Nah, GA is a fine button. It’s useful as an aoe runic power spender. It’s not like Shattered Frost is going to be a replacement for it. Since razorice stacking can be slow and ga is useful for that itself. We don’t need less runic power spending options. Definitely needs a new model and visual effects though. I don’t think anyone would complain about it if it didn’t look like crap
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Hello team DK, first thank for the opportunity to write feedback about one of my favourites class.
I will like to write first about some bugs that I encounter for the dk, (blood and Frost mostly):
First the new blood draw talent in the general tree: this one trigger the secondary effect all the time even the first is trigger; note that this interaction is amazing but can work with only an internal cd for the second part that is reflect in the tooltip to be more consistent. Maybe 30 seg or 45 seg but the value of the talent in practice come from the second effect.
Blood Talents Bugs and feedback:
Bone storm: the rework talent is amazing but with reinforced bones consume all bone shields to; that is contrary to the first post but tooltip is clear; tombstone give an even exchange of bones shields for a absorb shield. But with bonestorm you lost a lot to be rewarded in 12 seg (if you don’t die in the firsts seconds; 15% heal in AOE in the first second is insufficient for the investment. The spell is very load of maybe instead of healing an absorb shield instead of healing similar to tombstone (with a talent that give absorb shield every time that a bone is consume, make this is not even a problem).
Frost talents bugs and feedback:
Arctic assault: the razorice that apply is remove by any spell if avalanche is no talented, the position after obliteration can be change to be a part of other build like shatter blades or breath without commit to obliterations.
Shatter frost: this just feel strange to use because in AOE is better to pop every shatter blade that the normal gameplay loop in aoe but in a bad way. Maybe if you add the effect of that trigger damage is no the damage done and the damage is a base value (like 1 frost strike) that can trigger all target hit with 5 stacks of razorice. To avoid the gameplay loop of popping aoe shatters, because just feel bad as frost, that is an unholy theme.
Frost scythe: this have a lot of problem, because use runes the same as a obliterate but do less damage of a obliterate with kill machine and artic assault in DND, doing the same in his cap zone or less because the fact the frontal radius is very small that no match well with the animation, need to be more yard for the cone to be effective, feel bad using in every scenario except when you no have kill machine. My suggestion if you are thinking of tunning just remove the rune cost and add 2 rune generation plus one stack of kill machine. That way in any scenario is great to use in cd and the cd reduction make it variable.
Pillar of frost (icecap): just made a node to select 2 version of this spell like the paladin wings because the cd reduction just makes the gameplay a frenzy that all ways end feeling bad; if you don’t hit the good amount of crit you end holding other cd that you want to use in pillar, when the cd is close to end but miss some seconds because RNG. Is so notorious that playing death bringer with painful death feel much better by just removing icecap from the build.
Hero talents Bugs:
Deathbringer: Reaper mark auto explode at 35% health regardless stack count or duration just explode and when you have dancing rune weapon active apply 6 soul reapers sometimes.
San´layn: infection of sorrow is no consume by the next heartstrike but all for the duration the buff that is never consume…only happen in blood spec. but removing every disease for the duration.
It’s roughly %5 for trash at the moment. If the offhand is added it, it’ll 100% be an equal replacement to GA on damage alone, but it’s still an AoE only capstone and that’s a pretty bad thing to have.
With current tuning, Scythe does more than KM Obliterate with AA for DW. For 2h I don’t know the precise target count it takes over but I’m pretty sure it’s better at 3 targets.
Preliminary San’layn Blood Feedback/Testing.
- The mechanic where you’re spamming Vamp Strike non-stop during vamp blood feels weird. It has plenty of power, but it feels kinda like S3/S4 of Shadowlands during those windows.
- The disease damage from infliction of sorrow is clearly over the top. In some cases, that was nearly 40% of my overall damage done.
- The haste buff upkeep mini-game isn’t exactly compelling. You have such limited control over when you get a proc outside of vamp blood that you can easily feel screwed when you lose your stacks
Edit - Changes today looked a lot better on this front so far. Without the infinite runes, the spec feels much more reasonable. I still with the proc rate was slightly higher outside of vamp blood though.
Class notes:
Can we standardize on buff lengths for these short term buffs like Icy Talons and Coagulopathy?
2 Likes
No, you’ll juggle and you’ll like it. DKs are the acrobat class, juggle buffs until something falls over.
