[Feedback - Build 45480] Hunter Class Talents + Beast Mastery

Sorry yes the new version Bloody Frenzy Talent. Giving multiple pets Frenzy charges would be a good interaction Eh.

I can see what you mean Still I’d OK with a reduced amount to Non pet misdirection targets Probably wont happen though even a 20% damage reduction would make us Meta in M+.

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Thick Hides removed Replaced by a version of Survival of the Fittest in former TH spot ? With a choice Node for shorter cooldown or higher damage reduction. Either way a single point node now that’s good

Born to be Wild reduced to a 2 point Node and Modifies Survival of the Fittest But No notion on what the modification is ? Better be good or its still a bypass if possible Talent for BM.

Survival of the Fittest removed from Tenacity pet and replaced/renamed Fortitude of the Bear, A casted +20% Max HP to Pet and Hunter for X duration. Was a 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds.

Fogged Crystal removed gone. In one respect for farming in open world IMO it would have had a place.

Improved Tranquilizing shot reduced to 1 point node Focus from successful interrupt 5 or 10 ? not posted

The Sentinel Owl being as its not a thing just a placeholder will wait and see.

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Seems like they maybe keeping the current pet specific traits, kind of wish they went back to be able to talent your pet of choice into what specialization it is, instead of lumping pet types together into specializations with mismatched family cd’s.

One big thing id like to see them change with hunter pets, bring back pet specialization talent trees.

3 Likes

Bloody Frenzy seems so odd to me. If it was there for a more beginner talent for hunters who have trouble maintaining stacks, I feel like 2 points for only a 30% chance still isn’t that great, especially because you’re getting 2 charges from Scent of Blood. It seems like a dead talent since it’s pretty quick to get to 3 stacks and aside from misplaying, stacks don’t drop off too often.

It did lead to a fun (to me at least) idea at least: frenzy would give you a haste buff per stack and could stack up more than 3 times, but would have a reduced duration. Building up as many stacks as possible going faster and faster till it falls off would really feel like a frenzy to me (similar to shadowpriest insanity).

I would also love the option for the old legion dire beast option instead. I think your idea of having the first option of the BM tree a choice between old dire beast and barbed shot (and subsequently changing the relevant talents based on your choice) would be amazing.

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I suspect more will be done to that area of the tree 2 separate talents both named Bloody Frenzy ?.

Still too many talents nodes for interactions with baseline Talents that previously were simply just baked in.

Dire beast path needs an point expense reduction.

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Aight, new build is up.
( Feedback: Hunters - #159 by Nimox-11491 )


  • Survival of the Fittest removed from Tenacity pets.
  • New Tenacity active button – Fortitude of the Bear: Increase the maximum health of you and your pet by 20% for 10 seconds.

Sounds good, haven’t seen the CD of the new ability though.

  • Hunter’s Agility changed from Avoidance to 4/8% Dodge per rank.

Uhm, what? Who thought this was a good change?

  • Thick Hides removed.
  • Fogged Crystal removed.

Waiting to see what the new tree structure looks like.

  • Born to be Wild now works with Survival of the Fittest and is now a 2-rank talent, reducing cooldowns of affected abilities by 10% per rank.

Soo…why couldn’t this have stayed at 24% total(12% per point)?

  • Improved Tranquilizing Shot changed to a 1-point node.

Good change. Nothing massive, but still good.

  • Survival of the Fittest added to the tree.

  • New Choice node for Survival of the fittest:

    • Reduce the cooldown of Survival of the Fittest by 60 seconds, and increase the duration by 2 seconds.
    • Increase the amount of damage reduction from Survival of the Fittest by 20%.

Really nice change. :+1:

  • Several talents on the class tree have had their positions adjusted due to Thick Hides and Fogged Crystal being removed, as well as Survival of the Fittest being added.

Hmm, we’ll see.

  • New (NYI) Talent – Sentinel Owl: Call forth a Sentinel Owl to the target location, granting you unhindered vision. Your attacks ignore line of sight against any target in this area. Every 200 Focus spent grants you 1 second of the Sentinel Owl when cast, up to a maximum of 12 seconds.
    • New Choice node for Sentinel Owl:
      • Sentinel’s Perception: Sentinel Owl now also grants unhindered vision to party members when active.
      • Sentinel’s Wisdom: While Sentinel Owl is active, your party gains 5% Leech and 3% Avoidance.

