Feedback: Dragonriding

It might be nice to have an optional tutorial quest that teaches people this Skyward Ascent tech as it’s really like night and day.

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Skyward ascent, as others have mentioned, in combination with gaining momentum makes flying feel much better, i’d hate if you removed this. As Pirau noted, it gives you incredible feeling of freedom when you can just execute skillful maneuvers and not have to land, as opposed to gliding and barely staying afloat.
Especially considering unupgraded dragon, this just makes the task of gathering glyphs early on a big chore - for example the Skytop Observatory is just using ascend several times, finding a ledge and then afk-ing until you regen energy again. In contrast, you can use this tech, play around with momentum and hight and circle around the tower to reach it in one go. I really hope you don’t nerf it for the sake of nerfing it - this doesn’t hurt anybody and makes dragonflying so much better: finding big ledges over and over again to glide just a bit is disheartening.

If it is intended, it shouldn’t do that automatically - you have more control if you can chose how much you want to go up - moreso for the races and challenges

1 Like

It appears that skyward assent has a 2 second immunity window where it will maintain your speed, regardless of what direction you are moving. So, if you are at max speed, you will continue to be at max speed generating vigor, even if you are using skyward assent straight up. I was able to maintain this window through 4 skyward assents in a row, going very high. Its fun!

I’m not a fan of the new turning changes that increase the turning radius of your dragon.

It feels noticeably less fun and less useful. Wow is a mouse controlled game, and there is 0 other instances in wow where there is the same kind of input delay on your camera/character control so it feels very out of place and uncomfortable.

This change was made to make your dragon feel more weighty and powerful, but it actually does the opposite IMO.

We have this idea that bigger and stronger means slower, but when it comes to flying mechanics, it’s the exact opposite. Small weak birds are more susceptible to air currents and have less contour, where larger more powerful birds can overcome the currents and have greater manoeuvrability.

Having my dragon able to make sharper turns in the air actually makes it feel more powerful. Like the dragons wings are so strong that it has mastery of the air currents and can use it’s mighty Wong force to dominate the sky.

The slower turning makes the dragon feel like it’s too light and is unable to overcome the strong wind.

It’s also just frustrating to fly shorter distances now as you feel like you don’t have the ability to get to where you want to go.

The wow camera actually moves way faster than the dragon turns now, which is causing disorientation and could increase motion sickness.

Maybe it just needs to be tighten a little more. But right now it feels worse than it did last week.

34 Likes

I agree 100%. Dragon Riding felt much better in the first week compared to now. I get that the intent is for DR to feel much different than Flying but this is noticeably worse IMO. You cannot really bank turns like you could previously which makes flying through tight spaces nearly impossible at times. The vertical pitch also suffers from the same issue.

23 Likes

Dragonriding needs a pitch key. I have a little issue with mouse control. Let’s just say I don’t invest in a fast response gaming mouse because my hands don’t work that fast. With the weightiness delay to pitch down I wind up hitting the ascend key, I try to pitch the camera down and between the delay and my hands delaying I am back on the ground with one fewer vigor. I want to love the feature but the trouble diving to gain speed is frustrating.

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Absolutely spot on. Compared to Phase 1, this week’s dragonriding feels noticeably worse. I understand that the change was meant to make you feel like you had more weight, but it really just makes everything feel sluggish. Definitely agree that it makes flying shorter distances frustrating, since it’s become impossible to swoop and turn properly. I would go so far as to say that I’m not sure that this could be even improved with tuning; I’d prefer the system just to be reverted to the way it was in Phase 1, when it was basically already perfect.

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I thought dragonriding was too easy in Phase 1, so I really enjoy the current iteration of it. It is challenging enough that succeeding at it feels really good.

Sometimes the camera gets yanked around and it is very disorienting. Not sure how to reproduce it exactly.

Sometimes you can lose the blue glow visual and sound, but keep the recharging vigor buff, which is confusing, especially since I feel like it happens even when descending at an angle that should be preserving the speed. I’m usually so high up that it is hard to tell if I am actually slowing down in these cases, or if it is just a visual bug.

