FEEDBACK: Demon Hunter Class Changes

You really want MORE of our abilities to be used in both AOE and ST? That’s one of the main problems with Havoc: there are never any decisions to make, and you just press the buttons that light up. If anything, they should make Glaive Tempest baseline and tune it to be an AOE-only spender that replaces Chaos Strike on more than X targets.

This plus a baseline Bloodlet would go a long way in making the spec more interesting.


Let me preface this by saying you guys are doing good work under the circumstances you are under.

While I did not like the previous iteration of UBC, in a vacuum it was better than this. There was some semblance of thought put into previous UBC and where you had to land to detonate by the player, or running out on a gcd to capitalize on getting it right. I disliked UBC for the fact it was tied to latency, and thus made it unreliable to some.

We got new UBC (Fel mastery) back in its stead but at a lesser value? Can only be used via immolation aura and damage is sub optimal compared to options even uncapped as far as the math works out. But it looks like we got a worse Fel Mastery.

In order

  • Fel Mastery (150% Fel Rush Damage)

  • UBC (X% End of Fel Rush Skill Shot, haste effected via Immolation Aura)

  • UBC (300% Dmg Fel Rush on 30 sec cd, haste effected via Immolation Aura)

You went through all this iteration basically to just gives us Fel Mastery back on a 30 second cool down with haste effecting it via Immolation Aura.

While I don’t mind the idea of the new UBC, it is rather weak by comparison, and I just don’t like the idea of priming Fel Rush with Immolation Aura. Immolation Aura makes us want to stand in the pack, there are things that are built around this-

  • Growing Inferno (Potency Conduit) Immolation Aura’s damage increases by 10.0% each time it deals damage.

  • Burning Wound Demon’s Bite leaves an open wound on your enemy dealing (5% of Attack power) Chaos damage over 15 sec and increasing damage taken from your Immolation Aura by 50%.

  • Fel Bombardment Immolation Aura damage has a chance to grant you a stack of Fel Bombardment, increasing the damage that your next Throw Glaive deals to your primary target by 20% and launching an additional glaive at a nearby target. This effect stacks up to 5 times.

And via Fel Bombardment

That is 2/8 Legendaries being tied, and 2/4 Potency Conduits being tied to Immolation Aura uptime in some way or another.

While Immolation Aura only has an uptime of 6 seconds, having to delay damage to pull off an empowered Fel Rush does not feel good; as we all know a lot can happen in 6 seconds. Priming with a different ability would be nice, but not something that prolongs us wanting to be in the pack (suggestions would be Eye Beam, Vengeful Retreat, Chaos Nova).

One idea someone mentioned that I liked, have Immolation Aura (for ease of talking about it), change our next Fel Rush to Infernal Strike (obviously damage enhanced version of Vengeance). It’s already apart of the class (not spec) tool kit, easy to use, synergizes class abilities, can be used for interesting mobility or damage.

TLDR; Buff Unbound Chaos damage to compensate with other talents on same row, and find different ability to prime Fel Rush.


The “cool” factor was having the wrong female metamorphosis pop out for male demonhunters despite 10+ builds of bug reports.

Now I don’t have to feel bad for being forced into a talent that was so overwhelmingly better than the others.

Next will be complaining about the Inner Demons legendary because it’s the same bug there as well.

How hard is it to fix a damn bug that started in Legion, that they then fixed a year later, and somehow brought back in Shadowlands? Unbelievable.

That’s gone already. Removed that legendary last build.

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All this work on gimmick talents like UBC while we’ve been asking you every build what needs to be baselined, especially first blood, for this spec to actually feel anywhere close to a complete kit.

And nothing.

What do we actually have to look forward this expansion?

Every expansion so far all we’ve done is LOSE passives/active abilities/defensives.

We’ve gained virtually nothing besides a nerfed azerite trait.

If you are looking to dunk this class down to the popularity of feral druids and survival hunters, you are doing a very good job.

