Essences Feedback - Multiple Role Essences

(Sefirosuwar) #24

Visions of Perfection -

The call darkglare that it procs is extremely underwhelming for this spec
By design darkglare is meant to be a big cd increasing dot lengths by significant amounts when timed with a 5 stack of UA for large Deathbolt hits.
A randomly proc’d darkglare that only increases active dots by 2 secs - that can come out while Deathbolt is on cd or while you have only 1 UA on a target.
I’s something that is counter to how it works and honestly feels really bad.

I think it might be better to adjust how this works for AFF - Instead of random summoning a Dark Glare.
Give us a DG action button that random procs a charge.
Allowing us to build dots up (UA stacking the thing we all hate, that you wont get ride of). Allow it “OFF GCD”

Also Increase the dot timer length to 4 sec. half of what the original is.

This would make it so that the essence is actually functional for how the
DG ability is designed to work.
And still allows the proc rates to be random and at the same amount that they were set for before.
just gives player agency and control back to a CD that is designed for player control.

(Acurai) #25

Vision of Perfection for WW not only feels very underwhelming, but with all the problems surrounding Storm, Earth, and Fire the random proc on the essence poses potentially massive DPS losses.

One example being that if you’re currently channeling Fists of Fury and it procs, you suddenly end up doing 55% less damage with that cast of FoF because the proc’d clones are not channeling the ability.
Spinning Crane Kick is yet another example in which this essence procing at an inconvenient moment can result in as much as 55% loss of damage on a cast.

This on top of the fact that SEF as a randomly procing cooldown feels incredibly underwhelming makes the essence more of a hindrance than an enjoyable gameplay feature.

Having an essence that gives you nightmares because it can be as detrimental as a 55% damage loss (on your hardest hitting ability) honestly doesn’t feel great. Which can be as high as close to an 80-90% loss on those abilities if you cancel the channels to make use of SEF. In the case where you just eat the 55% loss and finish the channel, SEF isn’t doing anything but auto attacking, effectively being a worthless proc (For FoF mostly, as the channel lasts for most of the duration of the random SEF proc).

It should either be another cooldown (say xuen, who is just as underwhelming a cooldown but at least doesn’t potentially nuke your damage in half [55%]), or redesigned to just reduce the CD of SEF by some flat amount when it procs.

Even having the essence be an on-use effect like many of the other ones would help alleviate this.

Legitimately pretty much anything (ToD depending on how it works would also be pretty bad too) is potentially better than SEF as a cooldown provided by this essence… SEF is only bearable as a cooldown when we have control over it, when you introduce it as a random proc it just has more problems than uses.

TLDR: SEF by design has problems that can result in a 55%+ loss of damage, we can avoid these situations as much as possible because we have control over when we use it. But an essence randomly procing the ability removes that control, and what we’re left with is a hindrance that can nerf our damage by 55%. I sometimes wonder when SEF will get a redesign.

(Llarold) #26

Excellent point.

(Nimox) #27

Hi Aestrasz,
These issues with Memory of Lucid Dreams’ minor effect should be resolved in the next PTR build for Protection Paladin. Thanks for the bug report!

(Nimox) #28

Hi Llarold,

The next PTR build will have a change for both Brewmaster Monks and Guardian Druids with the Major power on Vision of Perfection.

Brewmaster Monks have had the Major effect changed to activate Invoke Niuzao, the Black Ox, when it procs. It will summon it for 25/35% (rank1/rank2) of the talent’s duration.

Guardian Druids have had the Major effect changed to activate Incarnation: Guardian of Ursoc for 25/35% of the talent’s duration when it procs.

The Minor/passive effect is unchanged for both specs, it will still provide cooldown reduction to Fortifying Brew or Survival Instincts.

This should help the Essence feel a bit more noticeable and meaningful when it activates. Try it out in the next PTR build.


The moonkin/feral conflict and strife talents need to be altered. Locking an essence into a raid buff is not fun. Thanks.

(Naros) #30

Will this require the player to actually spec into that talent or can we spec into a separate talent in that row but still gain that essence benefit when it procs?

(Nimox) #31

It will work regardless of you having the talent selected.

(Llarold) #33

That’s a significant improvement. I’m surprised to see talents get used, but that’s the only way to get around Monk & Druid having zero baseline offensive cooldowns. Even if they’re not on par with the Protection tank options, there is at least a basis for apples-to-apples comparison.

Will Blood DK’s get Dancing Rune Weapon in lieu of Vampiric Blood?