Sometimes the high speed wind effect activates even when grounded or not mounted. I thought that maybe this was just a weather effect of the zone, but it seems to happen more the more I have been dragonriding in a given session.

The dragonriding talent UI is currently bugged for a lot of players (including me) so selecting talents is not possible, but from watching streamers it does look like they do really make it a lot simpler to dragonride, which I think is fine.

I think the glyphs are a little too simple to collect. Perhaps make it so collecting the glyph will start a time trial race to collect some more “mini-glyphs” in the area? Otherwise everyone is going to have every glyph by the end of day 2 of the expansion, which isn’t the end of the world, but considering how trivial it makes dragonriding, maybe it should actually feel like an accomplishment.

You do not have to be mounted to collect a dragon glyph, which is super minor, but a bit funny.

The “above max speed” camera effect is really cool. The Surge Forward ability locks you into this state for about 0.75s, while Skyward Ascent does so for about 3s, which just makes Skyward Ascent still the best option even for forward travel, and Surge Forward useful only for quick dives.

Overall, I love the changes, it really feels like I am fighting to control the dragon and get it to follow my orders.

Some unsolicited talent ideas:
Increased max speed.
When landing out of a dive animation (wings tucked in) at max speed, stun nearby targets for 3s.
Increased vigor regen while in a dive.
Increased grounded vigor regen for first 10s after landing from a flight that lasted at least 30s.
Skyward ascent from the ground has increased lift.

1 Like

We need to stop this mantra of content needing to be difficult or restricted for the sake of being restricted ? Glyphs are fine as they are, if you want race-like content do races. Races regenerate your vigor and set you on the starting position, glyphs are open world and need no such thing

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Greetings Dragonriders and Dracthyr!

With the next alpha build, we’re making a change to Soar for Dracthyr that reduces their maximum speed from (roughly) 930% to 640%. The maximum speed for Dragon Isles Drakes is unchanged. This only applies to the Dracthyr Soar racial ability.

In the Dragon Isles, all characters of all races are on similar footing in regards to their ability to traverse the terrain because everyone can summon a Dragon Isles Drake. However, this isn’t the case in other areas of the game where flying mounts are the mainstay of travel. In Eastern Kingdoms, Soar is currently over twice as fast as Epic Flying which travels at 410% speed. The result is that Dracthyr have a drastic efficiency advantage over characters of other races when doing non-Dragon Isles content, whether that’s Chromie Time quests, clearing old raids for transmog, pet battling, etc.

Soar is important to the identity of Dracthyr. From the outset of the design process we knew that Dracthyr had to be able to fly in some form, even if we didn’t know the specifics until later. But, Soar is also a Racial ability, and was never intended to be a massive efficiency or performance improvement over other races. These two goals are somewhat in conflict: Make Soar fun and fulfill the fantasy of being a flying creature, but don’t give one race an outsized advantage across large swathes of the game.

What we’ve found while playtesting these changes internally is that the speed change didn’t diminish the fun of the locomotion mechanics. The engaging control system, gameplay of conserving momentum, and challenge of navigating obstacles, are all still present, while also rewarding skillful use of Soar with being able to travel faster than Epic flying mounts. This hits both of the goals nicely – Dracthyr can engage in the dynamic, immersive locomotion of dragonriding, but aren’t able to blitz across a continent in half the time as other characters.

The Alpha period is time for experimentation, testing, and learning, and that often leads to change. Due to Soar being an evergreen feature of the Dracthyr race, we feel that reducing the top speed is necessary for the long-term health of the game. Thank you for your passion, feedback, and understanding. See you in Azeroth!

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Are there any plans to reduce the cooldown, or eliminate the cooldown while in the dracthyr starting zone?

also, if dragon riding were one day to be implemented in the old world, would this result in changing soar back into the same max speed as the drakes?

