[Feedback - Build 45480] Hunter Class Talents + Beast Mastery

Classes Hunter
101

As a talent in DF? Yes! Make a passive for BM, as I’ve mentioned before.

I truly hope they’ll do something to fix it before the launch(preferably the above). Otherwise, on top of issues with previous talents, the new one “Call of the Wild” will probably be affected as well, which would be really bad.

Class Tree Changes:

  • Improved Mend pet reduced to 2 points for +25/50%. Also now has a chance per tick of Mend Pet to also dispel a magic effect from your pet.
  • Scare Beast is no longer on a path that connects to other nodes below it, it’s a one-off thing to the side of the tree.
  • There is potentially a placeholder +Agility node where scare beast was. This will be changed if it shows up in your build to something that isn’t direct throughput.
  • Chimaera Shot removed from the class tree.
  • Master Marksman will likely be changed to also work with melee critical hits.
  • Death Chakram will likely be changed to increase all damage taken, rather than just Physical. This should make it more competitive to Survival Hunters, who do a fair bit of non-physical damage.

Hmm…
(photo montage, not necessarily how it will look in the next build)
#https://i.imgur.com/RppQRsX.png

-Well, if anything, I would love a path to connect Keen Eyesight with Master Marksman. Considering what both of their effects are, it would be a logical path to have.

-I just put Scare Beast to the side, based on what was said in the post. It might be in a different place. I put it there to keep it in the same position, vertically, as it was before. It doesn’t naturally fit in anywhere on that side, if you ask me.

-Regarding Nesingwary’s Trapping Apparatus, ideally, it should probably be replaced with something else. But if they decide to keep it, at least rework it to where you get the effect simply from placing a trap, as opposed to the requirement of catching an enemy in a Freezing Trap.

2 Likes
102

They commented on a CC thread that they are aware this is an issue and working on a fix, so that’s something. I agree it should be a baseline passive choice, same as Lone Wolf, both of which should be tuned to be damage neutral.

That one is easy - simply move it down one row, swap Barrage and Master Marksman, and make a diagonal from Master Marksman to Keen Eyesight. I’d also move Explosive Shot up one row so it remains connected to Master Marksman rather than Barrage.

Honestly this needs to just be baseline. It is such incredibly niche utility and at such a high opportunity cost it will virtually never be taken. The only place you use it regularly is PvP against Feral Druids or other Hunters, or in the extremely rare dungeon where there is an enemy that is a beast, is worth fearing, won’t aggro a bunch of extra stuff when feared, and you can spare the 5 points minimum to pick it up.

Since you don’t know the other team’s comp before the fight in PvP, it’s basically never worth picking up unless you were planning on getting Imp Mend Pet anyway, and for dungeons I don’t see a scenario where it isn’t a liability.

I was watching a couple PvP talent reviews and they were taking Nesingwary’s, presumably because they are trapping anyway and it lets them ignore Focus during a burst window. I would cut it down to 2 ranks though, and have it proc on any successful trap, not just Freezing Trap. Having it proc on trap placement would make it too good in PvE, and we’d be back in Soulforge Embers territory where we have to work in multiple utility GCDs for optimal damage.

3 Likes
103

Yep, agreed.

Hmm, not exactly sure why you would do it that way. I would probably do it like in the image below. But feel free to elaborate on why you prefer it the way you mentioned.
Note that I’ve included some other things in the image as well, as per what I’ve mentioned before. They are as follows:

  • Aspect of the Fox has been added in the place where we can currently find Counter Shot, to allow for the class to bring some additional utility, other than Primal Rage(which isn’t exactly a massive perk in group-based content). A lot of other classes/specs are getting additional raid/group utility, and atm, I think hunters are the only ones left out in this department.
  • Tar Trap has been taken out of the tree, the intent is that it should be given to us as a baseline ability, when we level up. Same as it works currently with Freezing Trap.
  • Improved Exhilaration has been moved out to take the place of the placeholder node they mentioned in the post, the one they wanted to be about utility(where Scare Beast was previously placed).
  • Misdirection + Fogged Crystal have both been moved one row to the left, to where Tar Trap and Improved Exhilaration was previously placed. And, a path has been added from Fogged Crystal, to connect to the new position of Improved Exhilaration.
  • Counter Shot has been moved down one row, to where Misdirection was previously placed. To make room for Aspect of the Fox.
  • Wailing Arrow has been added below the new position of Counter Shot. Again, I would prefer it to be about the utility(silence effect), not damage.
  • The new position of Scare Beast, is as a tangent node that extends out from the choice node for Scatter Shot/Binding Shot. I think that would be much more useful for any scenario where you would find value in picking Scare Beast.
  • Keen Eyesight + Master Marksman. And lastly, You can see the path added as a connection from Keen Eyesight, downwards to Master Marksman.

That works as well.

Fair enough.

104

Your suggestion (which I’ve seen several times now, and I like) is a whole tree adjustment.