With the most recent update to Unholy DK’s (6/18/24)
The new Unholy blight feels good as to not have an extra button to press but with the new sudden doom change, it was already VERY hard to get 20 stacks to burst for festering scythe, let alone its hard to maintain a good amount of festermight stacks.
with this change it already guts what little festering scythe is, the issue with festering scythe is, its only good when you have casted festering scythe on that pack of mobs and its able to really get snowballing, but the odds of that happening are really small with the high pop count requirement usually has the pack just about to be dead so you get your 20 as soon as a pack dies and your left with 12 seconds of the buff that runs out before you get to the next one, very hard spell to use. would like to see the sudden doom change reverted, harbinger of doom placed closer to sudden doom and festering scythe buff last until used.
3 Likes
AMEN. DK will never be its best version with the runes all being the same.
The changes today for DK are in a good direction.
Now if we can have Pillar changes as mentioned by many, then DK is going to be cooking well imo.
I like the RP aspect of FS during pillar, but damage is way too high and dependent on this CD. Please make changes so Oblit build isn’t just pillar or no damage.
The Pillar change for Obliteration is 100% the wrong direction.
Frost doesn’t need more damage in the Pillar it needs it outside that window. This is doubling down on the “You get to hit a really [moderately in reality] big Obliterate - and now Frost Strike - during Pillar! but you don’t get to do damage outside of Pillar to supplement that ‘big’ hit” design that people don’t like.
But hey, at least Glacial Advance (and the free one from AA) are proccing Icy Talons again.
6 Likes
I think the change was so you didn’t feel capped on RP during Pillar.
I get what you are saying for sure. But it would require Blizz to actually make damage outside of Pillar, (Which it looks like they are doubling down on sadly). I like the RP change for FS, but I agree, the Pillar damage is out of control now. *even more so than before
2 Likes
Right, but that’s still the wrong way to address this, especially since they still haven’t done the resource tuning for the spec that they said they would and Obliteration can still overcap during Pillar, even with this change. It’ll happen less but just making it spend more RP is just a bandaid on Obliteration’s design problems.
And it doesn’t effect GA so you’re effectively not getting a benefit for 2h in AoE. Might as well just remove GA as a talent at this point.
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I agree. But let’s be real, until they actually remove damage from Pillar, whatever they do at this point would be bandaid fixes.
GA ever since the new talents were added has fallen of hugely. At this point, unless it gets changed, I doubt it will see much play.
I honestly think that this effect should have glacial advance (casts) added to it and it should replace hyperpyrexia. This shouldn’t have anything to do with adding more damage to obliteration’s pillar.
This is a really good effect for breath builds to feel like pressing frost strike more often when breath is down most of the time. Runic power spending and generation should feel good in a breath build even outside of breath. We have all of these tools to increase runic power generation and we only use them on breath.
Some additional thoughts:
First, going to repeat the biggest change that really should happen:
DnD should become an aura. If not for every spec, at least for the Rider tree as that is thematically and functionally built around moving (riding). To have a ground locked AE that you need to stand in for a buff is fundamentally at odds with that.
Other points:
A few talents feel just kind of repetitive. Example being Improved Deathcoil followed by Coil of Devastation. Improved Deathcoil is extra damage on Deathcoil and extra target. Coil of Devastation is extra damage on Deathcoil. It does it slightly differently, but it really just does the same thing. It really feels like they should just be combined. Improved Deathcoil should just increase the damage more, making part of it a dot and have it hit an additional target. And Coil of Devastation be removed.
Osmosis is counter to AMS primary function. For the most part when using AMS to absorb magic damage the DK doesn’t need or get extra external healing. By preventing damage you already reduce the healing needed. This talent will just make AMS a weak vampiric blood CD rather than a anti magic ability. A more intuitive and fitting design (especially with the name) would be for Osmosis to heal the DK for a portion of the damage absorbed.
Last thing for today a LONG standing issue.
Unholy DK and Control undead:
Can we get Control Undead changed so that it does not remove the Unholy DK’s pet when used. The fact that control undead has a significant cost for Unholy DKs to use and no real cost for Blood/Frost seems backwards to say the least. Unholy DKs should be able to use Control Undead without losing their pet. If the limitation is a technical limitation caused by an issue with the ability to control both with a pet control bar, simply make the controlled undead act as a AE driven minion rather than commandable pet.
8 Likes
Unholy blight change felt pretty great, I just was testing it on the beta.