Edit: I think it’s worth noting that there’s some consensus among DK’s that Vampiric Blood, despite not being a throughput increase, is potentially a more useful spell to randomly reduce the cooldown on than DRW due to synergy with Red Thirst - although DRW procs are certainly superior to Vampiric Blood procs. :man_shrugging:

(Donnicton) #34

Conflict and Strife feels very very underwhelming for Frost given the demand is that it takes up a major essence slot. 10% increased damage and a minor QoL change to Frozen Orb is not at all comparable to say a proc for 7 free seconds of a 3 minute cooldown like Icy Veins from Vision of Perfection.

I can only see a comparable benefit happening in extreme scenarios such as very unlucky proc rates on Vision during aoe against aggressively large numbers of enemies, where Frozen Orb can be chain cast. And in those scenarios, I’d probably rather just go with Blood of the Enemy instead and benefit from the gigantic crit numbers I’d gain from the additional crit chance and damage interactions with Shatter.


Not going to reiterate my rambling intro from the DPS essence thread, and I didn’t test many of the essences requested in this post but I felt it was necessary to give some feedback on the assassination rogue interaction with Vision of Perfection.

I’m not sure how I feel about this essence. On one hand the effect is super powerful when interacting with Nothing Personal as even if we only get 1 second of vendetta from the proc, we still get the full duration energy regen and poison dot from the trait. On the other, the base CD reduction in addition to the proc CD reduction is pretty infuriating as the unreliable reduction disallows even trying to use a 1m 30s CD trinket for on use with vendetta. I have never been a fan of these type of effects ever since Convergence of Fates. While the interaction with NP is strong enough to carry damage on ST, the lack of the on-use trinket in combination with a planned, reproduce-able burst window further destabilizes DPS on progress fights and makes the effect of my major CD less impactful. For example on Jaina, it was extremely important to have maximum burst at specific timings to push through checks to reduce stack amounts / beat mechanic overlaps / etc.

As it is now, if the specific interaction with NP is intended, the essence is strong and at current tuning of essences, will likely be used as a major slot for raid fights. If that interaction is not intended and is nerfed, the essence will become more trouble than its worth and probably will be passed over for more consistent burst in conjunction with Galecallers / Plumage / <insert 2min CD on use secondary trinket here>.

(Culin) #37

I feel like Vision of Perfection is fine for Protection Warrior, but for Arms I would think Avatar or Deadly Calm is a much better choice for it’s proc component.

Any proc that leads to a loss of control tends to be a damage loss. I can’t think of any situation this is really interesting outside of getting out of potential CC for “free”.

(Jape) #38

The Crucible of Flame seems woefully undertuned in any AoE situation and the minor is fairly awful.

Use + DoT was 1500 dps

Minor was 547 dps and 53(!) HPS over 202 seconds.

Would never touch it for a mixed aoe/single target situation (so basically ever) and the minor is almost like having nothing equipped.

(Heaton) #39

For Arms this essence is going to be very awkward because you randomly start Bladestorming and I don’t think any other classes proc causes them to start casting an ability. Why not use Avatar, Deadly Calm or even just make Colossus Smash go off?

(Newronka) #40

For Guardian druids its good change but tbh for brewmaster monks its better leave it with Fortifying Brew then Niuzao. Niuzao his dmg is weak and random taunting stuff feels bad. Niuzao proc need some more love with buffs.


I just wanna ask who picked the warrior talent for conflict and strife? All the other tanks have these cool talents they get, but prot warrior gets a 1 second root. You couldn’t pick Bodyguard, dragon charge, or sword and board? Like I’d be fine with oppressor, but come on the root talent is just so lame.

(Brujanna) #42

Hey, anything similar coming down the pipe for VDH or nah? To be sure, we pretty much wholly lack any comparable talents for periodically increasing DPS. :frowning:


Yeah I was going to bring up the question of Blood Deathknights Vision of Perfection, if the other tank specs have damage throughput cooldowns, Deathknight probably should too via Dancing Rune Weapon, or Bonestorm if talents are now being considered.

(Jape) #44

They would have to give VNG a dps cooldown first.


Ok big Feedback post following up on other essences from a DPS DK point of view:

  • Conflict and Strife

As a whole I am concerned the idea of this Essence is to give PvP players more Talent slot choice, rather than giving fun and impactful PvP only tools to PvE situations. Although I can see how difficult it could be to tune a single PvP Talent to match the extreme DPS boosts of many DPS Essences.

Also in current build seems Not Yet Implemented so didn’t test any of these.