My suggestion is to move only those specific talents that are an issue, in the context that Chimaera Shot is being moved to the MM tree, and Blizzard has stated a plan to move Barrage so it no longer gates Master Marksman.

1 Like
105

I figured. I just didn’t wna include that image, which contained the other suggested changes as well, without also including a clarification. Not necessarily directed towards you^^

That it would be yes.

True. Btw, are you referring to this post?

Nimox: Barrage might be an exception to this, but Barrage is also much less mandatory as a connection point in an upcoming build.

As I interpret that, it might be that they are indeed moving Barrage. But it may also be that they’re simply adding connections/paths to circumvent that talent, for anyone who doesn’t want to use it. Or were you talking about something else that they’ve said?

106

I still think nesingwary’s needs removed.

I understand the pvp aspect of it, and to an extent it makes sense, but you shouldn’t only look at it from a pvp standpoint.

The concerns i have over nesingwary’s is that when they go to tune talents, they might overtune it and it once again becomes the go-to for surv hunters. Now, after reading tons of hunter community feedback, id say pretty much most pve and a fair amount of pvp hunters do not like nesingwary’s in a rotational context.

Traps are a 3 stage spell. 1. Hit the button. 2. Place the trap. 3. Wait for target to step on trap. This is A LOT to do in a rotational situation and honestly im surprised we havent figured out the dps loss it is if a trap isnt triggered, the seconds it takes to use the trap, etc… and adjust the dps accordingly. But, on to my point.

Those who played the terribad nesingwary’s ST rotation in SL knows how clunky it is, i know i do bc i played it as well. It would be a huge disappointment for most of the playerbase if nesingwary’s stayed in the game. Just being frank.

Honestly, if they made steel trap or catrops target based like KC, that would really be a cool spell to replace it. Heck, there is PLENTY of space both on the generic AND the surv tree to make more lines for additional things like this. Heck, surv has the smallest tree in the game.

I am 100% positive that there is a place where nesingwary’s focus regen can be added to another spell without it being on the tree.

2 Likes
107

I have zero interest in ever playing Nesingwary’s, but I don’t necessarily want to take that option away from PvPers who would get great use from it. Maybe sticking it in the PvP talents is a possibility?

What would you replace it with in the class tree?

Edit: Maybe the old Improved Aspect of the Hawk effect, where you have a chance on auto attacks to get a stacking attack speed buff? Thematically appropriate, useful for all 3 specs, could easily be a 3 rank talent for a 1/2/3% attack speed increase stacking up to 3 times?

3 Likes
108

Aspect of the Pack -
Increases the critical strike chance of all raid and party members within 100 yards by 3% for 1 hour.
It’s high time hunters joined the table with a raid buff.

5 Likes
109

this sounds super. i’d really like the pvp talent that turns cheetah into a short group sprint (a la stampeding roar) to cross into general use as well (sorry, just reminded because i still miss OG Aspect of the Pack even if everyone else lived in fear of hunters using it in dungeons!).

1 Like
110

Well the trees are the chance to get rid of crap we dont play. That time is literally right now.

Id add it as a pvp talent tbh. It fits there.

Alot of people are saying go with a raid wide cd like an aspect, which is fine, but i honestly dont think blizz is going to add an active raid-wide cd. A passive one, maybe, but not an active one.

People are complaining about serpent stings placement. Swap the traps line where improved traps/nesingwary’s/steel trap is with the SS line, adding hydra’s bite at the end for a little extra something. This would improve place of those spells and leave traps to the right.

Hunters also miss a large cd since the spec cds are reallly weak especially surv. The pet side is mostly bm and surv so id add wild spirits in improved traps, then its leggo where steel trap is then add an additional node where pets do 75% more dmg and procs wide spirits as well. This would give bm and surv a big cd and cater to tgem.

1 Like
111

Well, yeah. You’d think that there could be a way to design it to be more useful in situations outside of PvP. Having said that, it is an optional choice, and as long as it wouldn’t be the optimal pick on that row, I would be okay if it stayed.

Steel Trap already exists within the class tree, not far from that very talent.

As for Caltrops, considering that entire bottom section is supposed to have focus on throughput, I could see this ability being added as a replacement to NTA. Something like:

[Caltrops] - Instant - 40 yd range - 25 sec cooldown

Scatters Caltrops in the area surrounding your target for 15 sec. Enemies who step on Caltrops will take X Bleed damage every 1 sec, increasing the longer they remain within the area, and have 70% reduced movement speed for 6 sec.

Replaces [Tar Trap]

Upsides compared to Tar Trap

  • Deals damage
  • Better slow
  • Target based

Downsides compared to Tar Trap

  • Deals damage(may be an issue in some scenarios)
  • Not 100% uptime

While we’re on the subject of traps…I would very much like it if the talent Improved Traps was replaced by this:

[Trap Mastery] - The cooldown of Tar Trap and Freezing Trap is reduced by 2.5/5sec.

Also provides additonal improvements to each trap.

Tar Trap - The reduction to movement speed from Tar Trap is increased by another 5/10%. And the effect sticks to the enemy for up to X sec, after they’ve left the tar.
Freezing Trap - Increases the base duration of Freezing Trap by 7.5/15 sec(1/2 sec in PvP).

