Feedback: Dragonriding

It’s been 15 minutes since my last post on this and I have to say, I actually change my mind, this change is ridiculous. The more I think about it, the more upset I get.

The excuse that this somehow has a perceived advantage on the old world doesn’t pass the sniff test. You can take portals -anywhere- and that is far quicker than spending 5 minutes to fly halfway across the continent. There is no advantage, plain and simple. There is NO advantage. In fact, it’s a slower and less efficient way than just taking a portal.

You can’t even use the excuse of leveling because dracthyr start at 58 and in the dragon isles where everyone will have dragonriding.

This design decision is very much old blizzard, the design decisions that I thought we left behind in 9.0/9.1, but here it is again. It’s basically a running meme/joke about “fun detected”, but truly, this is the exact definition of a “fun detected” moment.

152 Likes

Maybe this is in anticipation of old world time content?

otherwise, Boo this blue! BOOOOO!

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Since Drakthyr can only be evokers, I think the OP racial argument is much weaker. People aren’t going to flock to dracthyr and race change to dracthyr for their racials, because most people cant due to their class. And with transmog restrictions this would only be useful for mail. Unless this indicates you guys are planning on opening up other classes to dracthyr in the future?

There are things that ONLY demon hunters can do, and places only demon hunters can get to. Since Dracthyr can only be evokers, soar may as well be a class ability. For the longest time mages have been drastically more efficient at teleporting and travelling in the world. What is the difference between a mages port/teleport ability and something like soar?

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It’s an unreleased alpha for a video game. You need to calm down and take a breather.

Open world pvp is a thing.

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I dislike this because of the implications. Is this a hint that flying in the old world on our new dragon mounts is something much further out than 10.1? Why?

Dragon riding is such a win as a feature I hope you guys don’t keep it locked into the dragon isles more than is “necessary”. If you open up flying in azeroth and the world beyond you wouldn’t even need to nerf soar.

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Then make it not useable while in combat? The answer to that isn’t “make it slower” its “make it not useable while engaged in combat”.

And if you are concerned about people flying away before you engage them, well they can already do that.

Lastly, yes it is an early alpha for a video game. A video game I have played and been passionate about for 14 years of my life. I re-read my reply and it’s not unreasonable. I am not insulting anyone or being overtly mean, I am providing feedback on why I disagree with the change. This is the time to provide feedback on these changes, not throw my hands in the air and go “well its only alpha”. We’re in a forum thread to discuss feedback.

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Alternatively, you could just not do this and virtually nobody would complain.

The feedback you’ve gotten within just a couple of hours of announcing this proposed change has been universally negative, with the exception of one person I’ve seen in this thread who VERY quickly 180’d on their stance and also expressed their dislike of this proposed change.

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The feeling to the, “weightiness” of the Dragonriding doesn’t feel as good as it did prior to the latest build. The reaction time to pitching, moving, the camera is delayed, it feels awful. What we had before felt perfect.

Why change it up for the worse? It feels awful now.

I understand the need to add some response time, but it’s too much right now and needs to be adjusted.

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Yea, because it possibly means that they are going to open up new classes to dracthyr and are concerned that too many people will race change to them so they can soar in the old world since it is so much faster. But if that is the case, that means they aren’t planning on letting us fly in the old world on our drakes throughout that whole time? How many patches will we have to wait?

If only evokers can travel fast using soar I don’t see how that is a problem since it effectively isn’t a racial anymore but a class ability. Soar already does not have access to vigor and is on a 5 minute cooldown. Only on certain flight paths beginning from height is it even faster than a regular flying mount.

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Surge Forward does not feel like it gives enough of a benefit compared to skyward assent. It needs to generate more speed or be prolonged a bit. Even in a dive it does not seem like it gives any kind of actual gain. I find I almost always choose skyward assent.

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There are also severe disadvantages to Soar \ Dragonflight that traditional flying does not have. Yes, you go faster. But you also have to actively do dragonflight. On alpha alone I’ve had a lot of “I got distracted for a moment and now I’m on the ground with none of my momentum” moments.