This, for the most part, will be fairly useless in raids. In dungeons, the LoS mechanic can see some value in certain scenarios. The Leech+Avoidance values are negligible, won’t do much of anything. Especially since it only affects your party.

But yeah, it’s off on the side, and isn’t a mandatory node for anything else so not a big deal. Provided this isn’t what they think of as valuable raid utility…


Regarding pathing changes in the trees…

  • The first thing that sticks out is the fact that they removed the path from Binding Shot/Scatter Shot down to Keen Eyesight, in the class tree. Now it’s mandatory to go through either Binding Shackles or Agile Movement, in order to reach it.
    • This is a bad change. Not sure why they removed that path.
  • Not to mention how now, since they moved Tranq Shot and Improved Tranq Shot out to the left side, you’re now forced to go through those, or Binding Shackles, in order to reach the bottom left capstone section, which is for BM + SV.
    • Again, they really should look at Binding Shackles. Making a change to make it more valuable in group-based PvE content.

Edit

New post, providing some insight:

  • Sentinel’s Wisdom is very likely being redesigned.
  • Hunter’s Agility changing from Avoidance to Dodge was mostly so there wasn’t a doubled-up Avoidance node on the tree.
2 Likes

2 minutes.

It was 3 points at 7% per rank, 21% total.

I disagree. This might be fairly useless, or it might be broken AF and functionally required. It all depends on encounter design. Give me bosses like KUJO or Shriekwing and I’ll be very happy to ignore LOS. Give me bosses like Patchwerk and I’ll never spec into it.

They missed a perfect chance to give us back a form of deterrence.

Leach Blows for BM on live it does not work for us. and Avoidance and or Dodge needs to go over 10% for a real benefit.

Looks like they reduced Keen Eyesight to 2-4% from 3-6%

2 Likes

The class tree is still lacking. Sentinel is a joke both in design and its position, by far the worst thing they could have possibly added to the tree AND you are forced to go through Camo to even get to it (link Lone Survivor to Born To Be Wild and unlink Camo from Imp Traps).

Imp Traps, Imp Mend Pet, Trailblazer, and Concussive Shot are all dead talents that will get ignored 99% of the xpac for PvE. Binding Shackles remains in a bad spot and it too is mostly useless in PvE, and completely useless in raiding. I shouldn’t be forced to pick either Binding Shackles or Imp Tranq Shot to get to Beast Master. The other side of the tree gets to snag run speed to get down to the good stuff over there which isn’t great but it is leaps and bounds better than either of these two “choices”.

One last note about the spec tree, you can get Imp Tranq without taking Tranq which should never be possible. Also, Rejuvenating Winds shouldn’t be 2 points and why does it have to be the sole path to get to Intimidation? Hunter’s Agility is just bad, avoidance was meh enough but dodge chance in PvE is a joke but there it is front and center.

The spec tree is still a gigantic mess with absurd bloat at the top. The overwhelming majority of content in WoW is 2+ targets so if you spec the tree for that situation you aren’t gaining anything new or exciting; old stampede coming back is nice but it just isn’t enough when you are also losing stuff like Thrill of the Hunt or Stomp to get it (I don’t think Stomp is a great talent in general but that is a conversation for another time).

What I’d still like to see on the spec tree (in no particular order except the first two points, obviously):

  1. Remove Loaded Quiver and bake the charge into baseline Barbed Shot.
  2. Reduce Barbed Shot’s CD to 11s baseline OR add a talent for this interaction, below Training Expert is a good out of the way place for it. Frenzy feels really bad to play at 12s especially at low haste like the beginning of an xpac. Give us an option to clean the rotation up early on that we can opt out of later in an xpac as you gain more gear.
  3. Training Expert reduced to 1 pt.
  4. Move Kindred Spirits to below Pack Tactics (where Loaded Quiver currently is) and make it 1pt for 20. This is a bad talent in general and should probably either go into Pack Tactics or into the class tree somewhere.