You can’t even say we have aesthetic rewards to look forward to, considering the new male night elf customization marks can’t even be used on this class.

The Shadowlands armor sets are 3/4 covenants rogue set, 1 covenant druid set, 1 legendary armor a rogue set, 1 raid leather set a rogue set.

Not a single leather set mixing with DH/monk aesthetics or leaving open spaces to display our tattoos.

So the gameplay is declining to the point of nonexistent, and we don’t even have armor rewards to look forward to either.



In the latest build of the Shadowlands Beta, we’re reworking Unbound Chaos.

The previous entry in this talent location, Fel Mastery, was a straightforward damage increase to Fel Rush. But you needed to use all of your charges of Fel Rush within your damage rotation to take full advantage of the talent. Since that playstyle already exists with Momentum, we want to provide a talent here that injected Fel Rush into your damage rotation less frequently. The inner demon crashing into your enemies shortly after your fel rush completed was an attempt to present that damage in a more visually impactful way, but ultimately it does not feel very responsive.

As a result, we’re changing the design to enhance the damage of Fel Rush directly.


What a lazy solution.





I mean, seriously? This has to be a joke. How about we remove the skill from using an ability and replace it with a reused talent. This is not what we asked for and this has really thrown Demon Hunters out the window. Very lazy.


Unbound Chaos was one of the few things about Demon Hunter that actually felt skillful. If played correctly if was great for AOE. I hope they reconsider this change as DH in Shadowlands doesn’t seem like a class that is fun, nor actually helpful to your group other than the 5% debuff.


Class dev bandaid fixes at their finest… Pathetic.


Ok, but when are you going to make First Blood baseline?


you guys literally dont listen to feedback


I hope this means you attempt to make them the same damage wise, cause now we have nothing uncapped (barely anything forgot immo aura) while others have uncapped abilities… besides the point its just by far behind number wise on every situation, ST and AOE then its previous version.


There are only 2 possibilities for the state of havoc right now. Its either apathy, or incompetence.

I think its apathy, I find it hard to believe that after all the suggestions that have been brought forward, that this is the best you can do. So im left to wonder whether the person who is in charge of DH is phoning it in or is incapable of taking class feedback and working it into a feasible core design.


I’m assuming that Kaivax did not work directly on this change and he’s here to garner community feedback on the change.

The key take away from this response is that UBC was an attempt to provide a new interaction that provided consistent responsive gameplay feel vs Fel Mastery. When it didn’t fit that goal it got rolled back effectively doesn’t mean its the end of the world.

The problem is that the feedback from the UBC experiment was edit:[“optimizing around UBC and incentivizing cycle over first blood removes blade dance from the rotation and It feels bad that we don’t use blade dance anymore”], “It feels bad that it doesn’t hit where I would expect”, “Why not just apply the damage to fel rush directly”.

This new change UBC (Fel Mastery 2.0) is the current answer based on the inital feedback and screeching.

There’s existing suggestions we should be upvoting vs getting upset that this is “lazy design” or “not a solution”. Re-enforce positive suggestions and solutions vs screaming that this is not great for the class


UBC was not the reason we stopped using blade dance… Cycle of Hatred becoming BIS is the reason we stopped using blade dance.


True, I did mispeak there, optimizing around UBC killed Blade dance thanks for correcting me Shabz


Yeah sure, but if you tie the damage to the ability and remove the animation or whatever why does the rework NERF that talent. Like sure, it couldnt hit where you’d like but keep the dmg profile the same and maybe just make the ability hit whatever target is hit by fel rush? And by doing so, it even removes the skill element from the ability.


Stop trying to make movement abilities part of a damage rotation. There is vastly way to many variables that come into play when it comes to movement abilities to make them reliable for a damage rotation.

They could have simply moved UBC to go off of chaos strike instead - baking in the legendary they removed. It also gives us an AoE that is viable.