FEEDBACK: Demon Hunter Class Changes

Hi, I have a community discord #Shadywish that’s open to everyone (for AOTC/Voidwing carries for charity, small plug if anyone in this forum randomly really wants their dragon before Shadowlands on Horde side), but we don’t have any really great chat channels for stuff like this. You can DM me on Discord though and I’d be happy to explain my thoughts, Cryoxene#3567.

I will say, my thoughts on non-VDH/BDK tanks are subject solely to the level of play that I’ve done with them since MoP. (Gold CMs on all but bear, a little raiding on Paladin in Legion, 15s and raiding on all in BFA). So the chance of me just spouting off nonsense goes up. That said, I am extremely open to feedback from spec communities on my ideas so that maybe I can make that document as accurate and helpful as possible.

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Adding sinful brand spread to meta isn’t helpful for survivability. I think you should consider adding the sinful brand aoe application to fiery brand and take it off meta. This will make fiery brand much more useful in dungeons and it will gain almost no value in raid, which is a good balance.


Didn’t know you were a girl! Nice to meet you. :blush:

A+ research, my friend. Change the world!!!

If I was supposed to be offended by something you wrote, I missed it. :laughing:

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The thing I like about Sinful Brand on Meta is when you really, really want to pull three M+ groups (or when your bugged Shadow Priest really, really accidentally does so with Mind Games), there is no single button in tanking that is as powerful for 15 seconds without a talent as that.

But I’m not saying it’s the best pick. My main DH on beta is Venthyr for that reason. It is pretty fun! It feeds the problem of VDH, however, which is more help when we usually need it least then leaving us very vulnerable.

It’s been available at the conquest vendor for 2 conquest for awhile now. If you copied a character over from live and leveled it, you probably had conquest from the copy and could buy it. Otherwise yeah it is kind of weird because most people can’t test it. From my testing after using demon’s bite you get a buff and then after using chaos strike or eye beam the buff is consumed. Which isn’t anywhere near doing what the conduit says it does. Doesn’t work with demon blades either. This conduit has been bugged since they put it in months ago and we still don’t know how they intend for it to work exactly.

This week’s Shadowlands builds come with a tuning pass to each of the Demon Hunter Covenant abilities.

The Hunt had recently been redesigned to have a lower cooldown DoT application to 5 targets, and the removal of the teleport and fury generation bonus. We’ve since the tuned the ability to be more competitive with Sinful Brand.

Similarly, Elysian Decree has had its damage increased significantly.

While we like the thematic texture of Fodder to the Flame, we’ve observed your feedback about the way it ties a very mobile class to a specific area. We think this could be an interesting tradeoff, but the benefits of standing in the pool of demon blood need to be compelling.

Stay tuned as we iterate on this idea further.


I’d like to quote myself.

We. Don’t. Need. Tuning. To. Borrowed. Powers. We. Need. An. Actual. Baseline. Why. Are. You. Focusing. So. Intently. On. Covenants. When. We. Look. Like. A. Level. 10. Class. At. Max. Level.


Wait there is more issues then just the covenants for havoc…

if the spec itself is lacking adding borrowed power to compensate doesn’t make the class any better. Everyone has covenants but everyone also has a baseline kit. we are VERY LACKING in baseline kit and FORCED into talents and it takes away every opportunity for synergy in our spec.

EX: Like you CANNOT TAKE ESSENCE BREAK over first blood, FIRST BLOOD IS MANDATORY for essence break to work functionally.


How are you planning to reconcile this against a playstyle + talent build that is built around having the DH use their mobility tools as part of their damage rotation?


Thanks for engaging on the covenant abilities. Could we get the conduit “Soul Furnace” looked at for Vengeance? How about a new mastery?

I’d also like to point out that Soul Cleave is now target capped and builds that don’t run Spirit Bomb are basically capped at five targets outside of the weak Sigil of Flame and Immolation Aura damage. Other tanks like Protection Warrior had many capped abilities readjusted earlier on in beta, please consider reducing Vengeance’s dependence on Spirit Bomb for threat.



seriously though its really not fun, if you want to kill your demon hunter player base you are on the right path.


We got a blue post, yelling or being disrespectful to blues isn’t gonna accomplish anything.


It’s been over a month since we’ve seen a blue post in this forum.

And this is what they deliver.

I mean, I’m pretty upset about it. Can you really blame anyone else for being upset as well?

Feel free to hop on over to the monk forum to see blizzard’s blue post today. Clearly, it’s not too late to make some important design decisions or properly tune class toolkit abilities


it isn’t meant as disrespectful they’ve looked at our feedback and determined that THE COVENANT is an issue and our baseline isn’t mentioned because they do not feel it is an issue. I am making sure they understand what THE ISSUE is with havoc.


Okay, but pounding sand is just gonna get them to pay even less attention. It happened with Death Knights.


The consensus among the player base seems to be that the baseline toolkit is not interesting. I can understand why people are using the all caps because the class needs work before addressing issues with covenants, as changes to our baseline rotation and abilities will have implications for everything else. And there are some helpful and constructive suggestions already in this thread.


While I am excited that we may receive a buff here, please do not remove the nature of the spell. The on-demand damage reduction of this ability is great for DH tanks.

Let me give an example. 30s Before pulling, cast Fodder. Now you have a demon friend that barely tickles you. Then pull the boss. You dont need the damage reduction now, but the demon friend is ready and willing. Then 30s later you will need it, so at 25s you kill the demon. You now have a 30s damage reduction and in 60s you will have another demon ready to go.

Or in mythic+, you can cast Fodder on an easy pack and drag him through the dungeon until you decide you are going to make a big pull. The demon lasts 2mins, so at 1m50s, you make that big pull and kill your demon. You now plant your feet and enjoy 30s of damage reduction. In 10s you can then recast fodder and kill him just before the previous 30s ends.

The flexability of this spell is wonderful. The biggest issue is the attack speed increase should instead be haste. I do not notice the damage aspect at all and once I am geared, it would be nice to have more haste than more attack speed.

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Is it? I think even if the buff was three times what it is now most people would prefer not to take it.


You currently have 2 choices for damage reduction. Sinful brand which is 30% slower casting for 8s on a 60s CD vs 10% damage reduction AoE for 30s on a 2min CD.

For M+ I’d rather have fodder as it has more damage reduction overall. In order to get the AoE of sinful brand, I need meta which is every 3mins. Plus it lasts for 30s for those big pulls.

There were also plenty of bosses in raid that I rarely moved and didn’t miss out on the full duration.

Pretty disappointing that Havoc probably isn’t getting any more changes. I would guess that the next updates will all be tuning related :frowning: