id just stop playing with PUGs entirely.
You think finding a tank is hard now…
That is the underlying premise, yes.
In fact, that has ALWAYS been the point that I’ve been trying to get across; in this topic and many others. However, it seems everyone makes the assumption that it’s due to being barred from progress; if it were simply that, I wouldn’t be anywhere near as prolific on this subject.
So give a shot at re-reading my posts in this thread (and other threads if you want to take a look) in that context, and my perspective should make more sense.
/sigh…and we wonder why people are dreaming of solo content.
There is extremes on both sides of this fence and they are both yelling so loud that no one can even hear the poor reasonable people who just want to fine tune the details to make it easier on both parties.
If I have to hear another lecture about “what anti raider IO people really want” I’m gonna 
!
Yea this makes 0 sense.
So what if I just freshly boosted my hunter? I was 1800+ arena rating in wotlk that should be good enough to bring me on a +10 key.
Wait… what do you mean that’s not how stats work? I’m a good person dammit!!!
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I’ve read all your posts, and I disagree with the premise behind all of them in this thread. I used to be in your shoes, and have found so many awesome people who play this game of all skill levels that want to learn and have fun. Have you tried joining a guild? Looking on the WoW discord for people to play with? Post on the LFG thread on Reddit? Make your own groups and add people to your friends list who you like? I can go on and on.
Saying this community sucks because of RIO is a load of doodoo. I have had nothing but good success finding like-minded people who are nice and want to learn and improve as a guild/team. And if the people end up being rude, I simply move on and look for more people to play with. You are making this so much more convoluted and complicated than it actually is.
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A lot of people who rage about rio would cease having issues if they stopped doing m+. I know it solved my problem. Now I couldn’t care less about rio.
Then prove it by doing some content.
Maybe you are the best person to ever play maybe you are not. Frankly I don’t care either way. I will not take the chance that you might be terrible without any evidence of your competence and you are not entitled to make me take you. If I’m making a group I can make it using whatever criteria I like and I am within my rights to do so. It’s not “toxic” or “gatekeeping” if I happen to not choose you.
If I whispered you mean things then that is against tos and reprehensible behavior but that’s not what this is about.
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Pretty much.
When I make my raid pugs getting the first 8ish people takes forever, then once people see a group with a fair amount of people it’s like the flood gates open and I’ll get 2-5 applicant every 30 seconds.
So if you want to get into a raid on the lower gear side, apply for groups that have 1-3 people in them.
Once it’s nearly full you are competing against multiple 470+ applicants.
you have to start from somewhere. If you aren’t getting into a +5 group it’s not because of RIO. If you aren’t getting into a guild doing only heroic, it’s not because of prior experience alone. And if it is, then keep looking.
I had a friend recently come back about a month ago and the last time he raided was wrath I believe. The last he had played the game was in MoP. He found a random guild in trade and started doing heroic with them. Last week they got their first mythic boss down. He had basically 0 experience to show for.
So what he do? He ran (as a warlock mind you) every key and group he could get into. It paid off. He didn’t get in a lot of them, but just kept working at it.
That’s just the nature of the game.
well, since the thread is centered around M+ discussion, I’m just saying that people leaving keys is very central to why people are so… picky. If keys were designed to not downgrade the second someone left, people might be more willing to take a risk on players. As is, the person hosting the key is the one with the most to lose, and can often be the person with the least to gain as well. If i’m hosting a key that I already have completed, I’m ONLY doing it to push to the next level. The people joining on the other hand may actually need the key to upgrade their score. If we fail, I not only lose out on the +1 and my time lost, but now I need to do potentially 2 keys just to get back in the range that’s important to me.
Welp, again the thread is about M+, so that’s how I’m building my responses.
It’s not about all higher level content though. No one is going through this process if they progress with a guild. I have been in guilds that started in normal and finished with full mythic clears. It takes time, some people get sat. some get kicked. if you’re willing to start at the bottom, the path is there for growth.
no troll, but the feeling is mutual on the other end. Nothing like reading ANOTHER thread about how bad RIO is for the game when the person posting puts in the bare minimum effort for success.
I do honestly take offense to this.
This community is unique. It’s about the same as any other game I have played, maybe even a bit more pleasant to be honest.
