FEEDBACK: Druid Class Changes

Exactly, resto having to compete with healers like disc and rsham is already a huge crutch and things like this don’t help whatsoever.

I have used it a few times on the beta now since this hotfix and it still decides on using wrath/moonfire (up to 5 damage casts) when there are injured targets nearby.

I can’t be the only one that’s bummed about Berserk not doing anything for feral AOE anymore? Since Berserk went from 50% energy cost reduction to just buffing shred and rake, it’s basically useless in aoe. Since it’s a raw +60% damage on rake and shred, couldn’t it do 60% on swipe and thrash too?

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I am glad its going to 16 again. I love the flurry of spells. Heck I would take a longer cooldown for even more spells. Its a feel good press of hot damn what just happen.
I really hope this pushed it to being at least second best for balance because I want to use this covenant.

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Feral will, once again, be the bottom of the barrel spec. They might see some pvp arena action but thats about it. Sure you might see those “well i top meters in my subpar groups” it rly does no justice for feral.
Just another dead pve spec for the next xpac with very bad talent choices and bad playstyle, especially with aoe.
Blizz didn’t listen, again.

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Reporting bug on Vision of Unending Growth, rejuv spreader legendary for resto druid.

Originally the proc chance for this legendary was 2%, but it got buffed to be 2.5% (tooltip also says 2.5%). However, after meeting with 11 druids in Oribos and spamming rejuv while monitoring procs via a weak aura, we can confirm this change did not get implemented or was reverted accidentally.

Our test totaled 7200 rejuv ticks for a total of 146 procs, or 2.02% proc chance.

Please double check this one and get that 2.5% buff in there, if you can :smiley: (We all also reported in game via the bug report)

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This should be an easy fix (rejuv spreader legendary). Please fix it before SL launch or fix the tooltip if this is the intended number.

Oh trust me you aren’t the only one. Feral’s biggest weakness is M+ because of how crappy Feral burst AoE is. As in it’s non existent. And a big cause of that is how terrible Berserk is in AoE. It’s sometimes mind blowing to me how bad the class dev team is. Literally just giving Thrash/Swipe some kind of Stealth modifier just like Rake/Shred would help remedy some of this to make Berserk “somewhat” less trash in AoE.

Our AoE in general is just a mess though. PW should be baseline and be a unique bleed to allow balancing Rip/PW damage separately while giving us access to an AoE Finisher without having to talent for it.

It’s pretty easy to see that the two go to “meta” Energy/CP based specs going into SL both have AoE finishers baseline (Sub/Outlaw) while the 2 undesirable specs don’t (Feral/Sin).

But yeah it’s pretty sad. Feral’s issues could be fixed so easily. Give Berserk stealth modifiers on Thrash/Swipe. Make some form of PW baseline as well as making it a unqiue bleed to not overwrite Rip and then re-work our AoE row.

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I’ve wondered too how they could fix feral. Do feral mains feel like its just a throughput problem? I personally just find the spec stressful and not fun, on top of the fact that I have t work really really hard to just do the same amount of damage as any other class that has 3 buttons.

Maybe one of the most complex rotations in the game should be rewarded with slightly better output? Or at least be competitive? I dunno. Those are the things keeping me away from Feral anyway.

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They could largely fix Feral by giving Berserk value in AoE and making PW baseline. Then re-work the AoE talent row so that we have access to some forms of burst AoE. They could even design the entire AoE talent row to work in conjunction with baseline Primal Wrath. Like say Brutal Slash does x% more damage to targets affected with Primal Wrath. Then a talent where after using Primal Wrath your next Ferocious Bite will hit up to 5 additional targets for x% reduced dmg (similar to how Blade Flurry works) etc.

I’m not asking for Feral to be some kind of Combusting Fire Mage levels of AoE burst, but as it stands we have zero AoE burst what so ever which is why we are so bad in M+.

