Alliance lost because they didn’t pvp, I was there for the change and I remember it vividly.
Wrong. Time it
Yes to pushing the cave back. No to reinforcements.
Pushing the cave back but bringing back 1.5’s mobs and obstacles would be ideal, IMO.
1.5’s mobs and obstacles would actually be enough. I honestly don’t think they have the code base to know what all of those were though 
And that said, I don’t think even this brings the best alliance pvpers back to the BG. The H/Hr isn’t good enough compared to what they can get in premades doing AB/WSG.
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No they lost because of the massive horde map advantage that was made even worse because of reinforcements.
Horde has the same map advantage in classic but without reinforcements all they can do is force alliance into a stalemate north of SH GY not a guaranteed win. Your strat does nothing to change that.
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I did, that’s why I said it. Your mistake was probably assuming the horde would go to the back side of SF, when it’s actually closer to go to the front.
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And this “map advantage” does nothing to counter the fact that if the alliance outright wins the team fight at SHGY (like they should) and then continues to maintain SHGY (like they should), the horde waves become fractured allowing you to eventually push to IBGY and win.
Straight up, alliance doesn’t win that team fight outright. You even try to zerg that team fight by doing a numbers game rather than just flat killing a boatload of horde while losing few of your own.
In the premade era, in games where alliance decided to actually crush the horde, that’s exactly what happened. They crushed us at SHGY taking few losses and moving forward as a group.
The issue, again, is that strategy doesn’t work when the alliance side has fewer of their good players carrying scrubs. Horde has its best players there carrying its scrubs. Alliance’s best players are in AB/WSG.
That’s the real “horde advantage.” it is a skill gap that is specific to AV and created by a queue system with incentives for Alliance to play AB/WSG. All this whining about the cave / IBGY choke point won’t bring your best players back. The H/Hr isn’t high enough and those changes won’t change that fact.
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Right and that just pushes the fight to IB GY, which is harder to take than SH GY.
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Keep ignoring the rest of the post because the facts don’t fit your self-pitying narrative. Or are you going to sit here and pretend that the skill level is actually the same? Because that’s hot garbage.
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The skill level is the same, alliance do just fine in WSG and AB which are pretty much mirrored.
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Which shows you didn’t read my post or willfully ignored it. I didn’t say the skill wasn’t the same. I said the skill in AV isn’t the same. I outlined reasons why it isn’t the same. Care to respond to my actual post or are you going to keep posting this meaningless drivel that addresses nothing?
Straight up. Horde’s best players are in AV. Alliance’s best players are in AB/WSG. You tell me how that translates to “the skill in AV is the same” because it flat out doesn’t.
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Give it up, when it comes to AV most allies have the victim mentally and perform a self fulfilling prophecy by giving up before the game even starts.
But the skill is the same, when two teams of equal skill get matched up but the map vastly favors one side that side wins most of the time. Which is exactly what we’re seeing in AV, horde wins most of the time because of the map.
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They aren’t the same. That’s my entire point. Alliance’s most skilled players are queuing up for AB/WSG. Horde’s most skilled players are queuing up for AV. So, when we go into a team fight, Horde has at least 10 players (usually more) who are among our best pvpers. Alliance has what…maybe 1? That BG is all about team fights and if you can’t win them with few casualties, you won’t win the BG.
This entire notion that the Horde’s best are queuing for AV, but they have the same level of skill as the Alliance’s pug cast offs is absolutely ridiculous.
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Well they are the same, there’s no reason to think that horde are somehow just more skilled than alliance in AV when alliance do just fine in WSG/AB.
And it’s also irrelevant to the point that the map is imbalanced.
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From my experience that isn’t the case. It’s not uncommon for alliance to outkill the horde and still have absolutely no chance of winning. I don’t think you’re best players are the ones getting farmed in AV. It’s the map.
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Apparently you struggle with reading comprehension. Overall, the level of skill is roughly even. In AB/WSG, I would argue that the level of skill on the Alliance side is probably higher due to the higher concentration of your skilled players queuing up for those BGs. Since the vast majority of your skilled players aren’t queuing up for AV, that leaves a lower skill population in that BG for the Alliance side. That means that in any given AV, the Alliance side is likely to only have 1-5 of their better players in that AV to help carry the lower level players in team fights.
By contrast.
Horde’s best players still queue up for AV because on an H/Hr basis, it is still better than running teams through AB/WSG. As a result the concentration of skilled players horde side is more scattered between the 3 BGs. This means that on any given AV, Horde is likely to have 10+ members of that BG that are some of Horde’s best players that will help carry the rest of the BG.
Do that math. 10 (or more) top quality players in a team fight with a bunch of support vs 1-5 top quality players in a team fight with a bunch of support. That 5+ skilled player difference IS the difference. Alliance loses a team fight at SHGY because of that difference.
The skill is not the same in AV. It flat out isn’t due to the distribution of the Alliance’s skilled players. It has nothing to do with whether the overall skill between the two factions is similar. It has everything to do with whether there are enough of the skilled players on one side to counter the skilled players on the other side. In AV, Horde queues more skilled players (sometimes significantly more).
But hey, it is definitely a map issue.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that anyone who isn’t lying to themselves about the game knows moving the cave back will make the game more competitive.
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It isn’t about out killing. It is about casualties in team fights. It always has been. Anytime Alliance actually stomps the horde at SHGY the game goes south for the Horde fast. Anytime it is a grindy fight at SHGY and alliance are only holding it because they have the GY and can zerg reinforcements, Horde eventually overruns it.
Straight up, if more of Alliance’s top players queued into AV, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
There is no reason for them to do so however, due to better H/Hr in the other BGs.
Will it though? The first fight happens at Iceblood then, the Hordes strongest choke point instead of near SHGY…an Alliance favored position.
Moving the Horde cave back sounds like it might do something, but honestly…i don’t think it will do much.