Enhancement Shaman PTR Changes


(Tyranic) #121
Are you kidding? THIS is your big re-work for Enhancement for the expansion? This is what took 8 MONTHS to put together. My God. You all really don't care about any of the amazing MECHANICAL suggestions from the community. These are pitiful number changes. Between whats happened with Shadow, Elemental and now enhancement, it's obvious you just don't care. Ya'll have literally just killed Enhancement.

(Volitar) #122
1/10 you tried.

(Oprahwinfury) #123
This is basically Eyonix coming back from the gout and saying "so how do you guys like your revamp?" 2.0

(Olluul) #124
Make Gust of Wind baseline for all shaman specs, remove Feral Lunge replace with Healing Rain. Increase baseline Maelstrom cap. At least promise to look at the RNG nature of the spec at some point, even if it's not 8.1. Then with these changes in addition, at least it won't feel insulting.

(Usutu) #125
We were told the devs didn't have time for the changes they wanted to do in patch 8.0. Do you really mean to tell me these tuning changes couldn't have been done back then during the Beta or via a hotfix? I find it very hard to believe. We were expecting bigger changes to the mechanics.

(Vaurien) #126
Thank you for detailing these upcoming changes. Before I leap to conclusions, I should ask if talent changes are the entire scope of of the issues you intend to address in 8.1 or if further things might be addressed before this patch goes live?

(Mohgra) #127
Congrats Bliz,
I didn't think you could throw away more trust and goodwill, but telling us to wait for 8.1 from Beta for this truly surpassed my expectations in how bad things have gotten.

Once again, we're in a situation where you were either being completely disingenuous in your previous statements, or you're completely incompetent in your ability to follow through..

So which is it?
Are you liars or idiots?

(Moarwolves) #128
Wtf is wrong with you. Do you need ME to come make the class??? we are dead in raid. I'm un-subbing if you dont fix this. How hard would it have been to just give the 50 back to us.... this is not a 'rework'. guys, we waited THIS long, for a pile of garbage. If it's true that blizz LISTENS to the forum posts... they'd know how to fix the spec, we've said it a million times.

(Vaenaru) #129
My biggest problem with Enhancement isn't the overcapping. It's a problem still, in terms of design at least and allowing a higher skill ceiling, but being overcapped doesn't make me feel -bad- when it happens, because it means I can keep hitting buttons.

No, the streaks with no procs where I run out of maelstrom and rockbiter charges are what feel bad. Less common than overcapping, but way more impactful, to me.

The lightning shield nerf seems like it's probably going to increase the likelihood of running dry more than anything, as well as making it a standout on the tier for being the only one that doesn't provide any savings or other benefit to maelstrom generation. It was also the only talent on the tier that had a real benefit to AoE damage, even if that wasn't the main purpose, so this change will hurt our AoE which is already inconsistent after Sundering is on CD, even with the generic buff.

While we're at it, the Landslide buff is fine, but that row is also awkward. Landslide is the only one that doesn't generate extra maelstrom, and therefore picking it will, again, increase the likelihood of dry spells, even if only slightly.

The other changes are all solid, although I personally don't want to see Overcharge become a go-to talent as it just feels bad to use as a melee spec, IMO, no matter how strong it may or may not be.

(Elleteil) #130
11/09/2018 06:23 PMPosted by Madalot
11/09/2018 06:21 PMPosted by Lysjana
Number tweaking? Is that the solution?
Here I was, hoping/expecting mechanical changes.. jesus
It's not like you guys needed more thorough feedback


yeah its funny how we keep being told they're listening to feedback, then we get this.


if they listened to feedback they wouldnt have been utterly baffled by the response to Diablo Immortal at Blizzcon, or why Destiny 2 isnt prionting money infinitely.

(Whiskeyjack) #131
11/10/2018 07:59 AMPosted by Madalot
Weekend now, I can't see us getting a response until Monday, but I at least want some god damn confirmation that this feedback is being passed on.

Im sick of things not being made clear, Im sick of not being heard, im sick of trying to give a damn about this game when the Dev's dont care enough to do their !@#$ing jobs properly!


Why do you think they waited until Friday to post this? So they could take the weekend off and hope that maybe shamans would forget about this mess by Monday.

(Majyka) #132
When they made the Elemental and Spriest "changes" they did the same thing - post it and leave. The changes were the same hotfix-level garbage and there was never any follow-up or additional changes. What you see is what you get.

(Kalarm) #133
OMG, as much as I'm happy that some talents may get more action...

Seriously that's all? Not even maelstrom cap raised back to 150? Nothing to address RNG issues? That's it?

You decided to redesign enh for legion when the specs issues were not that big in WoD. You decided to screw the spec in BFA and now all you give us is this?

/insert "Am I a joke to you meme here"

Are we going to need to do a new bus shock or something?

Edit: I honestly just cancelled. I'm already just logging in to raid and stuff and considering all of the bad decisions taken recently, I think I'm good for a break. Maybe it will send a message, maybe they won't care. Who knows. There is plenty of games to play in november and december anyways.

(Primoni) #134
As somebody who enjoys the core gameplay of having little downtime, mostly time being spent on Global Cooldown, I love Enhancement from the bottom of my heart. Capping Maelstrom and low numbers are only part of the problem though.

