Enjoying exclusive items is normal to MMOs, video games, and humans in general

[Froufroukin-proudmoore]

Not sure why only PvP can have exclusives, it always gets a pass on the forums.

I know it needs all the bribes it can get for participation but you’d think there’d be more outrage from these tower folks over that stuff too.

[Sàlju-area-52]

Just because something is normal doesn’t mean that it is a good thing… Plus something that is normal now can be changed in the future.

Now, granted, in some cases an exclusive deal or item can be justified but this is usually due some kind of limitation, usually something to do with stock. A gameplay reward doesn’t have a stock issue because it is just data and pixels… They are infinite. So, that justification is off the table right away…

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

Okay not to sound rude or anything… but that doesn’t explain or excuse why they have to assume people’s intentions or disagreeing with them as anything malicious…

If i asked “Why you feel that way”, then sure, this answer would be welcome.

@Aythina-illidan

We can look at a multitude of games that have tried to make things easier or enabled people to cheese pretty challenging things that has completely undermined the achievement.

Which there’s nothing wrong with that. Challenge doesn’t always equal to fun, just like how no challenge doesn’t always equal to fun. It’s going to be different for everybody.

@Aythina-illidan

Take the Undying title for example, it used to mean something back in 2008, very early 2009. It wasn’t exactly easy to do when Naxxramas was the relevant tier. Fast forward a year later and people have the Undying title having trounced the place in Naxxramas gear. This severely mitigated the appeal to the title to many and led those that did have it to go for other titles because it basically threw having it into question of whether you earned it or “earned” it.

@Aythina-illidan

Another way to look at this is the people with Rank 14 titles on Classic. There are people who got it when it was taking 1.4 million honor a week on Faerlina. There are also people who have it from playing on Sulthraze which had an honor cap for bracket 1 of 200k. There was no difference in the titles or gear, but it was significantly less effort to just do it on Sulthraze as opposed to an actual server. These people were not well liked in the community because rankers all knew each other. We knew the second some random no-name rank 13 showed up on the server that nobody had ever seen before demanding because they’re rank 13 they should get a bracket 1 slot, despite not applying any of the effort of doing it on Faerlina where at best they’d have been brick walled at Centurion.

Alright, i can see the points that not everything is going to be a challenge forever. Heck, that’s actually one of the points i’ve said with Classic and all the other games that has been out for this long as well. It’s not exactly problematic, it’s just an inevitability of games that old.

Difference is, WoW is pretty much ever changing beast, even in Classic apparently. And what suggestion i’m giving is to keep the Mage Tower challenging but always be there. I’m not asking it to be steam rolled in that regard. I mean you don’t see me asking Brawlers to be easy… (Though sometimes their fights make me want to grind my teeth at times, but i preserved)

Plus not to mention, Classic was sort of notorious for having all these carries and such. While not a bad thing on it’s own (unless your real money trading) since it’s just a service as much of trading items for gold, i can see, from a certain point of view, how it’s bad in a way that will make the game easier.

@Aythina-illidan

While you are correct that I didn’t lose anything by them readding the Vanilla PvP titles to the game, using Champion felt absolutely pointless because it was attainable by anybody capable of hitting 2k which was in no way a challenge given you didn’t lose rating in RBGs for losses until 1600. It had absolutely little relation to the fact getting Champion took a decent enough amount of effort because ranks quit being free after 6.

Look, you can feel however you can feel, but don’t think for a second that you’re discouraged from using it just because everybody has it. You can still use it and still be proud of the work you put in. The work that nobody is going to know. And honestly i think it would be better to just focus on what you have, rather then what somebody else doesn’t have.

@Aythina-illidan

Even the Mage Tower being re-released, it’s 10% easier according to the coefficient Blizzard themselves put out.

…So it’s not even made like completely easy, it’s just made slightly bit almost not noticeable at all easy?

I’m sorry if i’m not immediately empathic to this situation, but 10% is like… what exactly?.. 1% damage less dealt to you? health pools down by 2.5%? AI response time increased by 0.05 seconds?..

@Aythina-illidan

How would you feel if you spent 4 years of your life studying hard for a degree, but someone else got the same degree because they merely enrolled and didn’t have to actually do the courses?

Honestly, I would just not care. I would just focus on what i want to do next.

Why you must think i have to care about the other guy?..