These 4 changes will put the top of the tree at 9-11 points without Multi-Shot/Beast Cleave or Flamewalker’s. That is how bloated the top of the tree is right now that you can cut a bunch of stuff and still be above 8 and barely started. We currently spend 13(!) points without Beast Cleave/Multi (3 more) and Flamewalker’s (2 more). That means in almost all PvE content BM hunters on the current tree are essentially forced to spend 16 points before the first gate.

  1. Change Thrill of the Hunt to 2 points at 1.5%/3% per stack max 3 stacks.
  2. Swap Dire Beast and Stomp; swapping them reduces the cost to get to Dire Pack without reducing the cost past the second gate. Or link Dire Beast and Dire Command, this doesn’t solve the issue of cost from BW to Dire Command but it becomes easier to get there.
  3. Swap Wild Call with Aspect of the Beast AND One With The Pack (reduce to 1pt for 10% just like Wild Call) with Animal Companion. This brings Wild Call, which is essentially a must have for the spec to function, up so it is no longer locked behind the very expensive Kill Cleave or Bloodshed. Something this important to how the spec feels/plays shouldn’t be so low in the tree or so costly to reach. This also gives an alternative route outside of AC into BW/Dire Beast for those who don’t like AC and don’t want to take Multi-Shot/Beast Cleave.
  4. Blood Frenzy seems very expensive for what it does, at most it is semi-useful during a 2min CD or rebuilding stacks which is very lacking for 2 points. It being down past the 2nd gate just makes it a tough to pick talent when you combine it with the talent bloat at the top of the tree.
  5. Both Sharp Barbs and In For The Kill are never pick talents given their positioning and the aforementioned bloat. Stomp just does more damage for free (both in focus and GCD costs) so it isn’t even useful to bypass stomp to move down toward Dire Pack.
  6. Aspect of the Beast seems like a very expensive talent. 15% more Bite damage in the current game is somewhere around 1% per talent point. In AE situations with Beast Cleave it does better but not by a whole lot; which is why it should be moved to below Killer Cleave. It would still be reachable under Bloodshed/Crows for single target.

There is so much meh in our class/spec trees that I’m having a hard time seeing the love that could have gone into them. We were hardly touched coming out of BfA and that is basically repeating itself coming out of SL. BM feels like it is losing stuff but also not gaining anything which is really really sad considering other classes are getting raid utility either added back or brand new. We are just getting more of the same but with less of it.

5 Likes

Hmm, okay.

:https://i.imgur.com/yulgEI2.png

Yes, it would depend on encounter design ofc. But keep in mind that there aren’t exactly a large number of raid bosses where they’ve utilized LoS in a way that makes it particularly useful to have ways to circumvent it. There’s no reason to expect that they’ll suddenly start making such fights a common thing.

KUJO can be done without something like Sentinel. And you can still damage him while LoS’ing his fire waves. Anyway, KUJO is a dungeon boss, not a raid boss.

Shriekwing hasn’t ever required something like this. The only time during that fight where you struggle to keep LoS, is during the shrouds. Though, it doesn’t really matter anyway as he/she takes reduced damage during that phase. And moves around a lot as well.

That they did yes. Although, I don’t recall if this was done with the current build, or the one before this one.

The main tree feels worse then the start imo.

The main reason why is because your REALLY getting forced into a pinch on the right side of the tree, and you barely reach 14-15 points before you have to go back and choose things that you really dont want.

Another issue is primarily for BM and msv specs. If your aiming for predator, bc lets be honest your not taking traps (how are they even still there?), you BARELY can get across the tree. Plus, why are we still forced to take shakles? Why is it the pinch point when it involves an option node that your not required to take?

My suggestion:
Move the KS, all the healing talents, to tge center of the tree and move misd, int, and the garbo dodge to the right. This will make it less painful to reach the sides of the tree.
Get rid of tge dodge talent, you can do better then that blizz. Its doa.
Move shackles and add meaningful talent there. If its a pinch point then it needs to be strong.

Finally, why do i feel we have gone backwards with the generic tree?

3 Likes

It wasn’t like that in the last build. But since they reworked, and moved the avoidance node, we can no longer take that to get down to the beast side. And they also removed the path from Binding/Scatter, down to Keen Eyesight, so now you are indeed forced to pick either shackles, or go through Tranq to get down there.

