Additional feedback on Niuzao, the buff is nice but the Ox still needs more. If you want to tie stagger into niuzao make stagger prevented from niuzao go into a shield after he expires, to explain more while niuzao is active he has his current benefits and tracks the amount of damage he took instead of you. After he expires that damage wether it be a % of it or all of it goes into a shield on your HP bar. Would make him a very strong button and the 3 min cd would be justified, you can even reduce this benefit for the Call to Arms niuzao. just a spitball idea but something additional ontop of what niuzao already does would be wonderful
3 Likes
I also feel Keg of the Heavens being made a talent needs to be back on the table. Even when we had that tier bonus (SL S3/S4) we STILL weren’t the meta (remember BDK/surv/destro god comp?)
3 Likes
Feel like it would be incredibly easy for them to just tack the Mighty Pour armor buff on during/after a BoC CB since the spell already exists in game
2 Likes
While the last changes for Purifying Brew is a GOOD Quality of Life Change, and Niuzao’s one is better than its last state.
I want to say that any of these changes are adressing the main issue we have with the class right now. Even the position of Niuzao + Buffs from it and their position makes it not even close to be worth to take the Stomp damage + Purified Stagger or Walk with the Ox.
Make Walk with the ox Baseline with 2 Points on Niuzao and Stagger damage from Stomp moved to the Current position of walk with the ox.
And with these changes, problems with the class, rotation degeneration because of Spinin crane ridiculous damage, AoE Scaling of defensives are not adressed properly.
You are just give us a QoL Change (While Brewmaster needs like 5 o 6 more QoL changes than just this one) that is not going to solve anything.
Please adress the problems with the AoE Scaling, damage tuning on abilities and change Blackout Combo interations. With the change to Purified Chi stacks, Celestial Brew interaction is amazing now, cause gives u half shield. But Purifying brew still useless, change it for something else.
Edit: Just adding something to currect Niuzao situation. Problem with Niuzao is not just cooldown or damage, is about the way it works. The easiest way to solve it in a decent way is to condensate all niuzao buffs in a single node of 2 points or make it baseline. And you can add 2 1-point nodes survivability oriented on the talent tree right on current Walk With the Ox position or Improved Niuzao. Which could be oriented for improving celestial brew shield amount, increase % of damage purified, increase % damage reduction from Breath of Fire or even a cheat death, avert harm, Black Ox Statue to work as it used to do…
Even with the changes and all 4 talent points invested into Angry Dave, its still not really worth it.
Appreciate the changes, hope to see more iterations.
Could we get Keg Smash range looked at, this is a pain point especially in pugs.
In Ion’s interview with PCGamer, he said this when talking about the performance of meta and non-meta specs in M+:
But perception matters more than reality here, and that data doesn’t offer much comfort to someone who is declined because they’re the ‘wrong’ spec.
I hope the devs realize the hugely negative perception of brewmaster as a spec that has developed over the last few expansions. Now, after a very rough first season of TWW, it’s worse than ever. By raw key score, brewmaster is not the “worst” tank in M+, but it certainly has the worst perception by the rest of the community.
People talk about never inviting brewmasters to groups because they’re so weak. Tank content creators on Twitch and YouTube, who for better or worse heavily influence the views of a lot of players, actively ignore brewmaster, and only brewmaster, when making content.
Players mirror these sentiments. I’ve gotten comments in game ranging from, “you’re the first good brewmaster I’ve ever seen” (because they had never invited one to a key) to “it seems hard to stay alive as brew…” (in response to me offering to tank a raid boss on my geared brewmaster). Raid tanking is the one area where brewmaster is “good”, but the overwhelmingly negative perception of the spec overshadows that for some players.
There’s a video up on YouTube right now from a large creator titled “Stress Testing EVERY Tank in 11.1! (Except Brewmaster)”. I hope someone on the class design team goes and reads the comments on that video for a sample of how the spec is regarded.
The buffs to Celestial Brew and Niuzao are good. Any attention at all is good at this point. It’s strange that other classes and specs get blue posts about design philosophy accompanying moderate tuning adjustments, because it feels like brewmaster is at best misunderstood and at worst completely ignored. We don’t expect the amount of attention warriors, paladins, or mages get – we’d be happy with the level of development time that the other two monk specs get.
So, please. Fix brewmaster. There are any number of ways to do it. I don’t care if it’s raw numbers, a rework (as long as the spec still feels fun), or whatever else the team comes up with. Give us group utility. Give us better defensives. Make Stagger work better in M+. Bring us up to the level of other tanks in terms of usefulness, damage intake, damage output, or whatever other metric you choose. But do something. It’s been years.