Unholy Command giving two grips seems rather nutty for the reason grips are often the only reason to bring Deathknights to raid groups, and if Blood has 1) a shorter cooldown on Deathgrip 2) a second charge of grip and 3) Gorefiends Grasp.
This also has the side effect of making Blood a tank with 3 Taunts it could use back to back.

Chilstreak has always been a fun concept ability, although it doesn’t interact with the rest of the kit at all, so just don’t see it being used much.

Necrotic Strike kinda perfectly matches the “give PvPers a extra slot” goal, because it is an Always Taken, and spec defining Talent. But I don’t see any use of this Essence outside of that niche PvP situation, because Necrotic Strike replaces Scourge Strike and Festering Wound damage in PvP via the large healing absorb. Without the absorb being factored in, Scourge Strike and Festering Wound damage, outdamages a Necrotic Strike.
There is also a resource bug with how Necrotic Strike works:
Normally when you pop a Festering Wound with Scourge Strike you gain 3 Runic Power.
When you convert a Wound into the Necrotic Strike debuff, you don’t get any resource gain.

Many Deathknights would prefer more impactful options for this Essence, like any of the Aura talents or more damaging options like Raise Abomination. Although these might be out of the scope of “just an extra talent slot for PVP”, and Auras would have the same issues as Druids have previously talked about.

  • Memory of Lucid Dreams:

I noticed this build this Essence is now boosting Rune regen speed on use, and minor proc to return Runes. Like an on-demand Runic Corruption on all Runes, and Murderous Efficiency randomly proc Runes when you spend them.
Instead of effecting Runic Power generation and refunding RP.

This is a great change since it boosts Deathknight resources without getting too crazy when involved with Runic Power spender talents like Frost Breath of Sindragosa or Unholy Gargoyle (if it were ever tuned high enough as a 3 min DPS cd to be a viable talent).

I do question if the resource gains are strong enough to be considered viable vs the more DPS Role Essences of big nukes like Crucible of Flame for example.

  • Ripple in Space

A few things with this essence.
The mobility on non mobile classes like Deathknight would be great… but as a Major Essence slot, the AoE fire damage felt extremely weak vs DPS Role Essences of big nukes like Crucible of Flame.

The Minor power of this Essence didn’t seem to be working when I tested it, no buff appeared no matter how fast i moved.

There was also a major crash bug with this essence, that I reported in both ingame and game crash UI, which I will rewrite here:
If you use this Essence and get the countdown till blink and then use a class teleport skill like Death Gate you will break the game in the current build.
When I did it I got a load screen for Acherus, I then got a load screen for Broken Isles, then an Error #132 client crash.
When I logged back in my Corpse was in the middle of the Broken Isles oceans and completely not retrievable.
I don’t know how many people might “accidentally” use this before travelling through a portal but worth bringing up.

  • Vision of Perfection

As mentioned in previous post, questionable if Vampiric Blood is the correct spell to proc, but I’ll leave that to more tank people. :stuck_out_tongue:

Empower Rune Weapon seems to be a really weird choice for this ability to proc considering it gives resources rather than damage proc like many other classes. The tooltip on Empower Rune Weapon says it gives a Rune and 5 RP every 5 seconds, but the proc lasts 7 seconds and in my testing gives 2 runes and 12 Runic Power in that time. One resource gain at the start of the buff, one at 5 seconds and a strange +2 RP at the end of the buff.

It would be much better if this proc affected Pillar of Frost rather than this random resource gain you cannot control or possibly make use of.

Too often in my Proving Grounds testing it would proc from the initial Howling Blast on running to a target while I was still at full resources.
But I also had times when it would proc during an Empower Rune Weapon (Adding duration), during a Breath of Sindragosa and allow that breath to be extended a fair duration feeling rather powerful. Perhaps feeling stronger than the “resource essence” Memory of Lucid Dreams.

So this Essence got a lot of flak early in PTR for procing a single Army Ghoul that either died by the time he got out of the ground, or in the first build didn’t die at all.
The current tuning of 2 ghouls for 19 seconds feels better for the sole reason: It now procs a Magus of Dead if you have that trait, and increases the value of Last Surprise trait by also exploding at the end of their duration.

Question: Is it intended that this Essence is so affected by Azerite Traits?
The presence of Azerite Trait swings this Essence from feeling extemely meh and undertuned at 2 Ghouls, to feeling pretty good if you have Magus traits on your gear.

Second Question: What’s the proc rate on this effect?
I had a few Proving Ground runs when it only proced once on the last wave, or had 2 or 3 procs within a very short window. Felt very swingy.