@ everyone saying to bake gargoyle into apoc

See, I remember how Dark Arbiter worked in Legion and to be frankly honest. It kinda sucked that our main ST DPS revolved around that. Not only that, I think it was hardly an upgrade. It was initially, what, 15 seconds but a bonus if you invest RP into it? Later it got damage nerfed but the duration increased to 20 seconds.

With a talent that has a drawback with a cut duration but with reduced cooldown, kinda makes you wonder if it really was worth a talent slot don’t you think?

And keep in mind, Gary once was an Unholy Baseline. He was a pretty solid ability and making it have a DA passive was, i admit, not really necessary.

I’ll be really happy if I get to play with Gary again. Without the RP bonus. 3 minute cooldown with 30 second duration. Scales with Mastery. Make it simple. Done. :slight_smile:

i’ll have to keep these in mind, however they dont exactly fill the niche that gargoyle does. a healer will move back from formation to drink, i can use gargoyle then to keep them in combat for the next 30 seconds with no more additional input from me.

sending my pet or doing any target swapping pet commands breaks a 3 target split(not the easiest thing to get working in the first place)

Not to mention Gary also applies pressure, correct?

I always find Unholy as the go to Pressure Class to play with along with Affliction Warlock or Shadow Priest.

What does that have to do with what I was saying ? Ghostwolf and self rez have nothing to do with Gargoyle, what ?

And you’d have to also remove Shaman’s Feral Spirit from the GCD since it’s really the same as Gargoyle in terms of ability design.

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but they are not the same in terms of classes. shaman and dk are not equal opposites, they are nothing alike. just because a spell summons a pet for 30 seconds does not mean both classes need them to be equal. they both have access to some of the same pvp plays because of the nature of that type of spell, but a GCD change wouldn’t make that big of a difference.

another option, deathgrip has a half gcd, that could also be used on other spells.

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That’s not how “taking things off the GCD” works. It’s based on ability design.

Doesn’t matter. If a type of ability gets taken off the GCD, it’s the whole type, not just one of them randomnly.

If temporary pet summons get taken off the GCD for Unholy, they get taken off the GCD for everyone else.

Yes, according to Blizzard, they do. Because Shamans will point to Unholy DKs as an example and say “Us too” and Blizzard will have no choice but agree.

I suggest going through this thread, which demonstrates how this works :

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/shadowlands-update-some-spells-no-longer-on-gcd/630189

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no, its based on need. if unholy needs abilities off the GCD for valid reasons and shamans do not, then there is no issue with taking a dk spell off the GCD.

GCD isn’t even consistent between specs let alone classes.

no, you dont design classes based on what other classes have, in fact you design them based on what other classes dont have. dont like playing with lots of GCDs on unholy? play DH, dont liek the GCD cost of a spell on shaman? play unholy.

no, its blizzes choice actually, and they quite often say no to player demands.

the obligation the devs have is to make each spec the best it can possible be within their own niche, not to make them all have a fair and equal toolkit.

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I don’t think you’ve ever read a Blizzard dev blog if you really think that.

Shamans don’t want their cooldowns on the GCD, same as you. Read the thread I linked. Many posts from people “Y ability is like X, take it off the GCD too!”. Many many posts like that, and guess what, Kaivax grew the list over 3 days, based on those posts. Because those people had a point.

I mean, like I said, go read the thread I linked. Yes, that’s how Blizzard designs things. They keep things consistent.

Go. Read. The. Thread. I. Linked.

I don’t know why you’re arguing here, the thread is there proving you wrong.

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Here, just one example :

Player sees his CDs missing from the list, they are the same type, asks for it, Blizzard adds them.

That’s how it works. So if Gargoyle comes off the GCD, so does Feral Spirit and other pet summons. If Dark Transformation comes off the GCD, so does Beastial Wrath and other pet empowerments.