DnD cleaving still needs work, it’s so awkward - and we already have substantial amounts of things to track.
Make cleaving strikes turn DnD into an aura for Unholy + Frost.
9 Likes
With the change to asphyxiate, can this just be a choice node in the general tree? With the current iteration, thats essentially what we have, but with no pve aspect. Having a silence in pve would be very useful imo.
I want to reiterate my point earlier, I like the blood/unholy changes.
Can we please have pillar updated so frost actually feels fun to play outside of cds?
6 Likes
Unholy Feedback
Glad to see Unholy Blight added as a passive for Dark Transformation that will reduce our burst opener by 14%. Now we just need to eliminate/merge a few more cooldowns and we’ll be good as gold.
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Vile Contagion and Festering Scythe both do the same thing, I’d rather lose the uninteresting Vile Contagion and have Festering Scythe as the sole AoE wound applicator. I think everyone would be happy with Festering Scythe adopting the Frostscythe mechanic of having a fixed cooldown reduced by bursting wounds over its current implementation.
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Unholy Assault should be a passive that modifies Apocalypse, you never use them separately so it makes sense to save a keybind and another GCD. I would appreciate keeping Unholy Assaults strike animation over Apocalypse though.
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Runic Mastery still seems like it will never be chosen, its a very boring talent and I would love to see something else replace it, probably something minion related.
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Pestilence is weak and RNG and if Festering Scythe is to become our main AoE wound generator then I would like to see this add some interaction with our diseases. I’ve had this talent not proc any wounds in AoE situations which is just ridiculous.
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All Will Serve can this please do something cool? A skeletal archer is definitely not it. Hell even a skeletal magus that benefits from some of the magus talents would be better.
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Visuals. Bringing this up again, our melee strikes need alternating animations when used back to back to become less visually jarring. Also our spell effects could definitely use a going over, the cool Drust visuals from BFA are sitting there ready to be used. Off the top of my head abilities that need some additional effects:
- Unholy Pact ignites flaming chains but deals Shadow damage…
- Defile should be an actual effect instead of a ground texture so important ground effects in PvE aren’t obscured.
- Death Coil needs more shadowy stuff.
- Epidemic very visually underwhelming, usually because it drowns your screen in numbers.
- Clawing Shadows needs its own animation and it can’t be the death coil one because we’d be machine gunning shadow bolts when alternating between Clawing Shadows and Death Coil, although if we held our rune weapon like a gun…pew pew pew perhaps.
- We still have 6 two-point nodes which I think is the highest of any spec, some having them removed entirely. I would really like the additional build variants having these reduced to 1 pointers would provide.
Frost Feedback
Just a quick word. Why are we baking more power into Obliteration? I don’t think this will do anything other than make Obliteration windows even more important and consequently when you can’t maintain uptime during those windows feels absolutely punishing.
25 Likes
Bdk talent tree reshuffle is really good. Only thing I would like is bettter pathing options for rapid decomp or purg. Otherwise great change.
I would like that a lot. Sadly, I doubt Blizz will change it since they want Festering strike to feel more impactful (Which this talent still doesn’t resolve imo). While we are at it, can blood have a cool scythe? Mayke make Consumption animation into a bloody one.
I would be okay with this, but it would need to be updated. 20% damage every 45 sec would be a little too strong.
Imo, this talent and improved festering should just be 1 talent nodes a piece. I’d like to see runic master changed to minion as well, though I am not sure how to go about it without it being another boring X damage increase node. Maybe make it so your minions have a chance to apply a new disease? Not sure though.
If they made this talent into a disease one, I’d like to see a way for disease to apply wounds (Which would then make festering strike even less desirable) but I also am not a fan of the wound mechanic in general, so I am biased and want it more passive anyhow.
I think the archer should be a choice node between a skeletal archer or skeletal assassin/zerker. I think it would be fun to have something new here. But in general, the archer needs some new skills/updates.
I agree completely with the updated animations and looks. SO many of the DK skills are beyond outdated. A visual update alone would make the class way more appealing.
2 Likes
This was requested already, but for those who completed the shadowmourne quest, can we please have a red version the rider mount when using rider? I think that would be so damn cool.
Also, as mentioned before by others, but can Unholy Bond be reworked to simply give your main hand weapons Fallen crusader? Even with the change to other rune forges, you will still use FC regardless. It has been the go to pick forever. We need a chance to actually use the other runeforges.
2 Likes