@Aythina-illidan

I can safely say though if I were to be made aware every time I went for a meaningful achievement that “Oh, it’ll be easier in a couple years, don’t bother” I just would not play this game at all. There would be no point.

To you.

Why you’re applying this to everybody else?..

@Aythina-illidan

That goes entirely out the window when every achievement boils down to “It was harder when you did it, but there’s zero distinction because you both cleared it.”

You have dates. You did it earlier then the other mate.

[Uncommitted-khazgoroth]

Enjoying exclusivity does appear to be normal for many people but I have to wonder what happens when the exclusivity is ephemeral, not through other people having access, but in whatever is the cause of exclusivity just disappearing.

[Averyx-quelthalas (Averyx)]

Totally agree, people are so self righteous about it, is hilarious.

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Evelynn-khadgar

Your interpretation that it looks like a bad thing is on you.

I don’t think you’re being honest with me when you say that. Especially since the same exact thing can be said to you and way more applicable. It was a simple question, there’s no reason for you to dodge it.

You are clearly making it look like what the people are saying if it’s true, a bad thing. And you trying to turn it around on me is disingenuous of you, and only goes to prove that you are making it look like a bad thing.

So why you’re making it look like it’s a bad thing here?

[Arshia-alexstrasza]

@Àeus-dentarg

My 2008 t-shirt is special

no, no it’s not.

@Àeus-dentarg

only skill it took was handing the vendor $40

o o f

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Arshia-alexstrasza

@Àeus-dentarg

only skill it took was handing the vendor $40

o o f

“I’m like “Yo, that’s fifty dollars for a t-shirt”” -Macklemore

[Evelynn-khadgar]

@Foxycontin-moon-guard

But there’s a caveat. All the content from which you could EARN the item needs to still be there

That is part of the given question already.

@Foxycontin-moon-guard

and earning the item through the appropriate challenge should award the achievement as well.

Why does that need to be included? The achievements would be on the vendor, too.

@Foxycontin-moon-guard

This would create a situation where if people saw your cool mog, they’d check your achievements to see if you earned it or not, and they’d give you the appropriate amount of prestige.

Why would this matter at all?

[Evelynn-khadgar]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Especially since the same exact thing can be said to you and way more applicable.

You explicitly stated that you thought I was making it a bad thing, there is no interpretation to be had. You’re of course free to say anything you like, but in this case it wouldn’t make any sense.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

You are clearly making it look like what the people are saying if it’s true, a bad thing.

No, I actually offered no value statement. But your repeated attempts to place value on them is telling.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

And you trying to turn it around on me is disingenuous of you, and only goes to prove that you are making it look like a bad thing.

You’ve offered no proof of the first half of your statement and as such the bootstrapping of the second half is invalid, and irrelevant.

[Foxycontin-moon-guard]

@Evelynn-khadgar

Why does that need to be included? The achievements would be on the vendor, too.

Because the achievement is not an item. It is not a cosmetic or a mount. It is literally nothing more than a certification that you did a thing. There is absolutely no justifiable reason to sell achievements, only the rewards that are tied to them.

@Evelynn-khadgar

Why would this matter at all?

Because of people like the OP who want to share and compare experiences with other players. It wouldn’t particularly matter to me, but some people enjoy that aspect of the game. I don’t have much use for achievements myself, nor does anyone who just wants the mounts and cosmetics. But there is a lot of overlap. I think most people would want to go do the activity, win, and collect the item that way.

I’d just stock up on whatever I wanted at the free vendor and enjoy the game on my own terms, but I don’t play like the majority. Never have.

[Dalrond-moon-guard]

I don’t mind people having something I do not have.

I do mind that the possibility of getting that item is taken away from me without good reason.

If it simply was too difficult for me to obtain, sure, that is a good reason, that is on me.

Then again, I also criticize blizzard’s in game black market, but that is really only after they introduced the wow token. In the black market you can sometimes buy items that are no longer obtainable, usually for millions of gold - the result of this price is the introduction of the wow token and it is to boost the sales of wow tokens, aka, it is a greedy cash-grab which I overall dislike in a company.

I do not mind companies making money, I do mind greedy cash-grabs which is what WoW have turned into.

[Foxycontin-moon-guard]

@Dalrond-moon-guard

I do mind that the possibility of getting that item is taken away from me without good reason.