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i dont think attacking me makes you look good. but here, let me elablorate:

good for them, but what is their justification? and you can’t say UHDK got it, that doesn’t work in 3rd grade what makes you think it works for adults?

if shaman can show they have a reasonable case for too many abilities on the GCD, then sure, whatever needs to be removed to resolve their issues should.

but it should be handled on teh micro level. you dont go “all spell that function like X will be identical among all specs” here’s why:

unholy is supposed to be a GCD slog. its how the spec is played, you fill every GCD with something to do, and good players fill the GCD with the right spells, bad players do not.

the fun of unholy is playing it well, we want it janky and cumbersome to play because that is what makes the payoff for playing it right all that much better. and this isn’t exclusive to wow, i’ll give you a perfect example: Shun Di from Virtua Figher 4. when i first got into VF4 i hated that character, you hit your buttons and all that happens is he falls over and basically lets his opponent hit him. my initial impression was he was useless, and i never played him. it wasn’t until i got my butt thoroughly kicked by a full time VF4 player using that character that i understood the problem wasnt the character, but my understanding of it.

right now what is in that thread you linked is a whole lot of people asking for wow’s Shun Di to be replaced with Eddy Gordo, they want to go from a spec that needs finese, timing, and proper execution to one that is basically a autowin button masher.

i realize this argument gets used a lot by players, but at the same time, as soon as the DT change was announced you had threads on every social media site with Dks QQing. and on the forums the names i saw in the against were for the most part the top dks(not the ones who think they are good, the actual top ones)

one of the things the Anti-GCD croud has failed to remember is that unholy wasn’t hit hard by the all-the-spells-on-GCD change. we barely lost anything, Dgrip i think. DT has always been on the GCD, so has gargoyle.

shaman and other classes may have right to want their GCDs back, but for unholy its asking for more than we had before.

to an extent thing slike CD length, but mainly for raid encounter design so everyone has a defensive ready for the boss’s nuke. they dont make classes equal otherwise we would have a pony.

the thing with dark transformation is that the reason given for it being on the GCD was that players would just macro it into their rotation and never think about it again. the reason everyone wants it off is varied. raiders want to macro it, but M+ and pvpers dont want it autofireing but instead want instant access to it. M+ in order to break into AoE smoother, and pvpers to get access to our interrupt.

since the devs have shown they may be okay with players macroing it(by macroing it themselves with their easybake oven) then there really isn’t a issue with removing DT from the GCD.

for new players, this wont do much, but they will feel like a sly fox when they find the macros for it and outdps players without it. and then after they get bored with that and get into managing their pet energy, DT is still there waiting for them to now unmacro it and graduate to he next level of manual control unholy.

this is where players get their power growth, from exploring the depths of their class, not by equipping more ilvl.

I’m not attacking you. I gave you proof of how Blizzard approaches this, you keep ignoring it and thinking you can get some special off GCD treatment.

Until you go read proof, I’m not going to engage with you, obviously, you don’t actually want to understand, you just want to scream at the clouds to get your specific thing implemented, consquences be damned.

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do you think i dont read every thread about DK on this forum?

The thread I linked you earlier, not about DKs per se, not on this forum.

I bothered to link you a thread, bothered to quote you posts proving my point, and you skipped over it all because it proved my point, and disproved your own. Until you actually engage in good faith, we’re really done.

you skipped over mine first. also, i’m not throwing ultimatums in your face.

i read the original thread about GCD xchanges when it was announced. but i also understand people. a person is smart, people are dumb. when you give people an inch, they ask for a mile, but individually you can sit them down and they can explain why only an inch is sufficient and that they dont need a mile.

any change the devs make for any class will have someone saying"thats not fair, i want that too"

even im guilty of that, paladins got a pony, dks did not, and im salty about it. but here’s the thing, i’ve been asking for a pony since 3.3.3 and so far blizz has said no. so that means they are perfectly capable adults that can handle childish demands.

Tome of Horn of Winter please

@Inemia I too think its utter bullsh!t the class that walked around on the filthy ground in Warcraft 3 gets a summonable horse in combat as a speed boost while the hero class that literally rode around on a mount gets “Death Jog”.

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Oh man I feel alone here. I loved Dark Arbiter in Legion, especially with the legendaries and other supports that made it hit like a truck. I understand why others would not like it though. I wish our talents actually gave us a choice for the type of Unholy game-play we want to play. That said, it is lame gargoyle is a talent again.

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we aren’t allowed to have all our class abilities baseline in wow anymore, get with the times mann

You never could. Classic is right there to prove it.

you realize you are doing the very thing in my thread that is the reason blizz wont let me post in the beta thread?

worst part is DK isn’t even your main.

Uh ? Me being in your thread is why Blizzard won’t give you Beta ?

What ? What are you even accusing me of.

Switching for SL to DK.