This is even more of a problem with the new Prideful affix because Pride’s on beta are essentially used to enable your group to either A) Burn boss or B) Do huge trash pulls. Feral brings basically no value for those big trash pulls where specs that have burst AoE are way more valuable/desirable. Making PW baseline and giving Berserk AoE value would not affect our ST/PvP performance whatsoever, it would just help bring us up to par with other specs in M+.

Even in raid the “sustained AoE” dmg profile is pretty bad. Usually on boss fights where there are adds, you want specs that can blow them up quickly. It’s why Frost DK for example has always been so strong in raids for fights that have AoE because Frost DK’s have probably the highest AoE burst in the game. So again these changes would just help us to have a slightly better dmg profile for M+ and raid fights that largely favor burst AoE. Cuz as it stands it’s not like we are top tier in any kind of niche. It would be one thing if we were like kings of ST dmg or cleave, but we aren’t, so there is no excuse for why we should suffer in AoE as well.

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That looks right on Unending Growth–that should be fixed soon. Fair warning, the result won’t be exactly 2.5% in a test like that, because the proc rate will be prorated on partial ticks, to smooth out the haste breakpoint.

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Awesome, thank you so much for the quick look in to this one + response! The Dreamgrove is very hyped that our testing helped.

Follow-up clarification regarding the prorated proc rate - does this mean that partial ticks offer an equivalently scaled down proc rate chance, compared to a full tick? We weren’t considering the partial giving less than 2.5% chance, good info to know, thank you! This would knock it down a smidge from where we expected, netting us balanced legendary options for raid which is good… we just wish they weren’t such watered down options (we would love for legendaries to have more legendary throughput). I hope you guys somehow miraculously find the time to consider again the blue post re: bumping legendaries up, pull off some magic for us!

Thanks again Sigma, appreciate the reply.

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It isn’t just a throughput problem, the core abilities aren’t working well together and multiple talents make things worse. I made a very long post a few days ago, probably too long for a lot of people to read. :expressionless:

I agree but can’t see it happening, they were reluctant in giving us an AoE finisher as it was. At the time I thought Rip might have been too powerful and thought Rake might have been more likely.
I was wrong on that as we got the Rip version, it turns out it isn’t too strong too.

I find it quite ironic that we have an uncapped AoE ability but in situations where you’ll have more targets than most specs/spells can hit, normally lots of low health targets, it’s self neutralising because they don’t last long enough for the DoT to tick!

I think it was you who suggested having it be a different DoT from Rip, while that initially sounds nice the end result would be bad.
To balance it like that our other DoT would have to be weakened and you’d also be adding another DoT to track and maintain, not impossible but it would start getting quite tedious.

Sigma if you’re still paying any attention to feral, and honestly it doesn’t feel anyone on the dev team is, there has been a lot of negative feedback but you guys seem to be running with your old trusty, “we know what’s best for you,” approach which never seems to work.
We’re on track for another expansion launch with feral being in a horrible place, we’re also late enough in the beta cycle that an untested band-aid is likely to be implemented.
Before you do that just think about what’s happened when you’ve done that in the past, in the last week(ish) of Legion beta Feral got an extra 50% haste per rating point, that was added because it was incredibly weak for us. When BfA came around the new developers were unaware of that and, despite multiple specific bug reports about it, BfA went live without it being removed causing haste to be the best stat for us bar none, due to BfA allowing bleeds to scale with haste.

I’d rather not have a repeat of the feral being weak at launch but I’ve resigned myself to that being the case, again. I’ve almost resigned myself to changing from my original character. I don’t know what I’ll do yet, I haven’t bought the expansion yet as I was hoping things would improve and I’d want to buy it.

I’d like to see the Bloodtalons change get reverted, ideally you’ll make the instant cast Regrowth from Predatory Swiftness be off the GCD. That way the talent works during Berserk.

Speaking of Berserk it needs to do something for AoE, tab-Rake is not enough and really annoying above about four targets, compounded by the targeting change making it baffling at times.

