Essences Feedback - Damage Essences


(Kaivax) #1

In this thread, please focus feedback and discussion on the damage dealer Essences currently being tested in the Rise of Azshara PTR:

  • Blood of the Enemy
  • Condensed Life-Force
  • Essence of the Focusing Iris
  • Purification Protocol
  • The Unbound Force

Consolidated Essences Feedback Threads
#2

It’s really hard to test any of these with the removal of the essence vendor.

What are we expected to do? Some of these are hidden behind the Mechagon dungeon or require revered reputations. That’s well over a weeks worth of work just to test the baseline rank of these essences.

Bring back the vendor.


(Kaivax) pinned #3

(Acurai) #4

I agree, either that or provide training dummies and a forge in the proving grounds.

But to start off with, Blood of the Enemy’s 35% critical damage amplification doesn’t apply to Storm, Earth, and Fire. Cutting the effect down by 55% (because of the way SEF is designed). Resulting in the total gain from the essence being a 15.75% critical damage amplification (compared to if it were used outside of SEF), a loss if used during our dps cooldown (loss compared to if we just used it outside of SEF).

Say you normally crit for 10k, the essence would increase that to 13.5k. A 3.5k gain.
But SEF turns the 10k crit into a 4.5k crit, buffed to 6,075 from the essence. A 1,575 gain (still a 35% increase, but at 45% the effectiveness compared to having not used SEF). Cutting the effectiveness of the essence by 55% during our main DPS cooldown.

Usually things that SEF end up nerfing are fixed or compensated later down the line patches later, but it would be nice to see this fixed the patch of and not in 8.3.5.

EDIT: It appears that if you have SEF already active when you gain the minor power from Unbound Force (100% crit from the Reckless Force buff) the clones do not inherit the crit chance properly (they do if you use them after gaining the buff)


#5

Also, when we still had the blue quality essences from a few patches ago, Condensed Life-Force received a nerf on the cooldown reduction to the minion it summons. I understand that nerf because originally the cd reduction made the cd close to 90 seconds (down from 180).

However after the nerf, the cooldown would maybe go down to 160 or 170 seconds. Getting 2-3 cd reductions was rare.

Also, the tooltip information for these essences constantly changes. When you look at an essence in the side panel you get a big set of information. But then when you actually plug in the essence to the major slot you get slightly more information.

I didn’t actually know Condensed Life-Force had cd reduction until I plugged it in and tested it. Could that information been stated more clearly for all of these essences?


#6

It was stated in a different Blizzard post that Conflict and Strife was intended to be an option for PvPers, not necessarily useful for PvE content outside of niche situations, especially given that the essence is obtained from PvP. Is there similar thinking about Blood of the Enemy, which is also obtained from PvP and seems extremely useful for certain classes/specs in PvP and raid content?


#7

While that’s understandable about Conflict and Strife… Thats also really risky.

What if DKs get Anti-Magic Zone?

Do they want utility that is that strong? We would love it but is that intended? Having wishy washy rules for something as powerful as these essences is risky. They need to be more clear about what power level is intended for these essences.


(Niingdorei) #8

Even though that focusing iris doesn’t synchronize with any class mechanics, it’s a very fun and cool ability to press. Being able to shoot an iron man laser is fun.


#9

Here’s my feedback. The system is stupid. It makes people do content they don’t want to do and they’re going to be shoe-strung into using the best essence anyway. Another illusion of choice, thanks blizzard.


#10

Blood of the Enemy is too difficult for ranged dps to use. People are gonna lose their minds when they realize they have to PVP for a PVE essence.


(Axeperson) #11

using this a reference (i don’t play ptr’s as to avoid spoilers).

blood of the enemy: I think the major power of this is actually interesting. while it is just flat numbers, there is some play around as you want to hit as many enemies as possible. granted i don’t think it’s very much to play around since all you will do is let tanks pull everything together and then let loose with the major power. if i keep my current crit based build on my hunter, this will probably be the major power i use simply because of the extra consistency and synergy i would get. the minor power is just another boring trinket/azerite armor effect. nothing to play with, just another buff to look at.

essence of the focusing iris: i don’t find this one interesting. it’s a straight line of aoe damage that has no synergy with anything the class does. if you need aoe, take it (i expect this to be stacked on aoe heavy fights), if you don’t need aoe, this will probably never be taken as blizz doesn’t like aoe spells being good single target spells. the minor power just seems stupid. on single target fights, this will never be lost, on aoe fights, this power is useless. it only has applications on single target fights or fights where you need to burn down one major add.

condensed life-force: if i’m reading this right, rank 1 of the major power lasts 30 seconds and the rank 2 and 3 last 20 seconds. considering the rank 2 and rank 3 major powers get bonuses (rank 2 gets an aoe spell cast every 8 seconds and rank 3 gives you haste everytime the guardian casts a spell) based on how long the guardian is out, you really limit it’s power. i wouldn’t be surprised if people left the major power at rank 1 until they could boost to rank 3 seeing as rank 2 could be a dps loss over rank 1. the minor power is really boring in my opinion. it’s the old elemental shaman mastery that shoots projectiles at a enemy and rank 3 causes you to do more damage after their hit by one. another thing where you just play the game and ignore the entirety of the spell since it might as well not exist.

