Feed back on outlaw

Get rid of RtB! I don’t wanna be a damn pirate! I wanna go toe to toe combat rogue! No one besides some pirates of the Caribbean dev thought this would be a good idea. #changeplease


Dice are used by more than just pirates…Hell, the only pirate like ability outside of PvP talents is maybe “Saber Slash” and the name of the crit buff you get from RtB.

It’s a solid concept that really doesn’t alter your damage much more than the RNG on SS and it adds a unique flavor and play style to the spec.

Is it perfect? No. But I would rather see them improve it than just go back to being worse versions of Fury.

Make loaded dice or Alacrity baseline, tweak Treasure and CD reduction and build upon a foundation that’s already significantly changed twice in two expansions. Outlaw is not in a bad place like Sub so I would rather they build on it than risk spending an entire expansion with no changes because they messed up and won’t address it until 10.0.

I see this quite often said when people speak about the outlaw spec, but why do so many people seem to hate the whole pirate theme? Personally I quite enjoy it and think it fits with rogue rather well.


If I may quote Jerry Seinfeld:

“I don’t wanna be a pirate!”

Seriously. How much seafaring are you guys doing? How much plundering? How much swashbuckling?

Because I’m just a dude who wears light armor and has stealth. I see nothing inherently piratey about the rogue class except the awkward pirate themed nonsense they’ve shoehorned onto combat rogues.

Get rid of bones. Give us a crit buff finisher a la slice and dice. We’re only ever fishing for crit buffs with bones anyway.

Fix SnD, alacrity, all our talents that don’t have meaningful choices. Even DS vs. Vigor. Once we stop having ace traits, DS is going to go back to being as popular as it was in season 1. Not at all.

Bring back bleeds too.

And I’d really like a more meaningful way to spec for pure single target raid fights that isn’t just swapping dancing steel out for blade rush.


It’s a quick fix take out rtb we have SnD. Let’s see what other spec makes sense for a pirate? Well surv hunter uses guns, can take control of a parrot as a pet, have a hook/spear. Combat spec was just fine for rogues. This was in my opinion a bad choice on class design.


i’ve been running my rogue as outlaw spec, and i have to agree RtB is my least fav part of it. im fine with a pirate theme, but i DONT like a core ability of the rot being RNG


Why do we need to have “themes” for specs at all? Just make specs variants on the core idea of the class. That’s it.

The problem with trying to force a theme, is that it limits the amount of abilities you can give to a class and results in ridiculous things like RtB. "Okay, outlaw is pirate themed. What do pirates do? They gamble. Here’s a GREAT IDEA for that… "


Combat made sense


Combat was my first. I do miss it.


That’s one of the big things announced about Shadowlands, class identity over spec.
I personally enjoy rtb. It has times when you get a bad roll but then it always feels like when I really need a good proc, I get 5 buffs flashing across my screen. Managing it is the usual pain in the butt for ppl but now there are multiple addons to really help with that.

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And that’s all good and fine. But there is no viable out for the people who do hate it. If SnD was buffed on par with RTB than outlaw could be descent like at the end of legion.


There are some fun times with RtB, but I think almost all of us would infinitely prefer a good, solid single buff that we have to keep up, don’t need to refresh, and that doesn’t rely on RNG. Or just buff our baseline abilities up to where they’d be with active buffs, and replace the “need to keep a buff up” idea with a cool ability or two.


I agree with the OP, RtB needs to be removed.

I hated the animation and RNG buffs the moment I used the ability and never looked back.

I may be losing out on dps, but I’m having more fun using SnD. They need to revert it back to combat.

One thing I do like about the Outlaw spec is that I can use two swords/axes/maces.

Bout the only thing I like about Outlaw.


Well Survival Hunters don’t use guns anymore, though, and it seems that isn’t changing for Shadowlands. Apparently, Rogues in Classic could equip guns as well as bow and crossbows, so Pistol Shot and Between the Eyes don’t really clash that much with older design philosophies for Rogues IMO.

I think there should be customization for the Rogue ranged attack abilities, though, like glyphs or just making Poisoned Knife, Pistol Shot, and Shuriken Toss baseline where you can choose whichever one you want to use in your ability bars.

There’s plenty of players who like the pistol, and plenty of players who hate the pistol. I think having options is a good idea, and it would make the Rogue class identity a bit more flexible. Rogue class identities right now are kind of locked down and inflexible.

I’ve been playing Combat Rogue in Classic WoW and I can say that the rotation does get boring, especially on long boss fights and RtB really does make things interesting in our rotation. I came back to retail WoW with a new appreciation for RtB (although I miss poisons and really can’t wait for Shadowlands bringing them back).

Having said that, I think they really NEED to make the Slice and Dice talent a worthwhile replacement for people that don’t like RtB.


The RNG from bones is really getting to me during raid fights. Like, it typically doesn’t bother me in M+, because it evens out over the course of a run, but for a pure single target boss fight?

Case in point. I just upped my parses on a couple of fights by over 20% in one raid night. Not because I got better gear, or got better at the game, or changed my rotation, or anything, but because I finally got a 5 roll on those fights at a good time to have one. I’m starting to wonder if that’s how all the amazing outlaw parses occur. People getting one, or even two 5 rolls when it matters.

The RNG has got to go for single target raid fights. It’s beyond ridiculous trying to do progression and having your DPS be by far the most variable of everyone’s. People that don’t understand outlaw think you’re bad, or playing inconsistently, and don’t have a finer understanding of what it’s like to roll 5-6 energy buffs in a row during adrenaline rush.

But hey, as I’ve been arguing, we need more viable alternatives in our talent choices. I see no reason why we can’t keep bones for folks that enjoy it and give the few of us that are still trying to raid as outlaw a more consistent and solid single target alternative.


If you run Loaded Dice for raiding, it’s not too bad with the RNG factor of RtB. You also need to run with the essence vision of perfection as one of your minors and you’ll see an overall improvement.

I’ve tried it before. I suggested it myself on an older thread. It’s not too bad. Works a bit better with Vision major, IMO, as the random and frequent AR procs will trigger loaded dice, and your brigand’s blitzes. Getting two brigands blitzes and a loaded dice proc several times a minute definitely evens out the lack of alacrity more than just having AR every 2.4 minutes, and cuts down on the need to reroll tremendously.

I still think we need a better fix to the Loaded Dice/Alacrity/SnD tier. Among others. Viable and competitive choices in talent selection is something I enjoy very much as a way to eek out uniqueness in an overpopulated class.

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I think it’s a nice twist on the rogue class, i only play rogue and I think it’s cool and fun.


I like RtB, it’s pretty fun to me. The pirate theme makes a lot of sense too.