9 Likes
So many languages and you decided to speak the fact’s one.
I think that perception comes from 2 main reasons.
First that Brew has not been a meta tank or STRONG tank since BfA? xd (Tier S or HIgh tier A)
Second, As it is the most skilled tank, there’s a lot of brews who puke on themselves and that doesn’t give a good image either.
2 Likes
It’s not even about being the “most skilled tank”. What does a super skilled brewmaster bring to the table that other tanks don’t? Brewmaster gets the job done. The problem is if you have a choice between brewmaster and other tanks why bring a brewmaster? What do we bring to the table?
Why bring a brewmaster over a warrior?
Why bring a brewmaster over a druid?
Why bring a brewmaster over a paladin?
You get the point.
We need something that gives us purpose. At this point it’s not damage, it’s not speed (plenty of tanks can cover ground), it’s not unique buffs, it’s not utility.
We can take a big hit. Brewmaster is like a cockroach. We can survive a nuclear blast but easily squashed. I personally would like to move away from this claim to fame.
2 Likes
There’s a new video on YouTube called “Stress Tests V2 - EVERY Tank Against the First Pull of Operation: Floodgate w/ New Scaling.” The disparity between brewmaster and other tanks is ridiculous. Can we get a game designer who truly understands brewmaster to re-balance the spec?
solo surviving pulls like this isn’t a good indicator of tank balance or something you should measure off of as bdk does well in this scenario even though theyve been mid or bad for multiple seasons in a row. brew even on live would die to pulls like this but brew is actually quite good in the current season survival wise
5 Likes
Just throwing in my two cents.
For Niuzao to be worth point investments, some of it’s talents needs to be merged, and have Niuzao be a choise node, either a defensive or offensive talent. It’s clear that the current iteration is trying to do both but failing at both miserably.
It’s also need to have all it’s nodes moved up a tier and be linked from Elixir of Determination and allow it to fork into Gai Plins / Tranquil Spirit.
The current defensive problem with Niuzao is that he dies from stagger too fast in anything higher than mid tier content. He should prevent the % stagger damage instead of taking the damage and dieing in mere seconds.
With the amount of unavoidable haste in the next tier set, have Celestial Fortune also be affected by haste; so it’s crit + haste not crit alone. That way we don’t loose out on as much passive healing, it might not the be THE right step, but at least it’s a start to having haste be less than worthless.
Lastly, please for the love of the titans, make Weapons of Order be a self buff and not a debuff that takes 8 to 12 seconds to ramp. Yes it lasts the longest but it’s also the most unnecessarily over complicated tank offensive burst CD.
Or have my proposed iteration of WoO replace PtA.
2 Likes
Fellow Brew enjoyers, hello!
Just two ideas I had, I would love to see them make the talent that has Ox Stance proc at 40% instead of 60% baseline and then change the two talents below Ox Stance (or just add these talents elsewhere that are easier to take) that are our current tier set bonus in TWW Season1 and our tier set bonus from DF S3/4. I loved building up those huge Celestial Brews after doing enough dmg. It felt very rewarding. Blizz did well with walking back the prot war stuff so here’s to hoping!
I see this suggestion a lot. Even with all 4 points fully invested into Angry Dave, its not worth the GCD to summon him.
He’s not a great defensive cooldown – Its almost equivalent to hitting a Blackout Combo on your purifying brew.
He’s not a great offensive cooldown – In the testing he did less damage than a weapon enchant.
We need to stop suggesting they “merge” the talents and start suggesting that they rework it entirely into something thats actually useful, fun, unique, and compelling.
this, it’s just time for a rework
would rather have the 2 set than the 4 set tbh, the cb increase was just stagger prevention didn’t actually make CB bigger
If you kept on reading you’ll see that I specified that it should be a pure offensive or pure defensive choice node, followed by stating it fails to do both in it’s current iteration, hence logically and with deductive reasoning it should’ve been redesigned.
As much as I want / wish to have a functional redesign, the hard truth is we’re an after thought and design wise a whole expansion behind other tanks, they’re busy updating their favorite alt class animations and schedualing their favorite class for the next mid expansion rework.
Oh wait I guess I never actually read the tier set in DF lolol. I thought it was your fire damage added to your CB not just a stagger shield. I agree, 2 set would be super nice for more sustain