EPIC BG wins decided in seconds

Ashran, whoever wins ROC skirmish wins the match. If 5+ raid members don’t head to ROC, the match is already a loss.

Isle Of Conquest, whoever wins Hangar, wins. If 5+ raid members go WS, it’s a loss seconds into the match.

Wintergrasp - offense team, afk’s out or goes and hides. If 5 or more do that and don’t go Sunken Ring, it’s GG.

Alterac Valley is the only bg where things can get unpredictable.

Can we spread the power out in these BGs? In IoC can we scale seige with new seasons of gears so a single rogue can’t gib glaives? In Ashran, can we put the artifact somewhere else on the map so people have to choose between it and frags for their giant, and stop this skirmish winner takes all at ROC? Can we take Wintergrasp out of the epic battle rotation or again, scale seige with new season gear so they don’t get gibbed 4 seconds into their base push so offense actually wants to play and half the raid doesn’t afk out at the start?

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Pretty accurate assessment :ok_hand:

And yes, AV is the only one where you occasionally see some back-and-forth. The other 3 are very front-loaded with a “first teamfight” that quickly snowballs for the winning side.

Coordinated/premade players can sometimes recover from losing the first teamfight, but pug players almost never do. Pug players only have 1 teamfight in them, if they get wiped once in that first teamfight then that’s the end of the BG (for all intents and purposes).

“decided in seconds” is a bit of an exaggeration, but most matches are definitely decided in the first 5 minutes or so.

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Docks and ws is far superior if the team has a decent glaive defense group. I won plenty of times where we couldn’t take hangar, but then heavily defended our glaives to win much faster.

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the difference between hangarD and any other strategy is that hangarD only loses if played wrong. while docks or WS can still lose if played correctly.

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My first IoC last night was a good, clean win with docks, WS and both resource nodes.

My next IoC win that night was a hangar group with proper defense and no bomb running.

Anything can work. You have to do it properly and you have to agree to do it properly.

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Rewarding conquest for a loss, like island pvp did in BfA will make it worth sticking. Offer greater conquest the closer the match is will encourage effort.

You’re welcome Blizzard.

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not true at all, i’ve won killing horde mage while horde is in ROC then we hard defended our mage, we even left a group defending our mage meanwhile a group killed voljin

i agree in everything else, first clash decides the winner in almost every bg.

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I think what you are actually trying to say is “highest ilvl wins no matter what tactic they go for”!

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No…that’s now what I’m saying at all.

It just depends if your team groups up n follows the plan or not . 90% of the time alli will have a plan and then they split up and dont follow the plan they said so meh

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I love how people try and make excuses like this isn’t the case.

You can win IoC with glaives - we all know this never happens in reality. What actually happens is hangar wins 100% of the time because there is no counter to the gun ship. You would quit literally need the entire team defending glaives because of how low their health is.

I’ve seen attacking win before! What do you mean - So have I. One in ever 40 or 50 matches or so. A small sample size in favor of your argument is not evidence that wintergrasp attacking is somehow winnable most of the time. That’s like saying you don’t need to wear a seat belt in a car crash because 1 in 100 people survive not wearing one.

You don’t need to win the first fight at RoC in ashran to win the bg - no helping people who believe that

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Happened for me yesterday.

Happened for me earlier today and yesterday, too.

Seen Horde take RoC multiple times and still lose.

Nice try though! Given how many people AFK out so quickly in Epics, at least I know you’ve got a bunch of people who agree with you (despite how wrong you are). Better for the people that stay that the quitters bounce early :slight_smile:

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Basing facts on anecdotal fallacy.

This is the bane of humanity.

I mean this whole thread is anecdotes. Welcome to life. Sometimes it’s the best evidence you’ve got.

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I’ve one tons of games without hangar. People just need to use demos and glaives correctly.

I don’t even know last time I had a defense game. I think more around 3/4 games I win on O. Comes out who wins the fight at SR will win unless your team goes full retard.

For most part yes. I can recall losing once was because alliance pushed flag. So boss died to glads and we only had I think 4 heals. Every time people died they just ran right back and died and never regrouped entire game. Team went full retard.

Most epics will depend on healers. Team with most heals will majority of time win. Unless some of those healers are just trash and get out healed by dps somehow.

That is every strategy…. If you play it right you win. If you don’t you lose. On paper everything is flawless. Will come out to better players for each start.

