Feedback: Dragonriding

another pointless change. cmon Blizzard, stuff like this shouldn’t be nerfed; should be buffed or left alone.

59 Likes

640 is still fun.

Why not ask for it to go to 2560 ? more fun and funnier number → more fun

1 Like

I’m sorry, but do you play the same game we play?

I’m not sure if you had forgotten, but you are unable to Fly in Raids, so Soar is not usable in raids.

Pet Battles? What does Soar have to do with pet battling? As far as I know, you are phased into a battle where you are not even able to move, let alone fly or soar.

Also, did you forget about Mage Portals? If speed is a “drastic efficiency advantage,” then you should apply that same logic to Mage Portals and remove them.

105 Likes

There’s a toy that exists ingame that literally unlocks every flightpath in every zone in every expansion in history. I know, I have them all. How am I on equal footing to someone that has been playing the game for say three weeks? I’m pretty sure I can traverse the world much faster than they can.

I don’t think it’s a good analogy or reasoning to nerf it in old world content.

83 Likes

Let’s not forget the 4 races that have movement speed racials.

Oh, gotta nip that pesky kultiran swim speed racial too before someone swims too fast to a boss in eternal palace!

Let’s not even get started on the dark iron mole machines or Vulpera second hearth :fearful::scream:

While we’re at it, let’s ditch sprint for rogues, heroic leap for warriors, aspects of the cheetah for hunters, I instant cast and dismount immunity from travel form, etc.

Because while soar is a dracthyr racial, as they can only be evoker, it is inherently an evoker skill as well, as evidenced by 2 of their other racials being modded by the talent trees.

Can’t have players moving faster than one another. Nope.

73 Likes

I’m in agreement with the posts in this thread, Dragonriding felt better in the first alpha build than it does now.

But. To those of you complaining about “how could you do this?” “why isn’t it fixed yet” “this HAS to be changed”…

C’mon guys. This is ALPHA. We have seen tons of evidence that devs are reading the feedback we’re giving AND acting on it. If its still bad in the next alpha build, ok whine a little more, but it has been a couple of days only and no new build has come out. Let them experiment with the iterations, give your feedback, and leave it at that. “This feels bad for A, B & C reasons, please consider reverting / updating it in the next build” There is no need for the incessant negativity.

14 Likes

Dear Blizzard,

You really need some wins with the player base. You know this, yes? This is pretty obvious to anyone who plays the game and has interactions with other players.

People are tired of the constant time gate within a time gate within a time gate within a time gate. People are tired of having things that are fun being nerfed into the ground. People are tired of being told that the way we want to play is wrong.

When people (ie players) get too tired of something, they will go somewhere else. We already have evidence of this in game. The dead realms. The friends list that is slowly drying up, with people not having been on in years.

Blizz, you need to stop focusing on your inner circle, and start listening to the actual player base. Not the brown nosers. Not the streamers who will shimmy one way or another on whims. Your player base are the folks you need to really listen to. Because they will be the ones you lose.

Without players, you have no game to make, no? Maybe it’s time to really take in to account what your players want, and not what you want to tell them that they want.

55 Likes

I play with a trackpad but not a normal mouse usually, and from this perspective, dragonriding is not good. Needing to hold the right mouse button to steer is awkward on track pad, and the tilt up/down buttons are too clunky to successfully deal with the maneuverability required in dragonriding. As there are some people who cannot use a mouse for one reason or another, this also raises accessibility concerns with the system.

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Your ability to post constructive feedback is impressive, if i didn’t know any better i’d assume that your a professional game tester.

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Look - I’m not gonna argue with you here but this kind of back and forth is less constructive than anything else here.

You’ve stated clearly that you think the slower speed is fine and have not engaged in any substantial feedback other than “it’s fine. it’s alpha who cares.”

I’d love to have an engaging conversation with people who think Soar needs to be slow \ a long cooldown but have yet to really see compelling evidence for why it needs to be a bad cooldown.

35 Likes

It’s a good cooldown.

