Camaraderie based completely on having other players as your enemy is kind of a tradeoff, though, because it also creates a lot of animosity.
I see what you’re saying, there are benefits, but I don’t think they’re worth the problems they bring.
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You’ve ignored the bulk of my post or its point. Why are Orc’s incapable of apologies? Why is the 1st and 2nd War not actually grappled with at all?
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I don’t know that they are. I don’t know what an apology would accomplish.
Because it was grappled with in Warcraft 3. It’s been grappled with ever since by living in a hellhole instead of taking someone else’s land and living there instead.
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My core point is that from a story perspective, the Horde seems to exist as an entity to protect Orcs from the consequences or any sort of retribution for their actions; especially the First and Second Wars. And while Orcs primarily continue to instigate conflict, its little Empire is basically a shield the Orcs from even admitting responsibility.
No we didn’t. And the Orcs didn’t live in a Hellhole, they immediately expanded into the Barrens, made war over wood in Ashenvale, and when Garrosh promised them global conquest they were down for expansion and conquest. So that is utterly BS and self serving to boot since its not really making amends with the people wronged, AND its not even some ascetic exile to suffer in the desert because the Horde immediately started expanding and conquering new territory and hasn’t ceased making war on say Humans and Dwarves and such since.
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Wrong, as per Chronicles the only reason the draenei were followed was because the Genedar crash landed on Draenor. That whole crash landing thing was obviously an accident/something uncontrollable due to a Naaru being a void Naaru.
Maybe because the orcs first instinct was to ATTACK AND ENSLAVE them? Maybe because the Orges also tried to invade them?
It doesn’t though. Your entire premise is flawed. We’ve had the onus of Garrosh’s bullcrappery on our shoulders forever, AND THE HORDE PLAYERBASE WAS SET AGAINST GARROSH FROM THE START.
You might look up the definition of barren.
You’re wrong all the same. They live in Durotar.
Boo hoo. Nelves made war over genetics being present in Ashenvale.
Also, again, they didn’t kill the nelves and move into Ashenvale.
Npcs were. Like I said, the player has not been pro Garrosh since the beginning of Cataclysm at the absolute latest. I’ve literally never been pro garrosh. He’s been an evil piece of work since TBC where he was willing to let Broken raiders kill his clan because “my daddy evil, abloobloo.” The story has only put Garrosh in a positive light ONE SINGLE TIME.
Basically your entire outlook is flawed.
Man, how many wars has an entity called “The Horde” been the aggressor, committed numerous atrocities and still somehow, someway, is never responsible for any of them. We’ve got the 1st and 2nd War that somehow isn’t anyone’s fault, Everything Garrosh did, NOPE Still not responsible, 4th War? Nope all Sylvie they just sorta accidentally fell into it… Again.
So again, they didn’t stay in the deserts to atone for anything.
A group of people found an outwardly hostile race in their territory that is choked full of demon blood and loves to take stuff and decided to drive them out. And given the Orcs never left and continued to invade, yeah I ain’t buying it. But amazing, Orcs can intrude somewhere, continue to invade long after they realized they weren’t welcome and also take stuff and STILL not be in the wrong.
I’m talking about Orcs in a general sense, not the players.
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False. The orcs didn’t find the nelves at all. There was no hostility until the nelves initiated it because “no race besides night elves can be in Ashenvale.”
False. The orcs were off demon blood. That’s why Mannoroth had to resupply them.
Nelves cut off lumber trade.
So, you see here’s the thing. You talk about how the orcs are always excused while always, every time, excusing every cardinal sin (and the draenei are quite possibly the most sociopathic race in the entire game) that other factions or races incur, choosing instead of crap on the orcs.
I’m not saying the orcs are sinless. I’m saying that they’re often forced into crappy positions. If the nelves had unveiled themselves and asked Grom to leave because “this is our land” and Grom refused? You’d be right. But they didn’t.
They pretended to be ghosts and killed orcs because they were another race.
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Only for Orcs is wandering onto someone’s territory and when being aggressively told to leave, decide to stay, continue invading and take stuff that wasn’t theirs and claim to be the victim. Also kinda negates the “We are leaving in austere lands to atone for our sins.” when they are out looting and pillaging.
What about that austere penance nonsense from before? So now they gotta loot and take stuff to make their desert penance more comfy?
Care to name ANYTHING Orcs are responsible for ever?
So the Orcs just weren’t AWARE this entire time it wasn’t theirs. Man, must be why they marched on Teldrassil, they just didn’t know because Orcs have zero common sense or ask any questions.
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They didn’t know anyone was there. I literally just pointed that out. If rampant dishonesty is your modus operandi, I’m not going to argue with you any further.
Here. Rewatch the campaign. You’ve forgotten it.
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I find it kinda hard to believe that in the span of like multiple years all the way to their march on Teldrassil the Orcs were too dumb to realize anyone lived there. Oh well, see Its all a big misunderstanding, in 10 years they just never REALIZED someone lived there… Orcs are magic, They are never responsible for ANYTHING.
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good old thrall… i miss this thrall…i miss this …"Warcraft"time,
The world seemed bigger, it was wider, there were myths, war, victory and downfall, finally, there was something to tell.
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Yeah I agree that the world was more interesting back in the day than it is now. Feels like we’ve traveled every beaten path.
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Damn someone call a ambulance for dread
Pictavii: performs a strawman fallacy.
Katiera: utterly incapable of understanding what that is.
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Back to the original point…
I can agree with the premise but as so many have pointed out the writers have destroyed any semblance of hope for that story. I still want it around but perhaps as a far more background story than anything. There are plenty of places still to have that faction conflict to where it matters to the local zone, or region, but doesn’t really play into the overall narrative. Stranglethorn could easily be a future hotbed for faction conflict between the the Darkspear and Zandalari getting the Gurubashi to hop on with the Horde with the Alliance not liking that idea at all. There is legitimate story there for conflict. Something like BFA though, or Cata into MoP, I don’t want to see for a very long time until blizzard and prove to us that they can write a compelling faction narrative.
Strawman? Dude, you responded to one sentence of my first post and went on a wild tangent. Pot, I’ll introduce you to my good friend Kettle.
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Time period being discussed: Orcs arriving in Ashenvale.
Treng states: The orcs didn’t know night elves were there.
Pictavii replies:
I think for a faction war to have weight or be good, it has to have like real consequences and WE the players in it have to have some reasonable inability to predict the end.
The problem for Faction War, is that its an endless stalemate. We go into the story knowing exactly how it will end, that nothing meaningful will be resolved, no satisfying ending will come about. No faction can truly be the aggressor thus you know Garrosh and Sylvie and the regularly occurring Siege of Orgrimmar. No faction can itself be at fault because the players feel bad about being bad guys. Also no faction can pay a real price in the end or suffer real defeat.
We know at the end of it, nothing will change hands, there will be an armistice or something. Some rogue actor was to blame the whole time, and really it was all 4d underwater backgammon by an Old God, or Void Lords, or “THE JAILER” anyway.
This is why Faction War actually sucks conceptually. Nothing comes of it, the “aggressor faction” COUGH COUGH The Horde COUGH were just following Orders, the Alliance was just doing the righteous thing and has agreed to forgive and that rogue actor, we gotta punish them. Rinse and repeat.
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That is the time you decided to discuss, I’m pointing out that Orcs continued attacking long after they were made aware that wasn’t theirs. Unless Orcs all have collective brain damage and no ability to recall anything; which would explain why they are unaware of any history of themselves prior to the Internment Camps.
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