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What is the Dev argument against enabling Soar-level Dragonriding on the old continents so that other races can go as fast as Dracthyr? Making a race less fun to “be fair” to other races doesn’t make much sense, it should be the opposite for a premium product.

118 Likes

Yes, a thousand times yes. I feel like this is a feature built for people who play games other than WoW…this is the only game I play regularly, I generally point and click, don’t use many keybinds. I’ve spent an hour today trying to figure out how to keybind so I can pitch the drake properly and it’s just not working for me. I feel stupid, and I don’t feel inspired, and I don’t want to do these quests. In general, I like dragonriding, but have zero interest in doing anything competitive with it.

1 Like

I don’t really understand the point of nerfing the speed just for those reasons alone. Whether it’s farming content from any other expansion, doing those associated quests, farming transmog, or even doing pet battles, it seems like it’s more of a nerf just because the new class/race has an advantage on a 5 minute cooldown over the existing classes.

If going through with something like this, why not give Dracthyr vigor themselves, more charges for their 2 abilities (while also reducing the CD of those), or even a reduced CD on Soar with the CD starting on activation.

You could also increase the speed to 930% while in the Dragon Isles. While responding to feedback, please also improve how this ability works in their starting zone.

97 Likes

I will start off with saying that Dragonriding is easily my favorite WoW feature ever added and hope it lasts for the remainder of the game’s life.

Now on the topic of longevity of Dragonriding content in Dragonflight.

I have successfully completed all Advanced Dragonriding courses in the Waking Shores with gold rating. This was an incredibly fun amount of content while it lasted, and there are plenty more in the other zones so that will be a good weeks’ bit of content assuming similar difficulty.

I do not want these races to be the only content with Dragonriding (aside from traversing the world of course) since they are so fast to complete. It would be nice if there was more content that is effectively *locked* by Dragonriding talents to feel a sense of progression and reward with that system (completely optional of course). I would also like if there were updates across patches to keep these races fresh, something like adding more race difficulties past advanced.

1 Like

I have to ask you to be more specific in this.

Are we claiming that faster travel time from one raid to another raid is “DRASTICALLY” more “efficient?” You cannot soar in this content, correct?

You cannot Soar inside of a raid and it gives you no combat advantage for “clearing old raids for transmog” so frankly this argument seems flimsy beyond belief. Can you please elaborate on this more? Because right now it just sounds like you’re making Soar less fun because someone might move slower than a Dracthyr when traveling in the overworld doing nothing that is time sensitive.

Who is the hypothetical person who is disadvantaged by this and why are they disadvantaged?

139 Likes

While I do understand this change for the greater world, has any consideration been put into reducing the cooldown while on the Dragon Isles? It doesn’t offer anywhere near the level of advantage while there, and as the trees progress, it will become inferior there.

It would be nice to just soar around as a dracthyr instead of being a dragon on top of a dragon, if one prefers that, but the current cooldown on the Dragon Isles (and in the starting zone) makes it quite awkward and frustrating to manage.

62 Likes

As someone who has been providing a lot of feedback on soar, this post was somewhat expected, however it’s missing a vital point I assumed would come with any potential nerf:

Reduced cooldown on Soar.

The biggest problem with soar at the moment is the 5 minute cd, it severely limits any fun you want to have with it. Whether that be trying to maneuver difficult terrain or just use it for questing in the dragon isles, the long cooldown hampers it.

I don’t mind the speed change as long as we can get a much reduced cooldown, and I don’t mean just to 4 minutes, a minute would be a lot more reasonable. It would still reduce any suggested “Advantage” dracthyr have on the old world via the speed nerf and still having to wait a minute between uses, while also allowing people who want to use it to get places or to navigate difficult terrain to not have to wait 5 minutes every time they want to soar.

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I strongly agree with this, lowering the speed is fine, but the CD on it takes away immensely from the fun of the ability, especially because the CD doesn’t even begin to tick down until you land. I feel a reasonable CD for this ability would be about 2 min.

34 Likes