Perhaps.

Thoughts on the Caltrops idea?

It would ofc be better than nothing. At this point, — knows we need to bring something more to the table, other than damage. Having said that, I’m generally not a fan of adding raid-wide passive buffs as utility, I would prefer if classes instead would be solely about bringing certain niche/situational perks.

But that’s just me.

Hmm, why not?

Not entirely sure how you mean.

I would say that BM is generally going to be in a decent spot, going forward. Obviously depends on tuning. And how you spend talent points in the BM tree ofc.

IF picked, you’ll have access to Bestial Wrath + Aspect of the Wild, and then also, Call of the Wild(+ Bloody Frenzy in the choice node after).

Bestial Wrath is a decent CD, although, sadly, will now require us to spend points on an additional talent in order to get the CDR effect. The upside will be that picking this second talent will allow us to have more uptime on Aspect of the Wild. Probably around every second use of Bestial Wrath.

Having said that, I still think that the CDR for BW should be brought back to BW itself. And then, like I’ve said before, I would replace Barbed Wrath with:

[Primal Instincts] - Barbed Shot now also reduces the remaining cooldown of Aspect of the Wild by 4/8 sec, and Aspect of the Wild increases your Mastery by -/- for the duration.

When it comes to Call of the Wild, from what I’ve seen from alpha testing, it seems to be working fine, and also seems to be tuned decently well. I haven’t seen it used with Bloody Frenzy picked, but it will definitely be a potent “major” CD for ST use.

I can’t say if Call of the Wild, the pets you summon, if they’re affected by the deficit aura from Animal Companion, but I would assume so. If so, this means that it should be even better than what I’ve seen so far.

1 Like
112

As an active, ground target ability that deals damage? Not no, but hell no.

As a passive, something like Niya’s Burrs? Yeah, that would be cool.

1 Like
113

It would be target based, as per the description. Sorry if it wasn’t clear. Although fair enough, the actual effect would be placed on the ground, just not requiring reticle-based placement, like with traps.

The only difference here, mechanically, would be that this was a passive proc, as opposed to caltrops, per my suggestion, which would require you to press a button. Otherwise, both would place something on the ground, both would slow any enemy caught within, both would deal damage over time.

114

I think of Caltrops as a bunch of things in an area that you step on and they hurt you as you try to move. So maybe a target based AoE ability that applies a bleed DoT and snare?

1 Like
115

Yep, exactly. It would be easier to use, compared to traps. It wouldn’t require an enemy to trigger it, but simply for enemies to be within the area when you cast it on the current target.

116

Only issue I’d have with that is we are super snare heavy already - we have Wing Clip, Concussive Shot, Tar Trap, Bursting Shot, pet snares, and Chimaeral Sting from the PvP talents.

Converting Tar Trap into Caltrops then means sacrificing utility for rotational damage, which is also not great.

I still like Improved Aspect of the Hawk for that spot as a 3/3 talent. 10% on Auto Attack or Auto Shot to increase attack speed by 5%, stacking 1/2/3 times, lasts 12 seconds.

1 Like
117

I mean, as I recall(might be wrong), in PvP, such snare effects don’t stack do they? It would simply be about which one slows the most? And yes, we would have many different options for slows, but at the same time, all of Wing Clip, Concussive Shot, and Tar Trap, they all equate to 100% uptime, so…what would be the actual issue?

Hmm? The Caltrop desing I suggested would slow as well? More than Tar Trap, just not 100% uptime.

So, a 10/20/30% chance on auto attacks/auto shots to increase your attack speed by 5/10/15%, lasting 12 sec?

Fair enough. Wouldn’t be my pick(doesn’t sound very interesting) but, sure.

118

More that spending points to get utility that duplicates utility we already have with a little damage tacked on doesn’t feel great.

I mean you have to use it for the damage, and can’t hold it for when you need the utility. Same issue I have with Soulforge Embers.

No, 10% chance, 5/10/15% IAS, lasting 12 seconds.

1 Like
119

Okay, sure. I guess it would be a matter of personal preferences. I for one would very much like something similar to that, as an option to replace Tar Trap, for the times where you wouldn’t need the extended slow duration from Tar Trap itself.

And on top of that, it would only require 1 talent point, as opposed to the current one; NTA, which requires 3 points.

True, sort of. In PvE, you would know when to use it for damage, and when you might want to save it for a few seconds, so it’s up to use for the slow.

For PvP, isn’t the utility side of it much more important than making sure to use it on CD for the damage? Especially since the damage itself wouldn’t exactly be that insane.

Okay, still, not very interesting for a talent that’s positioned past the second “gate” in the talent tree, IMO.

120

Neither is Keen Eyesight or Master Marksman, but they are throughput, and the design for Hunters is that aside from Kill Shot (and Imp Kill Shot) and Kill Command, Hunters don’t have throughput above the bottom tier in the Class Tree.

1 Like