Let alone with soar where it’s like “oh now it’s on cooldown for 5 minutes” like I had during the Evoker starting area.

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Respectfully, when 99% of the feedback you’ve received is “Soar is fun, make it more accessible” and you do this?

It’s making me lose any faith I had started to gain in you.

You guys claim to be listening to feedback, but are doing the direct opposite of 99% of the feedback you received.

Don’t even get me started on the Slime Cat debacle on live.

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So I did some testing with surge forward. If you are flying at the horizon with little to no speed, it takes about 3 surge forwards to approach max speed, and you still need to angle downward in order to maintain that speed. Ultimately it is not worth it to do, as using those 3 vigor on skyward assent will gain you much more altitude and you will reach max speed in about the same time.

I think the issue is when you are at max speed, surge forward cannot make you go any faster than that. It seems like diving as well does not gain you any more speed than say gliding down at an angle. Max speed is max speed.

I think 1 surge forward should always make you reach max speed by the end of its animation/duration. Or perhaps have it exceed the maximum speed you would gain from normal flight. It needs something.

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I agree wholeheartedly. I really do feel that our latest feedback is legitimately falling on deaf ears and it’s very disappointing given the interviews I saw with Ion a few weeks ago.

Whenever something feels good and right in Alpha, I feel we can count on a huge nerf being implemented to make it feel awful. When it comes to player power, spells and abilities, I understand the need for nerfs, but that’s not what we’re talking about here.

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I personally thing it’s fine.

People are complaining about the change for the sake of complaining. What arguments are there for it to be 930% instead of 640% that also can’t apply to it being 1337% or 2560% ?

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That it will actually be worthless in Dragonflight zones now. It was already going to be worse than the mounts in long distance due to mounts getting passives and abilities, but being able to reach the same speed made it still an option for quick A to B travel. The mount would just have an advantage at maintaining speed over longer distances.

I think this change can be okay for the old zones, but they need to make it 930% in the new zones, as well as increasing it to 930% everywhere if/when they make Dragon riding work in every zone (Which I and many others are really hoping for.)

This is a big swing and a miss, in my opinion. Dragon riding should be the gold standard going forward for flying. The way you’re talking about it makes it sound like it’s just going to be another borrowed power system. Dragon riding is one of the most interesting changes to moment-to-moment gameplay since flying itself was first introduced with BC. It’s exciting to engage with and has received immense positive feedback so far, so why is there fear on the Dev side to embrace it? There will still be traditional flight style mounts, as this type of flying would not make thematic sense for every single mount such as the engineering copters, mimiron’s head, the disc style mounts, etc. If anything, this is a great opportunity to look at new ways to upgrade the old style of flying too either in a .X patch or for 11.0 to try to make it equally as exciting.

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The idea behind the first patch is if people really love it, they will attempt to implement Dragonriding into the wider game. It’s a process and that takes time, work, and patience.

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Looking at my weekly farmroutes through more than 20 different raids I don’t see any major distance I cover where saving a minute or 2 makes a big difference. Most raids I visit already have convenience portals or access paths. The height advantage you need for this is also not always a given.
In Warlords I would gain nothing playing Dracthyr.
In Wrath it’s a big maybe for some paths because of the altitude difference.
Most Pandaria raids are covered by CM ports or the engineering portal.
Cataclysm has portals close to most of the raid entrances and soaring can’t deal with certain differences in altitude (BOT, TO4W).
Legion Raids can also be accessed really quick by Warriors via the Class Hall jump.
And for all of my old raid farming I probably spend 90% of the time running inside the instances and in there my class or gear has a much larger advantage regarding travel over the Evoker/Dracthyr.

If there is any doubt in my claims: check the raid history of Nightstalker on Blackhand-EU

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It perhaps has to do with the amount of time walking world content that has been data mined. I still think it is only an issue if dracthyr were a race that could be many different classes, and people felt compelled to race change.

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What arguments are there for it to not be 930%? Because basically all of the reasoning posted here to justify it on Blizzard’s part falls flat in practice.

930% is fun. 640% is less fun. More fun is better, plain and simple.

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