Feedback: Demon Hunters

While I agree Vengeance Mastery is less than ideal, the class has access to more defensives than ever before. We have the new Calcified Spikes talent which helps fade damage mitigation after Demon Spikes ends. We also now have access to Blur and Darkness. The Frailty rework also gives us a constant damage reduction.

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Why does Void Reaver and The Weak-Willed both make Soul Cleave apply Frailty? Even stranger, The Weak-Willed, a capstone talent, only applies to the main target where Void Reaver applies to all targets. In my opinion Void Reaver should be left as is and The Weak-Willed should be buffed/changed.

SC will double dip if you take both talents. You will apply 2 frailty to the primary target and 1 to all other enemies hit. I kinda like it.

Problem we have is fury generation. It is real bad. Increasing the fury cost of SC and SPB was a terrible idea.

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In the Havoc Tree, can we have Blind Fury and Looks Can Kill swapped in position and then linking it to Chaotic Transformation. The playstyle is a niche build that plays off Cycle of Hatred, thus having it in the center branch would make more sense.
Currently it feels pretty bad to channel an extended Eyebeam and over-capping fury; when all you really wanted was the haste buff from Furious Gaze so you can go back into doing Blade Dance to Chaos Strikes.

The Vengeance tree feels reel bad, the pathing and lack of considerable choice is troublesome. The frailty rework and relative weakness seems odd to pair with the removal of ABYSSAL STRIKE. Abyssal Strike was the go to talent on that row until a legendary interaction with immo aura knocked it down a peg. Seeing talents that have been dead since their inception still persisting while go to talents are missing is pretty bad.
Locking spirit bomb behind dead talents is just bad all over. bulk extraction is a nothing talent and always has been, in fact deleting the second half of the tooltip alone would make it considerably better, and still not a good choice…
Moving spirit bomb to frailty’s slot, frailty to Feast of souls’ position and feast of souls to spirit bomb’s current position where it can be ignored would be a great start.
6 talents that interact with a button we press every 13 seconds regardless of situation is a bit too much. This is why we wanted proper talent trees, as long as there is pathing, there is going to be pathing issues when 6 talents are buffing an ability pressed on cd, we already know the math, no matter what you choose you will buff it once or twice, even if you’ve tried to avoid it, thus you’ve already started buffing it, you are kind of pot committed to finish what you started, the math almost always works that way, hence the lack of choice. putting spirit bomb higher up the tree gives us a second spender and something else that could have a talent or 2 interacting with it instead of just immo aura
Soul Carver baseline, for the same reasons as above. Soul carver in the past had interesting interactions instead we have numerous non choices and regaining what was baseline, and talents making baseline spells work in the first place etc.
I don’t want this entire post to read negative, it’s nice to see painbringer back, it could have a bulk extraction interaction along with spirit bomb and frailty if you’d just delete the second half of the Bulk Extraction tooltip and finally fix the talent no one ever selected. Soul carver baseline would also have synergy with PB, trying to pick out a playstyle with the current pathing is just impossible. SC baseline isn’t the biggest issue but having a limited rotation means 22 of our talents are already dedicated to 3 offensive buttons and 2 defensive buttons
Abyssal strike has to be in the tree for the new frailty to possibly work I think, math is the answer. and if Feast of souls, soul barrier, bulk extraction (current iteration) are staying can they please be put in places where they block nothing, they are dead talents, if they were balanced to be mathematically strong they would still be very boring, except maybe soul barrier, just put them in places where they can be ignored, that might be the best option.

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This is a concern we’ve heard echoed from many sources and have been thinking about as well. When it is one legendary choice among many and contained to a limited window of time as with the Shadowlands version, the divergent rotational gameplay required by it can be novel and appropriate. But we are less comfortable carrying that gameplay forward as a more permanent talent choice, and will be testing a slightly modified talent version of Burning Wound that intends to streamline gameplay and solidify an identity as an effect that is at its best in low target count scenarios.

So, the following adjustments are currently planned (and as always, are subject to change):

  • Burning Wound DoT applied by Throw Glaive (was Demon’s Bite)

  • Burning Wound DoT damage reduced by 25%

  • Immolation Aura bonus damage on Wounded targets reduced to 45% (was 65%)

  • May be applied to a maximum of 3 targets

This updated talent version will be available for testing in a future update, and we’re hoping you’ll try it out and let us know what you think. Cheers.

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This is an excellent change.