It’s faster than best flying option and the cooldown is actually very reasonable (if we look at others we will notice 30 min mole machine, or 15 min Pterrordax swoop).
If we compare 5 min soar vs them, you can easily notice how it’s actually very good as a button. Trying to compare it as a racial vs things like spint or heroic leap is silly, because it’s a completely different category of abilities.

Then we have some ppl suggesting that we keep it’s speed in old world to push dragonriding, but that option probably won’t be here for a while, as it would require all of the past mounts being able to work in dragonriding system. And based on how those things generally work, this system is going to be tested out over this expansion, if it works out well it’ll probably come back next expansion in a slightly different form but everywhere, for now it’s a test bed.

Because it is. The ability is design to be faster than current flying option, on a cooldown. It still performs in this category. Even if it got nerfed from 930 to 900 there would be screams of murder and killing off fun, yet if it started at 640 everyone would be fully happy with it.

Part of the difference with this alpha is that there’s a lot more and more frequent iterations than usual, so some things will get nerfed. In the past because of people complaining that their toys are getting taken away, we almost always got nerfed things because otherwise it’s viewed as “killing my fun, qq, hecking bad blizzard” which is unreasonable stand for alpha/beta and doesn’t lead to constructive feedback.

6 Likes

No it’s not. It’s the same speed as dragon riding. This nerf makes it slower.

And if you mean outside of the Dragon Isles, I still haven’t seen a single person explain why that matters. Evoker start at 60, so they aren’t getting an upper hand in anything important in the old world. No more so than mages do by being able to teleport.

You’re right. It is different. Because dracthyr racials are also class skills.

Blizzard made it very clear they were one and the same by adding the 2 cc racials to the talent trees.

Should we up the cooldown on movement class skills like sprint to 5 minutes? Should we only let druids have instant cast travel form every 5 minutes?

Which you really don’t seem to understand the purpose of.

You’re annoyed people are giving feedback that they’re making the wrong decisions.

It’s almost like this type of feedback is quite literally what alpha is for.

And yes, if they give some asinine excuse, we’re going to pick it apart with snark.

I 1000% guarantee it would not have. At least I’d dragon riding also started at 930. You’re forgetting we tested dragon riding at the same time.

And yet the only one getting annoyed that people give feedback is you.

You are more than welcome to your opinion it is fine. We do not believe it is. The difference is we aren’t making snide comments towards you over it.

WoW is a GAME first and foremost.

Them changing something that reduces the fun, whether you believe it or not, is constructive feedback.

You making snide attacks at said feedback however, is not constructive.

61 Likes

I was talking about it outside of Dragon Isles.

Did Hover get removed in this patch ?

There’s a difference between giving constructive feedback and “hecking killing the fun” posts with crying.

And it’s not intended to be permanent replacement to your mount ?

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And not a single person in this entire thread said it should be.

And even with a 3 minute cooldown and 930% speed it still wouldn’t.

Even at the base level, dragon riding is still faster. And if you need to travel a big distance, your regular mount will still be faster unless there’s a LOT of downhill.

It feels like you’re just making up scenarios that don’t exist without properly testing it.

45 Likes

And yet the only thing you keep comparing it to, is as an alternative to a mount.

While again, ignoring that everywhere in the old world it will still be faster.

I feel like you expect the ability to be something different from my expectations (and the historical usage of racials)

They are meant to provide flavors to the race and have a situational benefit. Most of the ones that were too strong with unique benefits got nerfed (Will of the Forsaken / Arcane Torrent).

Again, if you compare this to something like Pterrordax Swoop it is far stronger.

I think if we’re trying to discuss general mobility, evoker is very high on the list with baseline :
Hover (35 sec cd)
Deep Breath
And ability to talent into :
Fly with me
Dream Flight (Preservation)
Extra Charges/Duration on Hover

etc

2 Likes

My existing Renewed Proto drake disappeared when I created a new character. When the new character completed the Dragonriding quest the mount reappeared in both characters. Anti-account-wide

I think what could help in this area is to make vertical movement a bit more responsive and less weighty, and adjust the pitch up and pitch down key to have more fidelity. Its hard to judge how the dragon will respond using the keys. Perhaps there can be an adjustible angle limit feature in accessibility options? 45°-90°? That way no matter how clumsy u are with your keys your dragon will never pitch further than that? The goal should be to have both the ability for dragon riding to handle like a sports car for those who can control it, and also have a comfort mode for easy driving.