purification protocol: I expect this to be the flashy spell of the bunch. it deals damage, then rank 2 gives a small chance to instant kill (assuming this doesn’t work on raid bosses which makes this entirely pointless as an upgrade beyond adds which may be immune as well. seriously, a raid could all take this, spam in on each wave of adds and they’d fall flat in about a second. no way this works on adds.), and rank 3 just increases damage if you kill something in the beam. boring and useless that is hidden by a flashy spell effect. big shame in my opinion as i like spells that involve giant energy beams crashing from the sky. the minor power just adds a passive chance to cleave when you hit something basically. the heal you get from rank 2 probably isn’t even worth it on it’s own so the viability of this power is entirely dependent on the major power.

the unbound force: the major power is probably the second major power crit based build will use. dealing 300% more damage on a crit with up to 5 more times to hit is going to be ridiculous on crit hunters and fire mages. the minor power, while one i would normally call boring, is actually my favorite minor power. when you fail to crit on something, you gain a stack of a buff. at 20 stacks, you get 50%/100% crit chance for 4/5 seconds. this gives a HUGE dps window in which you can use something like instant pyroblasts, bestial wrath, etc. this minor power actually has planning involved in guessing when you’ll hit 20 stacks so you can make the most of the buff. while this is a passive buff, this is one that if you don’t keep track of, you will be wasting 99% of the potential dps. this is the one essence i would heartily recommend keeping roughly the same.


(Ilkoland) #12

I’ll echo concerns about Blood of the Enemy. In my pre-wipe testing it was one of the best PvE Essences for my melee alts. Locking it behind BGs seems like a very odd choice.


#13

I agree with a lot of the sentinment on blood of the enemy - a lot of classes can abuse it and use it with their burst or other talents, however requiring casters/ranged to get into melee to maximize dps is asking for trouble.

As a mage myself it’s not a gigantic issue, and while i’d love to get a one-up on the other casters in some way since we’re really lacking ST, I don’t think this is the way.

It also seems like it would cause issues to the extend of raid leaders telling ranged/casters they can’t use it if it’s becoming an issue for -EVERY- single ranged to run into melee at the SAME time, EVERY fight, and then stay their to maximize dps if not a mage.

Also the pvp aspect will make people whine endlessly, we’ve seen it before, please do NOT go down that road again, you saw the outrage in MoP over the legendary, and I forget when else it was outraged upon, but it’ll cause mass hysteria.


(Gurthäng) #14

Seriously to hell with essences can we please buff the underperforming specs, like unholy, frost, arms and mages PLEASE? This is ridiculous DKs are barely viable for raids.


#15

Seriously to hell with essences can we please buff the underperforming specs, like unholy, frost, arms and mages PLEASE? This is ridiculous DKs are barely viable for raids.

good feedback in a thread about essences. way to go


#16

Hi,

I feel that it is helpful to preface my feedback with my background as the lens through which content is viewed is important and generally necessary to understand where the feedback is coming from and to temper it should you be aiming some of these essences at parties outside of my normal play environment.

My name is Wil, I am currently 9/9M on both a mage and rogue and was previously, in the first half of Legion as well as beta for Legion, part of the team that was doing elemental shaman theorycrafting and created the SEL website under the name Claptrap, before departing the team as my raid required me to swap to a more competitive spec. I am currently maining the rogue and as such will be posting my feedback from the perspective of an Assassination rogue, I don’t much care for the unpredictable nature of Outlaw and nobody in their right mind would play Subtlety in PvE right now. I realize the window of feedback is fairly narrow but, is what it is.

First off, it would be significantly easier to give you more comprehensive feedback on these essences if i wasn’t forced to enter the proving grounds and fight enemies made of paper that can’t stand long enough to do a full rotation / opener / sustained test / etc. Just bring back the flaskataur, as being able to test different stat layouts with essences giving various secondaries as well as hit an actual training dummy would make this much more accurate and much less frustrating.

  • Blood of the Enemy

The on use will be extremely powerful in PvE despite it being a PvP essence, especially in M+. The on-use does a large amount of AoE burst and the lingering effects are perfect for assassination AoE with triple Echoing Blades. In a raid environment however, it will likely only ever be used for its secondary effect in a minor slot, which is staggeringly powerful. The sheer amount of effective secondaries it gives due to the high proc rate and chance of keeping stacks after proccing haste allows for high up time on what is effectively 3 415 pieces of gear stat budget in 2 of the best stats for the spec. This will likely be one of the primary essences I will be using in 8.2 in a major slot for M+ and a minor slot for raids.