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Hangar is not 100% win if your alliance and a third to a half of your team runs bombs. I wish I were kidding but it happens all the time.

Wintergrasp Alliance is a loss these days near 100% regardless if on defense. Alliance is simply just that bad.

AV. Horde always defends a tower, always. Alliance never (or very rarely) defends and thus rarely wins the race. I suspect Alliance players don’t want to defend causing them to be stuck up North.

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You left out Ashran, where Alliance tends to split up in multiple directions:

  • around 15 go ROC
  • around 5 go to mid flag
  • around 10 run off to Quarry
  • a handful run off into forest/side-areas

What usually happens is the outnumbered ROC group gets wiped (15v35), and then people start leaving :laughing:

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no it isn’t, you are missing the point. if you play hangarD right, you can not lose. if you play mid or docks right, you can still lose, and you will lose if hangar plays correctly.

the way hangarD is played is you capture hangar, put your 5 worst geared people in the airship gunseats, then everyone else defends something, either hangar, the base, or resources. no bomb running.

if you play glaives, you can have the entire team defending them, and a few burst dps will kamikaze the glaives and kill them anyway and there is nothing you can do about it.

hangar is meta because the only way to stop hangar is to control hangar.

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That’s exactly it. People like to speak in absolutes but it’s all anecdotal. All of us, doesn’t matter if you’re Horde or Alliance, have our perspectives.

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I see this opinion all of the time but my personal experience says just the opposite. This is from my Horde perspective. I am not proclaiming to be the Sun Tzu of EBG’s but the strats are not difficult.

Ashran, whoever wins ROC skirmish wins the match. If 5+ raid members don’t head to ROC, the match is already a loss.

What kills the ROC go is the special snowflakes that run to the forest for their flowers. Even when that does happen, the BG can still be won if the Horde can defend their Mage and push back. It makes the game longer but a loss at the ROC is not an automatic loss. I have seen Alliance push back from a ROC wipe and win as well.

Isle Of Conquest, whoever wins Hangar, wins. If 5+ raid members go WS, it’s a loss seconds into the match.

Horde lose the hangar usually because too many people go Workshop. However is the Hangar is lost, Horde can win with Docks and Workshop. The trick is simply to protect the glaives just above the beach/bridge and controlling the tower canons for the Demo’s and Siege. Catapults should be used to send multiple people to the tower to control the guns then Catapults should be used to put a blanket of gas on the Canons in the event your tower team gets overrun. Alliance have the advantage of using the tower cannons to stop the flag cap in their base once the gates go down.

Wintergrasp - offense team, afk’s out or goes and hides. If 5 or more do that and don’t go Sunken Ring, it’s GG.

Offense lose this game when they fail to get “offensive” at SR. They want to sit back and attack the flag from a distance while the defensive team is flipping the node and gaining kills to pilot vehicles. The offensive team has to get in their face. A lot of the success for offense at SR comes from the strength of their healers.

Alterac Valley is the only bg where things can get unpredictable.

With Ruin/CL premades it can be very unpredictable and AV is the only BG that can be sabotaged for the Horde if someone chasing an achievement flips Snowfall thus countering the chokepoint being created.

The problem that I see with EBG’s is most of the current playerbase doesn’t know how to respond if the cookie cutter strat doesn’t work out like a simulation. I have also noticed that Alliance teams (Pugs/Premades?) are responding to a lot of Horde tatics at lot faster and more efficiently. On Sunday, I ran into a well organized group protecting the AV backdoor when 4 of us ported up with a lock gate.

Can we spread the power out in these BGs? In IoC can we scale seige with new seasons of gears so a single rogue can’t gib glaives? In Ashran, can we put the artifact somewhere else on the map so people have to choose between it and frags for their giant, and stop this skirmish winner takes all at ROC? Can we take Wintergrasp out of the epic battle rotation or again, scale seige with new season gear so they don’t get gibbed 4 seconds into their base push so offense actually wants to play and half the raid doesn’t afk out at the start?

Siege Engines have been an issue with balancing since their introduction. I wish and hope they can find a better way to balance their durability as well as their offensive abilities. I always hoped that a Demo/Seige’s strength would come from the amount of the crew on board. i.e. An empty Siege (driver only) should be easy to take down but a fully manned siege gives the Siege

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