I toyed around with using pitch up and pitch down to see how dragon riding would look independent of my camera angle and while it works, the keys aren’t as responsive as using my mouse and it’s too hard to keep a good angle to fly well. You kind of have to tap them very quickly and not overdue it otherwise you’ll quickly lose speed or dive into the ground. If you want to dive or pull up it’s easy to overdue it with pitch up and pitch down.

I was trying to recreate the look of the griffin mount for gw2, as the dive down and dive up seems quite snappy and agile. Maybe the speed loss from pulling up could be adjusted a bit as well as speed gained from diving. I guess I feel that acceleration should be a tiny bit faster.

6 Likes

You nerfed the speed to an already partially restrictive racial ability for completely ridiculous, illogical reasons. Dracthyr will never be a level to engage in Chromie Time, and being able to save one to two minutes of travel time which by the way, requires player input as opposed to turning on auto run and flying regularly to old, irrelevant raids or pet battles does not justify this change in any respect, shape or form. This is a ‘fun detected’ change and nothing more. Very disappointed in the dev team for this change.

Let me be clear: You have to actively engage with the game in order to get the most out of Soar to move around in the old world. In the best case scenario in Kalimdor, taking off from the tippity top of Mount Hyjal to get to the entrance to the Firelands raid, yes, I can do that much faster as a Dracthyr than any other race/class. However, there is a caveat. Suppose I went inside, did my transmog/mount farm, get disappointed that Alysrazor once again did not drop the mount, and headed back outside. Soar is off cooldown by now (and faster classes have probably already finished their farm, but let’s ignore that for the sake of this example). If I use it by the Firelands entrance to get over the lip of the mountains surrounding the entrance, I have to use at least one charge of Surge Forward. After that, if I were to completely level out, I would run out of steam and slow to a crawl over the Northern Barrens, which is not even close to the next closest raid instance, Onyxia’s Lair. Bear in mind, I have had to interact with the game in a meaningful way multiple times as opposed to just pressing the auto run key and pointing toward Ony. With clever gameplay, maybe I make it to Ony from Firelands, but can I make a sandwich at the same time? Brew myself some tea, or coffee? The answer is an unequivocal “no!”

The only true reasons that this change could ever EVER make sense (and it would still be a bad change) in the context of the reasons given in the quote are the following: Dracthyr would eventually gain access to classes that are not Evokers, and thus be a level that would engage with Chromie Time, OR dragonriding as a flying feature will not be added to the old world, which itself is a bad portent for a so-called “evergreen” feature.

68 Likes

If I’m being truly honest, I also find arguments about soar usage in Chromie Time to be somewhat nebulous.

Leveling is largely a solo experience where whether or not you can soar is, frankly, irrelevant. You can move a little bit faster while leveling in Chromie Time big whoopsie, y’know? I wouldn’t even be surprised if something like Soar wouldn’t unlock until level 50 or whatever anyways.

There is this weird obsession both in this dev team and the fandom at large with worrying about how solo play will impact other players (it doesn’t). And this feels like an offshoot of that.

I’m thinking about how for a long time I couldn’t use my TBC gladiator mounts on alts because, the logic went, that “it wouldn’t be fair to people who kept playing the character they earned it on” even though I had earned the mount, I just moved on to another class as expansions went on. (They didn’t change this until like, literally Shadowlands).

47 Likes

This thread got spicy…

The only solution I can see that will fix the problem for both sides would be to make Soar a purely cosmetic version of Dragon Riding. This will allow Soar to benefit from all of the Dragon Riding perks, Vigor system, everything. Remove the cooldown. Disable Soar outside of the Dragon Isles or enable both Soar and Dragon Riding everywhere (preferable).

This would also fix the issues of the Dracthyr starting zone. It would just give Dracthyr earlier access to the Dragon Riding system but would still need to advanced the quests to further improve it.

38 Likes