The tough part here is that players like yourself didn’t have to play with other people in the same way to progress. That isn’t a shot at you. Just that, in the past, the good gear is mostly from raiding. Now, some of the best gear is from M+, which can be pugged.
If we treated M+ like we did raiding, we would be building groups like we did in the past and progressing with people we met from trade. Eventually we could push higher. That is still a reality. You can still do that. That said, you can also just put it using the tools available.
The community is what it is. It’s mostly the same people that have been playing for the past 5, 10, 15 years… Not much as changed in my mind. Just the content and the requirements.
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Even in Vanilla…we inspected people. It was hideous. Raider IO is so much better and so much less gross.
It’s just an excuse on his part. Out of all of the popular games I have played (which is most of them), this one is without a doubt the most pleasant and friendly. If someone thinks this community is bad, they should try League of Legends, Overwatch, CSGO, and VALORANT.
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Yes. I played Unreal Tournament and CS for years and both were far more aggressive. So much that I even had someone show up at my dorm room looking for me once because they thought I was cheating. Fun times.
League is one of the few games I did actually quit because of how bad it was. The only time I would play it was with friends and the game was so incredibly bad the lower brackets. It was impossible to ask for help, so I moved on.
Wow is a huge mix of people. If you don’t like one aspect of the game, there is likely a community out there for you. My only gripe is the lack of servers being unique now. I think it’s a tad harder to find those people now because the servers and the communities that were built have been largely lost.
I miss my old small pop realms… but that’s another topic.
if anything, they need to change the gearing system for mythics. for example, a player has completed enough plus 8’s to the point that running anymore is pointless as far as gear is concerned. so their key level for an upgrade is an 11. people that have only ran 8’s can’t run 11’s. that needs changed, period. this is why everyone wants to do the keys they want to do instead of grinding up their io bit by bit. no one wants to grind 8’s, then 9’s, then 10’s for the same gear lvl reward at the end of the run.
edit: this might read differently than i wanted. the gear system needs to change. i don’t mean people who have ran 8’s should be able to to 11’s by changing the difficulty or anything. Do an 8, get a 455. Do a 9, get 460. Do a 10, get 465.
Witcher 3 exists and soon cyberpunk 2077. You should not get raid gear for solo content in an mmo I’m sorry you just shouldn’t.
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It’s all relative.
WoW has been one of the most unpleasant communities I’ve had the misfortune to be apart of. Though to be fair, I intentionally avoid some of the more “infamous” online communities; they would undoubtedly be even worse.
Though before anyone throws out the “special snowflake” slur, that has little to do with it. More like barely contained violent rage. I don’t need an aneurysm, as much as this game (or any others) seem intent on driving me towards it.
Just to quickly comment, I actually don’t care much about progression in general. My viewpoint on gear is strictly utilitarian; it’s there to help me get stuff “done”, but I get no pleasure out of upgrades and have no real interest in pursuing it for its own sake. The only aspect in gear that I care about is transmog.
… the game’s design (and the community) assuming that is what I want is more than a little annoying. Especially since it has a tendency to either bar me from doing my own thing or try to constantly coerce me into doing content I despise for a reason I don’t care for.
And to top it off, the alternative modes of play I used to indulge in have been systematically removed… which is something I’ll save for another time.
Again, it’s all relative.
Those communities are known to be worse, no argument here.
That doesn’t necessarily mean WoW is “good”.
But if you want to compare communities, there’s Final Fantasy XIV. The community actually is nicer over there, feeling a lot like how WoW used to in the earlier days (at least outside the hardcore crowd). Maybe a little weird and quirky, but definitely nicer.
Perhaps people don’t realize how bad WoW is until they’ve seen the difference?
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Did I say that’s what I wanted? NO I did not…don’t put idea’s into my head that are not there…that’s the JOB of my VOID VOICES! The point of that post flew by your head… and I’m in no mood to pull over and walk you thru it.
There’s plenty of solo content it just doesn’t give raid level gear and at the gear level you get from it it’s still decently challenging for most players.
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What in the world are you answering and HOW pray tell does it involve me? You know what…NM your right…just leave me be.
It’s a reaction to all of the ‘get rid of LFR’ threads that were popping up everywhere for a while.