Essences Feedback - Multiple Role Essences


So not only did I make a bug report on the PTR, but I will also post one here. Previous iterations of the PTR had the essence “Vision of Perfection” procing the BM Hunter ability Aspect of the Wild, which (when traited with Primal Instincts) gave it the additive mastery bonus per trait for a few seconds. In the current iteration of PTR we have “Vision of Perfection” procing Aspect of the Wild WITHOUT the mastery bonus from Primal Instincts. This seems like a fairly large bug considering the fact that with my Paladin I have the trait Avenger’s Might. I can even stack multiple Avenger’s Mights for an additive bonus. With “Vision of Perfection” procing I STILL get the mastery bonus with the trait. Both of these traits do the same thing; both give mastery upon using their respective abilities. Either this is a glaring issue taking it away from BM Hunter and letting it remain on Paladin, or this is a major error in the current PTR coding. Given how the traits line up with both of these respective classes from a DPS stand point this seems like an oversight. Avenger’s Might is one of Ret Paladins BIS traits and they stack it, but Primal Instincts is BM Hunters’ actual BIS trait. It takes Aspect of the Wild from a mediocre cooldown to a major one, and without the mastery procing alongside Aspect, the essence is practically useless.

(Bull) #63

VDH - Majors

Conflict and Strife - Why would I use this over another essence when the healer can dispel me

Crucible of Flame - Unless it is buffed I can’t see people taking this for the damage, and outside of trash pulls the heal is pretty weak with a long cd.

Lucid Dreams - Pain is not a high priority for VDH, it is something we dump when we have nothing else to push.

Ripple in Space - Demonic Leap already does this, so we would only take for the 10% DR, which we wont because it is only 10%.

Vision of Perfection - This is basically gluttony, a talent we already have. It might be good because all the others are not worth taking, but it is not exciting.

World Vien Resonance - It gives us mainstat if we stay within 12 yards. Not something to get excited about, but maybe it will sim well (I hope not though, really boring)

As it is VDH Major Essences (including the tank ones) do not really interact with our kit, they have no real effects on our rotation, and none really fill the holes that were created when you took away our artifact weapons. We still have low uptime on our defensives, are very spikey, and do not have talent choices.

(Elehehe) #64

Memory of Lucid Dreams passive seems not to proc enough to benefit from it? Tested on ele, seemed to proc once a minute, refunding half an earthshock.

Conflict and Strife procs without you doing anything (in proving grounds)

(Jape) #65

Lucid Dreams really changes a lot based on how often you hit spenders. I can easily manage 4ppm with some varied builds.

(Elehehe) #66

I see. Maybe it should be tuned with the cost of the spender scaling the proc chance? Don’t know much about other classes

(Nimox) #67

A question we have seen come up in a few places regarding the Minor effect of Memory of Lucid Dreams that warrants some clarification:

If you use an ability like Templar’s Verdict which consumes 3 Holy Power, or Unstable Affliction consuming 1 Soul Shard, how is a 50% refund handled?

There’s no concept of half of a Holy Power, or half of a non-Destruction Warlock Soul Shard. For things that don’t cleanly have a 50% value we can refund, any partial resources are saved and granted to you when they accumulate up to a whole. Templar’s Verdict will refund 2 Holy Power, or 1 Holy Power, alternating. Unstable Affliction will refund 1 full Soul Shard every other time the proc occurs.

(Metrohaha) #68

Very interesting, thanks for clarifying! I was wondering that too, but didn’t expect there be an elegant solution like this.


Terrible :frowning: Means half the proc procs… nothing. Every other class but warlock at least get something for their proc.


The average amount of resource refund is the same. For Unholy, we can spend single runes. If I spend 100 runes on 1-rune abilities, I get the same refund as spending 100 Runes on 2-rune abilities.

(Elenstelle) #71

Yeah…I can’t imagine this will feel good at all. Can…can we just get the Destro Soul Shard system applied to Aff? Ditch the RNG generation entirely?


I just can’t fathom how they thought “let’s just make half the procs not actually do anything, that sounds like fun”.

I mean, at least pally’s get something, 1HP then 2HP is much more useful than half their procs proccing nothing, and the other half proccing 3.


I think a lot of people are misunderstanding this. It’s equivalent to refunding half a resource each proc. Furthermore, it’d be unfair if it procced more on low-cost abilities since you’d be, on average, healed more per resource spent. Now it heals the same amount per resource spent.


The essence refunding Soul Shards is different to the baseline generation issue for Affliction. Baseline Shard generation via Agony isn’t really on trial here. :stuck_out_tongue:

At the heart Memory of Lucid Dreams just means more resources overall averagely, no matter what you use to spend them.
Its not procs not doing anything, heck you can’t even tell when you get the refund until you do.
In the specific case of Affliction spaming Unstable Afflictions, you will get more shards to spam more Unstable Afflictions. If its on the second cast or the first cast its still the same you get a shard back to use again.

(Elenstelle) #75

I know that Agony’s generation isn’t on trial, but the fact that half the procs, whether or not it overall gives more resources, but it feels bad from a gameplay standpoint.

A proc that gives seemingly nothing doesn’t feel good at all, even if mathematically it all evens out. Its about how the information is given to the players and the overall feel of it.

And the Agony generation is still stupid. Hate it so much. Giving the destro system and tie it to Agony tics would feel a whole lot better even if its functionally the same system.


Thing is you only notice the procs when they happen, theres no indication when you didn’t get anything, so how do you know it happened?
How can it feel bad if there’s no way of knowing it didn’t happen? :stuck_out_tongue:

(Elenstelle) #77

Because it is seemingly ‘proccing’ at half the rate of every other spec in the game.


It’s still proccing at the same rate of x times per resource spent.

(Elenstelle) #79

I know that it mathematically works out, but I think your missing the point of what I’m saying.

Every other proc for Affliction generates a shard. During the proc that doesn’t generate a shard, nothing happens. This gives the illusion that the proc rate is halved.

That illusion of a halved proc rate doesn’t feel good because of the longer perceived drought between procs. Its about perception and feel.


About Lucid Dreams for Shadow. As it requires Drain to exist, it seems to only proc during Voidform, which I assume is correct.

Right now, by testing it seems that it procs from Drain alone ( naked test: imgur com/xtdsXTC can’t add links, add the .) which raises a couple questions on how exactly works.

  • Because Voidform drain is a constant. Does the roll for the proc happen every second or some time period? Or maybe every time Insanity drain is increased?
  • Can other spells or effects also cause Lucid Dream to proc if used during Voidform or does it only happen from Insanity drain events?
  • Since we’re here, is the proc chance 10% like for other specs with abilities that consume resources?

Thanks for the answers.

(Nimox) #81

Some Essence tuning changes that are in the process of being hotfixed:

Ripple in Space

  • Major effect cooldown lowered from 90 to 60 seconds at all ranks.

Memory of Lucid Dreams

  • Major effect cooldown lowered from 180 to 120 seconds at all ranks.
  • Major effect at rank 1 duration increased to 12 seconds, up from 10 seconds.
  • Major effect at rank 2 is now +3 additional seconds, up from +2 additional seconds. This means the whole buff effect will now last 15 seconds at rank 2 or higher, up from 12 seconds.
  • Minor effect rank 3 Versatility buff reduced by 35%

These changes should be on the PTR soon.