I’d like to see Omen of Clarity changed to work similarly to how Opportunity does for Outlaw instead of a random proc. Feral has to pool energy and wait for the correct timers to line up so we can unleash our next abilities, even more so playing with Bloodtalons
Too many times I’ll be waiting for that window and OoC procs, then it refreshes itself. It’s infuriating!
It shifts the button pressing towards a whack a mole situation which is not how the rest of the spec plays.

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I have found a minor bug/interaction with Feral Convoke and Sabertooth. While the Bites cast during Convoke are 5CP in damage, their Rip extend only extends based on the number of CP’s your Druid currently has. So if I open with Rip into Convoke, if my Convoke Shreds first (so at 1cp) then Bites, that Bite will extend 1s, and later Bites more. If I Convoke at 5cp every Bite will extend 5s.

Perhaps this is intended, but if not I don’t think this should be fixed anyway – why am I even reporting this then? Well Convoke buffs are nice for Feral but now with an average of nearly 4 Bites, it skews heavily in Sabertooths favour. Up to 70% of a Convokes damage can be through Bites alone, and that’s not factoring in a 5th Bite from the CP’s generated. The Rip extend is even further value, so I think its fine to have 0cp Convoke extend a little bit less (the difference is 20s vs 15~ seconds, so minor anyway). I think it’s cool the way it interacts with different talents, but Saber has quite a profound impact on the strength of the Covenant ability for Feral.

I believe Ion stated somewhere a Covenant ability shouldn’t skew a class too far towards a single talent, and even without Saber Convoke loses a lot of value.

If you look at the Convoke damage profile for Balance druid for example, the damage profile is much better distributed, and there doesn’t seem to be a single talent that so greatly impacts the strength of the Balance Convoke.

Possible ways to balance this:

  1. Incorporate the Rip extend into Convoke even without Saber, like how Lunar Inspiration is built into Convoke without the talent selected (which is good, because helps even out Convoke dmg profile and makes it a bit better past 1 target); notably LI has no interaction with Convoke, while Saber’s is colossal.

  2. Rip extend is just flat nerfed or capped by Saber Bites from Convoke (won’t affect the dmg Saber adds to Convoke though, so might not be enough).

  3. Swap 1 Bite with a Savage Roar (if talented, and, probably would need to be in addition to one of the above), would make for a smooth opener and fix SR ramp up time issues when running the talent, while slightly mitigating the huge value Saber+Convoke Bites with one less Bite.

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Too late to make Feral Berserk suggestions? (Other than asking for a CD reduction)

Swipe/BrS: When Berserk is active, deals x% more dmg and applies (non-stealthed) Rake to one target not already affected by Rake.
Reason: Despite being our big damage CD, has very little AoE value.

BT: Down to 2 abilities when Berserk is active.
Reason: BT feels extremely clunky with new Berserk.

All of the other Feral issues have been extensively discussed in this thread, so i’ll keep it short.

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Yea, unfortunately blizz took the weekend off and finalized things on Friday.
Naw, idk. Its 2 days b4 launch, im sure they wont change anything. They haven’t changed it for the multiple months we have asked for berserk changes.

Yea game launches in 2 days, good luck with those changes lol.

thats beyond rare that enh is ever buffed

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Yeah, lack of cooldown for aoe is definitely a major weakness, i dont think any other class has no access to strong CDs to line up with their aoe.

It’s not like we have insane single target either to make up for it. I would be fine-ish with weak aoe if we had top tier single target… but we’re bottom there too.

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1 min cd on solar beam as balance with no way to shorten it to 30-45 seconds when interrupting ala Legion or BFA feels outright terrible in The Maw where not interrupting key casts, particularly the Observers, can get you killed.

Also, please, if doing nothing else on this bad rework of Balance, extend DoT durations, they’re too short and make playing around Eclipses feel bad.

Fix Starfall to work like Ignite, and it needs a damage buff.

I HATE YOU they made this chagne and now every interrupt locks out astral and nature in PVP! :frowning: