Enhancement Shaman PTR Changes


(Killmame) #101
Please, please, please actually take some of our feedback into account with real mechanical changes to the spec. It's nice that more of our talents are closer together in value, but just a numbers tuning is not enough. I believe I recall in Legion you guys did the larger-scale changes in the 7.x.5 patches, and I kind of hope you deviate from that schedule in this case.

Show us some real love, man. Being a Shaman main has been painful for so many years.

(Mikesavage) #102
11/09/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Delritha
11/09/2018 05:24 PMPosted by Schmeebles
I may be out of touch with How Shamans work in PVP, but with how good they are right now, buffing a lot of stuff by this much seems like it will cause... problems in arena.


PvP has other nobs the devs can utilize; such as lowering agility contribution.
blanket nerfng primary stats is a terrible suggestion . Shhhh

(Suhuy) #103
11/10/2018 02:23 AMPosted by Kalgromash
This is an old post of mine that still reflects the problems we have today so ima leave them here. I hope these bandaid hotfixes are just a patch thing because the spe deserves a lot better than number tuning.

Almost all of our talent tree choices suck in one way or another - Not only does it feel like an unfinished spec but it also plays like one with a casino rng built in proc via stormstrikes. I really want to offer changes for the spec down below.

1. boulderfist and landslide - lets get these out of the way. change them entirely. Both don't work right or offer any class fantasy whatsoever. Boulderfist is in a good place for maelstrom resource already and landslide procs just feels like another proc in between all the other buffs we get. It's really not a fun talent to use.
2. totem mastery - Altho it offers decent buffs. It doesn't do anything for engagement with our totems. I would like them to react when things happen around the shaman. For example green totem reacts when our hp low, wind totem reacts when we do 3 consecutive stormstrikes and so on.
3. Hailstorm- Should be baked into flametongue opening up a cd and also having a new visual to go with it. Buffing our weapons in both frost and fire.
4. Searing Assault- Give us flameshock back over this and let us spread flameshock dot via lava lash like we used to. We desperately need AoE sustain and here we can have that option.
5. overcharge- This ability should to exactly what it says. We overcharge and get a button to press that explodes our lightning overcharge into enemies for bursty AoE.
6. Fury of Air- This ability should be exactly like remorseless winter from frost dks and have a new visual that expresses the fury of air. decent cd with AoE damage. Maybe procs windfury to enemies?
7. Crashing Storm- A tuning change would do wonders and having a stack that keeps buffing crashing storm would be great. A builder AoE for long fights. Remove the random consecration perhaps.
8. Elemental Spirits- This should be our baseline main cd. removing the RNG wolves and having the option to choose which wolves comes out completely opens up the entire spec. Lava lash build, SS build or something in between.
9. Earthen Spike- This talent feels lackluster to use. it always did but now it's just a 20% damage buffer. I personally dislike talents like this that don't really offer me anything else. This one is quite a nit pick for me.
10. Doomwinds- This replacing elemental spirits would be awesome. The potential of having this and forceful winds talent opens up the windfury fantasy we have lacked for so long. I wouldn't mind having minor nerfs to forceful winds talent if it was more consistent and also played with doomwinds.

Feel free to change my ideas and make em better/balanced.


I like a lot of these ideas. I would like doom winds back as well, even if it were renamed

(Nostramo) #104
I am DONE. keep your game blizzard, game became complete trash when devs stopped communicating.

(Blarghj) #105
Level 1 Character because EU-Player.

I miss the 5 Point Instant-cast Maelstrom system.... MAELSTROM AS A RESOURCE IS DA POOP!

It's just fundamentaly boring, it feels like a clunkier version of a Warrior's rage, it doesnt feel like an unique design, it's just boring and non-engaging, and this is what you gave us inplace of the pre-legion hybrid-play that had depth? It's just a big step backwards and makes the class feel boring, and lack identity, you swing your melee-weapons around all of the time, we're not Warriors ok?

-Visualy we're underperfoming, nothing realy has an unique Enhancement look and it makes the class underperform on an indentification spectrum, in the old days you could always reconize them before the Legion-Rework, Shocks, Fire-Elementals, Instantly Casting Elemental-Spells by building up maelstrom in melee, it had an unique gameplay, weaving spells and melee-together, but now it just feels like a clunky and lazy combination of Warrior+Rogue (sinister strike resource generator = rockbiter) except we only have one resource rather than two as the rogue does, granting them a huge-depth aspect larger.
-Gameplay Wise, we're clunky, it feels like you have little to no controll over your DPS, one fight you're topping it out, due to getting alot of Stormstrike procs, and the other one you're barely doing anything just because you feel unlucky, the resource builds up too fast, and the payup for gathering the resource is lackluster and is spent on an ability that's boring, both visualy and ammount in damage it deals relative to time spent building up said resource, it doesnt feel dynamic or rewarding, it's just RNG, and even pro-players cannot avoid getting overcapped at times, because Stormstrike -ALWAYS- takes priority.