[Sheepmenoob-tichondrius]

@Àeus-dentarg

• People who want exclusive items literally only derive joy from the suffering of others
• New players are not going to join WoW because a miniscule % of items (they they don’t know exist) are no longer available
• The happiness of players of who enjoy having exclusive items is wrong and secondary to the happiness of players who feel they should be able to have every item
• The content wasn’t hard (because I said so), so you don’t deserve to place value the rewards you “earned” (but I aggressively demand access to those same rewards)
• The only way to enjoy the game is the way I say is OK (and anyone who says otherwise is a morally bankrupt, gatekeeping jerk)
• If every item in the game isn’t available to every player, the game will suffer catastrophically somehow I guess

You don’t have the moral high ground for not caring about exclusive items.

All of these points are true to some extent or another. But also you are greatly exaggerating to the point of falsehood. To make yourself feel better about behaving badly?

If it makes you feel good making a new player feel bad because some item you are using is unavailable, then you are the problem.

“You shouldn’t feel bad about x because I said so” really isn’t an argument that will convince anybody.

I have sparkle kitty. I feel bad that this is the only outstanding cat form in the game. I feel bad having to explain to players who are impressed by it that they can never have it. I also feel bad for players who didn’t get it because blizzard lied to us and told us we would never be able to use a shapeshift appearance on an off spec.

@Àeus-dentarg

The only way to enjoy the game is the way I say is OK (and anyone who says otherwise is a morally bankrupt, gatekeeping jerk)

This is exactly what you yourself are saying. Look in the mirror, bud. Telling new players it’s their fault they didn’t get that thing that was removed because they didn’t subscribe to the game before they ever heard of it - or even before they were born - is really not an effective argument.

You can’t demand respect. You have to earn it.

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Evelynn-khadgar

You explicitly stated that you thought —

Here’s my quote again.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

…why you’re making it look like it’s a bad thing here?..

If you’re trying to imply or say to me you aren’t making it look like a bad thing, then why are you acting like it is by saying “So one of the arguments I see a lot in these threads is that other people having the same things should not matter to you and should not affect your enjoyment.”? which is even followed up with your “But is that a realistic premise?” question, implying that you don’t see this as a good thing at all?

If that’s not what you are thinking, then why said any of it then?..

@Evelynn-khadgar

No, I actually offered no value statement. But your repeated attempts to place value on them is telling.

This is just you assuming on your part. Especially since you didn’t even answer my question and kept on dodging it and even twisting my words around.

@Evelynn-khadgar

You’ve offered no proof of the first half of your statement–

And you’re denying. Dishonesty. You didn’t needed to be dishonest you know…

@Evelynn-khadgar

–and as such the bootstrapping of the second half is invalid, and irrelevant.

That is your subjective opinion.

[Happy-gundrak]

why is your background green?

[Evelynn-khadgar]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

“But is that a realistic premise?” question, implying that you don’t see this as a good thing at all?

Something can be realistic or unrealistic independently of being good or bad.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

This is just you assuming on your part

Nope.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

And you’re denying. Dishonesty. You didn’t needed to be dishonest you know…

Oh, did i miss the proof you offered? Where was it?

@Baridorielor-malfurion

That is your subjective opinion.

As opposed to what kind of opinion?

[Evelynn-khadgar]

@Foxycontin-moon-guard

There is absolutely no justifiable reason to sell achievements, only the rewards that are tied to them.

Why wouldn’t you have them available? If people want them they want them.

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Evelynn-khadgar

Something can be realistic or unrealistic independently of being good or bad.

So then you weren’t saying it’s a bad thing then? Why say it at all then? Why act like it then?..

@Evelynn-khadgar

Oh, did i miss the proof you offered? Where was it?

This is a strawman you’re pulling out of nowhere. Plus not to mention, i’m staring at the proof if i needed any…

@Evelynn-khadgar

As opposed to what kind of opinion?

I figured you would need a refresher on what opinions are…

[Berryfeast-moon-guard]

I’m a newer player and I don’t desire the mage tower appearances because of their exclusiveness, I simply desire them because they look cool. Granted, the only appearances I actually care about are the brewmaster staff and prot flail.

I can understand some of the points about keeping the appearances exclusive, which is why I think the appearances should be released as recolours. Blizzard is already doing that with the new fel-bear druid form so I think it’s reasonable to ask Blizzard for recolours of the other all appearances as wel.