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Changes 1 and 4 are concerning, if only because now you don’t necessarily have control over which targets have Burning Wound on them. Not necessarily suggesting both application methods, but that lack of control could be largely unfortunate.

EDIT: I think choosing change one or change four would be ideal.

EDIT 2: This also will feel even more unfortunate for a purely single target standpoint. If you don’t have to weave in a Throw Glaive on pure patchwerk because your fury generation is solid it will feel frustrating having to burn that global just to reapply it.

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A nerf to the talent and making it apply with TG makes it so very awkward. Nuance gone just like the wind from my sails.

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Should this maybe just replace Soulrend then? This seems like it would fit very well at the bottom of two Throw Glaive/Immo Aura clusters like I mentioned in a previous post.

I am inclined to agree with the edit here, one way or the other. I’m also curious how this will interact with fel bombardment which is right next to burning wound, since at that point I would assume you are just kind of praying it’ll go on what you need it to.

I understand the concern with the application method and overall gameplay and am hopeful that there will be more changes to the ability going forward, because as it stands I’m not sure when or why I would want this iteration.

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Love this change. Thank you.

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This gives me strong, “why bother at all then?” vibes. Are there really that many people who enjoy throw glaive as a playstyle? Personally I feel like if it has to be nerfed and limited this hard it’s better off deleted entirely so that it stops taking up space in the talent tree.

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I like this version of BW better, but Im still confused as to why you all are so determined to turn throw glaive into an important ability. We now have 7 talents across class and spec trees that do something with Throw Glaive. I think most people have expressed a disinterest in incorporating TG into the play style.

Leave BW on demon’s bite (keep the target cap), replace Fel Bombardment with Collective Anguish, and move Moargs Bionics and Soulrend to somewhere completely avoidable.

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Yes, there’s actually alot, Bloodlet back in Legion was a loved playstyle.

I think most like the idea of using throw glaive. If you don’t enjoy the playstyle, you can always choose not to spec into it. Choices are a good thing…

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First, thanks for the quick response and action, always appreciated.

3 initial thoughts:

  1. It is cool that there’s another way to spread Burning Wound (BW) in an AoE setting, but oh no! You took it away from Demon’s bite (DB) :frowning:
    Alternative 1, Any way to have DB and Throw Glaive apply BW, maybe Glaive Tempest too since there are glaives involved :slight_smile:
    Alternative 2, if Throw Glaive is the only way to apply BW, can it be a debuff that stays until the target’s death, and revert/increase Immolation Aura bonus damage on debuffed Wounded targets? (regarding dots, you know how we feel about dots :slight_smile: )
    Alternative 3, increase DoT duration.

Concerned that we have to use throw glaive as a rotational ability. Not as bad in an AoE setting, but weird in a Single Target setting.

  1. Not a fan of low target caps. Never have, never will. Requesting to increase the cap to at least 5 targets. Even in Season 2 when DB applied BW, we, or at least I, wouldn’t typically apply BW to more than 5 targets in an M+ pull.

  2. Don’t know what other changes are in store, but nerfing BW makes the left side of the tree a bit stronger and suggests us to go that route.

Happy Labor Day Weekend to you and your team

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Buff fel barrage. Right side of the tree is too weak. Left side too strong. Swap KYE and BW to even out the sides

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Lmao. Nope.

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Hmm seems nice as a 3 cleave option. But not sure on the placement blocking glaive temptest/ fel barrage. It would be nice if those abilities applied burning bounds but a less effective version with those spells maybe? From a fun aspect. It would also possibly give glaive tempest some scalability with immolation aura damage on bigger pulls. The physical damage on glaive tempest could benefit from it increasing immolation aura. And then maybe just buff fell barrage to be worth using for a minute cd.

Fell barrage already scaled with mastery. Glaive tempest could scale better if At a lesser effect then the normal limited one.

I would advocate trying to tie burning wounds to glaive tempest/fel barrage since it just blocks it off. Doing Burning wound + fel barrage/glaive tempest. Or burning would throw glaives/ glaive tempest and just buff fel barrage would be nice. Burning wounds interacting with the talent it unlocks could be fun. Thematically it would be cool for both to add burning wounds if throw glaives can burn you, a glaive tempest could too and fel barrage is like a fel flamethrower so… my thoughts.

Right side of the tree is EXTREMELY weak compared to left side. Please help the right side.

Also middle could use come love

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