I have 355 ilvl, and by all intents and purposes, I should probably be running at least +4 mythic to start getting accurate loot for myself. What's not fun about the game currently, is if I am a Shaman in DPS Enhancement spec, I will not get accepted to a +2, despite doing a +2 being absolutely worthless to me. The big problem here is what you have done to Enhancement mains, is you have barricaded your games really cool raids, and dungeons, and mythic + system, all of those do NOT allow for Shaman to be Enhancement spec there. And worst of all, you didn't address the real problems here.

I could go on and on about it, but there are many people who do frankly a much better job than me at explaining what this class needs. This isn't a rework, this is a nerf. A nerf to a class that didn't even stand to begin with. Please let this just be the beginning, and let this class live for once. Let Enhancement mains into groups. Please, just listen to feedback. Don't ignore it, we really want World of Warcraft to succeed, and not push us further away.

(Iskyra) #135
11/10/2018 11:49 AMPosted by Primoni
As somebody who enjoys the core gameplay of having little downtime, mostly time being spent on Global Cooldown, I love Enhancement from the bottom of my heart. Capping Maelstrom and low numbers are only part of the problem though.

I have 355 ilvl, and by all intents and purposes, I should probably be running at least +4 mythic to start getting accurate loot for myself. What's not fun about the game currently, is if I am a Shaman in DPS Enhancement spec, I will not get accepted to a +2, despite doing a +2 being absolutely worthless to me. The big problem here is what you have done to Enhancement mains, is you have barricaded your games really cool raids, and dungeons, and mythic + system, all of those do NOT allow for Shaman to be Enhancement spec there. And worst of all, you didn't address the real problems here.

I could go on and on about it, but there are many people who do frankly a much better job than me at explaining what this class needs. This isn't a rework, this is a nerf. A nerf to a class that didn't even stand to begin with. Please let this just be the beginning, and let this class live for once. Let Enhancement mains into groups. Please, just listen to feedback. Don't ignore it, we really want World of Warcraft to succeed, and not push us further away.
Comes down to the whole community perception issue that they've failed to address so far but have at least recognized it, along with Shaman having no true niche.

We need Blizzard to say what Shaman are supposed to do and excel at then target that. Elemental's "thing" is turrety cluster target destroyer but it's still so bad and doesn't excel enough in that role that they're not even in demand for the type of content they should (M+.) Enhancement still doesn't even have a clearly defined role and is beaten out in every way by other melee classes and even Survival Hunter.

The talent changes are a good start but I'm confused why they needed a patch when it's just numerical tuning. Addressing the overcapping issue with Lightning Shield is nice but then they left the severe RNG variance untouched which is a large source of frustration. Overcapping feels bad but having all your DPS tied to Stormbringer and doing nothing to smooth out the valleys will still leave the spec frustrating to play, especially when the 5% buff is mostly to offset the primary talent nerfs, and some of the talent buffs like Hailstorm still aren't even close to enough.

(Coriaana) #136
Everyone saying they're terrible right now is smoking the good stuff. GOOD Enh Shammies right now are top tier dps and in PvP they are extremely hard to kill or stop and they do a crap-ton of damage.
I really dont get these buffs, I really dont. They are already on the OP side as is, this will just put them in godmode.
All they needed was a smoothing out of their RNG. What they didnt need was damage boosts.

(Misnthropia) #137
11/10/2018 07:29 AMPosted by Fugubar
[quote="207682410774"]I'm happy about these changes, talent balance has been a big problem for enhance! I do still think that overcapping maelstrom is still a problem.

Why is overcapping Maelstrom a bad thing? Seems to me that the ideal situation is to have it at 100 all the time, so you can execute any ability without having to wait.
I don't complain if I have more money in the bank than I need to meet expenses..


Because it means the resource is essentially useless.

In theory, spending a resource fluently should result in more dps going out, however, there is no penalty to capping it because quite often it means you've got lucky due to a stormbringer proc, at the moment theres no urgency to spend the resource because Lava Lash is worth about 25% of a Stormstrike.

Whats the point of the resource if it actually means nothing?

(Suhuy) #138
Other issues I've heard others mention:

Rockbiter, Lava Lash, Flametongue don't feel good to press as they're so much weaker than Stormstrike.

Flametongue and Frostbrand are basically the same thing, these might be better off going back to being buff spells.

Nothing to differentiate us in a raid. I wouldn't mind having a raid wide buff again.

(Inbredmule) #139
11/10/2018 12:31 PMPosted by Coriaana
Everyone saying they're terrible right now is smoking the good stuff. GOOD Enh Shammies right now are top tier dps and in PvP they are extremely hard to kill or stop and they do a crap-ton of damage.
I really dont get these buffs, I really dont. They are already on the OP side as is, this will just put them in godmode.
All they needed was a smoothing out of their RNG. What they didnt need was damage boosts.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/thrall/coriaana#difficulty=4

You're misinformed, and frankly out of your league in this conversation. If you're trolling, it's a bad one.

Edit: Thought about it more. I'll be canceling my sub after we get cutting edge. Not dealing with this for another year+.

(Cyndybeck) #140
I for one am very excited to hear of these changes to our new Supreme Overlords.. The Shamans, for PVE. I am completely uninterested in PvP, Battle grounds and arenas. I'm sure I will just shudder with glee when I introduce our fighting friends in the local dungeons and surrounding world environs to these powers. { giggles },