A previous build:

:https://i.imgur.com/chU96Cg.jpg

I am just at a lost here.
I just looked through all the other classes at their trees for that line. They are numerous things from dps to heals to defensives to movement speed. Mostly dps and movement speeds such as shimmer or roar or w/e. But we get talent that increases one of two choice nodes right before it. However, if we dont choose one of those nodes, we are not getting to predator, yet, if we choose to go through tranq we miss massive amounts of dps and heals.
I just attempted to go around the two choice nodes and the improved traps (again, why is this here?) and you can make it around them but you have to take ALL of the points above the choice nodes, plus you cant get to 3/4 of the latter nodes and you dont have enough points to go up both sides.

Issue found:

  1. Why is it i can take improved traq shot without taking traq shot?
  2. Why are we locked behind 3 key choices in row 6? Either int/trap, cuncus/trap, or improved traps?
  3. In row 7, why are we locked behind improved binding shot/ind?

If I may, let me reference the rogue’s tree since its makes much more sense.
In row 6, they have 6 nodes, and 5, yes, 5 of them are dps oriented. 1 of them is a versitility node, which can still be argued is better then dodge or avoidance…
In row 7, they have 3 nodes. 2 are MAJOR dps talents and 1 increased ranged talent like lunge, pretty much useless now that they are 3 yards.

So how is it we are forced into traps for 2/3rds of our middle section and healing in 1/3rrd of our middle section when other classes are getting dps oriented nodes throughout the entire middle section of their trees?

3 Likes

Not sure about placement, but the choice nodes should be:

  • Scatter/Intimidation
  • Steel Trap/Binding Shot
  • HE Trap should be where Steel Trap is currently

In my opinion you should be choosing between two similar things, not two very different things. Stun or incap, bind one or bind many, and then displacement by itself. The choices have seemed weird to me through this entire process.

Speaking of weird choices, I will again say that KC should NOT BE IN THE CLASS TREE. It should be BM’s first row in spec and SV should have Barbed. Serpent sting is way down the tree. What? Make that the first option in the upper left of the class tree. Lets get some real identity going here.

I realize this is BM focused, but the changes I want effect everything, so sorry for the rambles. That said, giving SV Barbed Shot would fulfill the requests for a bleed as Lacerate.

2 Likes

I’m talking about mechanics that require you to break LOS to avoid boss damage, like when you need to LOS the shriek. You can drop this on the boss, LOS the mechanic, and continue DPSing as normal, while others would have to wait (and this lose DPS during this portion of the encounter). You could also use it with the group LOS ignore choice node to help your healers by dropping it on other raid members who may be out of LOS of the healers.

Which would be a gain of ± 3 second boss dps every 2 min, on 3 bosses this expansion :

  1. Shriekwing (kind of)
  2. Jailer

2 fights over the course of entire expansion, isn’t really useful.

2 Likes

After spending a bit of time trying out different path variations.

I have reached the point where I would rather they just delete pathways entirely just leave the prerequisite points per block and allow us to just use our remaining point budgets as we would want.

2 Likes

Agreed it’s underwhelming to say the least. My point is that it doesn’t have to be, depending on how the encounters are designed.

Aspect of the Turtle for example would be similarly underwhelming if there weren’t so many soak mechanics where we can use it.

I don’t think designing a bunch of fights around a niche cooldown for a single class that will result in everyone else sitting on their hands is necessarily good for the game overall, but maybe there could be one or two fights per tier with this mechanic instead of one or two per expansion.

2 Likes

That’s the main part of it.

People absolutely hated Azshara for the LOS part of the fight.

Owl is just weird in terms of tuning/design.

If say it was a 30-60sec cd with a shorter duration, it would probably be decent against those mechanics, but as it stands right now, usually when you doing those mechanics frequently, but for a short duration.

At the same time, it would be weird to have 1 hunter fully negate a mechanic.

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I got that. It’s just not a very common thing in raid encounters.

Yep.

You mean like the original talent “trees”, from the early days?

Well, ofc they could do that. Though, I think it would be the wrong move to make a comparison with something like Sentinel’s LoS mechanic, to that of an immunity. I get your point, just that I’m far from convinced that it would turn out well, in a raid setting. Especially if you design multiple encounters per raid tier to have mechanics where you’d benefit from an ability that lets you ignore LoS.

Yeah, no, that part of the encounter wasn’t received particularly well.