  • Condensed Life-Force

I’m not sure why this summoned elemental got the Fire Elemental treatment and was given a nigh useless AoE cast that does pretty meaningless damage being cast on single target. However, when used to preempt a burst cycle, allowing the haste to stack up and also having at least one Nothing Personal trait you have pretty much limitless energy and very fast globals (the proving grounds mob died after 1 envenom so who knows if I could’ve fit a 4th in the Toxic Blade window). Not to mention the steady 10% dmg dealt increase. I’m fairly certain it wouldn’t out perform other essences due to the 3min vs 2min CD de-sync and the fact that it can’t be effectively used on pull. The damage the actual elemental and the spikes the player procs do is fairly trivial (7 casts equaled a single envenom) but the haste and 10% dmg boost are the real powerhouses in this essence and feel OK for a starter essence.

  • Essence of the Focusing Iris

The minor effect on this essence is what interested me most, and I have to say I find it wanting. 330 haste after stacking up sounds excellent, but the limitation on target swapping really puts me off. I’ll lose effective max stack up time frequently if the fight has any target swapping and will have to ramp again. The amount of haste it gives is not so substantial to have this behavior imo. Additionally, there are lulls in the rotation for assassination when pooling for TB windows, and the haste doesn’t proc on white hits, it procs on poison procs and other abilities. If I were to say, be very unlucky in a 4 sec period and have no deadly poison procs, I’m not using any other abilities during that time either waiting for energy to pool and the buff will fall off. (Ignoring cases where crippling poison could proc, non-bosses and non-slow immune mobs, because if you go 4 sec without either poison on one of those you should just log off 'cause your luck sucks)
The on use effect is somewhat strong but is very narrow, much narrower than eye beam’s hitbox iirc from my time playing a DH. This narrow hitbox leads to use only being very good on pretty narrow use-cases. Additionally i’m fairly certain just spamming triple EB FoK could probably do the same damage or more as it because you not only need to first cast the beam, then channel it. The opportunity cost on that is insane.
Furthermore, the major and minor effects on this essence are diametrically opposed. You would only ever use the major in AoE situations and the minor sucks in those situations.

  • Purification Protocol

Hard to properly test this in an environment that hosts no aberrations as the effects seem under-tuned to account for the additional functionality on specific target type. Damage is underwhelming and faces the same issues as other ground targeted AoE in any situation where it would be good… the tank has to kite in any m+ above 10, a lot. Outside of the edge cases that may exist where aberrations are abundant this essence i think is a dud.

It’s also very unclear how “Has a low chance to immediately annihilate any specimen deemed unworthy by MOTHER.” actually functions. If this is just a small chance to instantly kill any mob of any type and hp in the beam it’s pretty open for all 5 members of a party taking this essence and using it all at once and praying for RNG to kill the mobs they want. Aside from being potentially cheesy that’s not particularly interesting functionality.

  • The Unbound Force

I don’t really know what to say about this one. The damage is honestly laughable for what I assume the play loop is meant to be, eg. wait for 20 stacks > channel. In the best case, the major effect will contribute ~860 DPS at the gear scaling I’m currently at in the proving grounds, IN ADDITION to the opportunity cost of channeling the ability. And that’s the “best” case, ie. using it exactly every 45sec with 100% crit chance. Wholly not worth it. The minor effect could definitely see some use in M+ as getting 5 sec of 100% crit while spamming FoK with triple EB into 20 mobs would be juicy. I couldn’t specifically test it really as again, proving grounds mobs die in 1 hit usually, especially the AoE rabbits, but if you can proc multiple stacks off FoK or are at the very least guaranteed a stack off every use since on a lot of mobs you’re likely to have a significant amount of non-crits, it will be very good in that content.

Final Thoughts
Blood of the Enemy is so strong. I won’t particularly enjoy doing BGs to get it but whatever, I’ll suffer through.
The cast/channel/etc essences need to hit so hard that they outweigh opportunity cost or we need to be able to keep attacking while it goes off because as it is now, they will never be taken.
The elemental from Condensed Life-Force needs to not cast the aoe spell in ST and needs to have no CD on it for AoE situations, as it stands the damage from the minor proc and the ele casts are ignore-able, and the damage gain from the special effects of % dmg and haste are the only thing peeking through.

Thanks, hope this feedback helps as if this system doesn’t hit the ground running and feel good I’m pretty sure we’re going to have another WoD on our hands and I don’t really want that, and I know you guys don’t want that.


Essences Feedback - Multiple Role Essences
(Failedwizard) #17

Honestly, tough; we have to PvE to PvP so they can feel some of our pain for once.


#18

Buff Arms warrior the damage in pve is bad fury warrior needs the buff too


(Culin) #21

I feel Blood of the Enemy should not be locked behind PVP, as it’s a very powerful melee essence that without undertuning, will likely be the best choice in PVE.

The Unbound Force is likely a better candidate for PVP gating as it’s focused on critical strike builds and utility, and has a timing element that is very important in PVP.


(Sefirosuwar) #22

Blood of the Enemy - in pvp is going to be so ridiculously over powered for melee comps in areana -

Imagine getting charged by
DH Darkness and blur immunites- DK AMS immunity to cc -Holy pally bubble Wings - rush you then smash Blood of the Enemy, and every other Damage CD and
ROFL STOMP EVERY COMP : instant deaths from the shear overall damage increases to critical damage and crit strike with a triple mally go. I dont want to be the ranged caster that deals with that.