Affinity CCs.

Affinity

#showtooltip
/cast [talent:3/1] Typhoon
/cast [talent:3/2] Incapacitating Roar
/cast [talent:3/3] Ursol's Vortex

HotW

#showtooltip
/cancelform [talent:3/3, talent:4/3]
/cast [talent:4/1] Mighty Bash
/cast [talent:4/2] Mass Entanglement
/cast [talent:4/3] Heart of the Wild(Talent)

It would nice if you insist on tethering the CCs to the Affinity talents, if they would change much like the level 35 Row already does.

Each spec needs its own Macro Set. That’s 8 Macro slots needed… On live neither are bound to a bar that swaps with form, so in its current state, I would need to reshuffle a lot of things on launch.

HotW when in Resto affinity should drop form to caster since that’s what my form should be (Or you could FINALLY give Resto back some baseline version of Tree Form for some flavor, but that’s a separate discussion). Either way. When I press HotW to heal, I want to go into my “Healer Mode”.

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