ALL of these changes feel like they could easily have just been a Hotfix, it doesnt rework -ANYTHING- just tweak numbers.

11/09/2018 05:24 PMPosted by Schmeebles
I may be out of touch with How Shamans work in PVP, but with how good they are right now, buffing a lot of stuff by this much seems like it will cause... problems in arena.
They removed PVP-Talents that add additional damage on the PTR (forked lightning), created a new nerfed one of Ride the Lightning, that only procs if there's more targets nearby, pretty sure that will nerf Enhancement massively in PVP allready, what feels bad is that the other choices are boring or barely makes a difference.

(Diora) #106
All and any % changes to abilities should be hotfixed. But since they are lazy , they wouldnt have any big reveals for 8.1 .

(Warrybarry) #107
Yea, this is where I call it quits blizzard. You lied to us. I haven't played in a month, but was planning on coming back if the Enh changes made the spec better to play, but instead you just gave us % changes to talents. This is a huge slap in the face to us considering other specs received similar changes in hotfixes, yet it takes till 8.1 to make these changes for enh shaman. Even after Ion said that we would some more core changes to our spec in a Q&A months ago.

You have never tried to communicate with the enh shaman community or ever cared to. I would have honestly preferred you had never posted this because then I could still believe that you are actually working on fixing enh shaman. These changes make it abundantly clear what your intentions are. They are to no strap a bandaid on certain talents and hope we shut up.

A real fix at this point would be to delete enh shaman from the game, and give us another max level character with the same ilvl gear in each slot. We deserve as much for how badly you have mistreated the enh shaman community.

(Ebolachan) #108
BlizzDev1, "Maybe if we sneak in a lot of small numbers tuning changes, they wont remember what Ion said during that Q&A."

BlizzDev2, "Yeah! Thats a great idea. They are so stupid anyway, they'll never know!"

(Tk) #109
You guys are hilarious

(Yzur) #110
11/09/2018 05:19 PMPosted by Demaniac
This doesn't seem to address the issue that Stormbringer chains will cause you to flood in Maelstrom.


In fact, this doesn't seem to address any issue at all.

(Ragehide) #111
Seeing these redundant changes to my favorite class makes me glad that I switched mains after the first week of BFA.

Just reading through them, they do absolutely nothing to fix the core problems with the spec. Let alone the fact that prime talents were nerfed/removed with just about no compensation at all. If Enhance is supposed to have some sort of niche, it may as well be sitting on the bench when other classes can fill the dps role significantly better.

It's almost as if they've been given months and months worth of feedback about issues and potential solutions along with numbers from major theorycrafters and chose to just sweep it all under the rug instead and push changes that no one asked for.

(Fugubar) #112
I'm happy about these changes, talent balance has been a big problem for enhance! I do still think that overcapping maelstrom is still a problem.


Why is overcapping Maelstrom a bad thing? Seems to me that the ideal situation is to have it at 100 all the time, so you can execute any ability without having to wait.
I don't complain if I have more money in the bank than I need to meet expenses..

(Mikesavage) #113
My suggestions:

1) remove all BFA talents, abilities and !@#$erite traits for enh

2) revert to mop enhance with same balance changes of s15, roughly SoO tier i believe.

(Zerik) #114
Glad to see something is being changed.
Just gonna repeat what most already said.

These are changes that could have been done WAY sooner.
We've seem it happen to multiple specs in multiple occasions so there isn't really an excuse.

These are also changes that won't solve any of the issues the players have been complaining for so long. Yes, it helps in bringing the talents closer together but that's basic class design and not what's fundamentally wrong with the spec.

Want to see enhancement shamans happy? Do the following:
- Apply these changes next reset;
- Clearly define our supposed strengths and weaknesses (niche, why people should bring us);
- Actually implement the promised spec rework in 8.1 and communicate it as soon as possible so we can have an open discussion about it;

Playing a mage in the meantime but really demotivated to see the spec I love the most being treated with such neglect and promises being thrown out the window.
We know this is not a rework.
You know this is not a rework.
Please, do something about it.

(Healyemon) #115
There's something funny about everyone collectively screaming that Blizzard doesn't listen without actually looking at what's going on. You got Asmongold knuckledragging his way into the conversation, whipping up a firestorm around beta feedback forums when there's no beta live, like the devs are gonna dig through a forum to reference posts instead of logging them internally somehow. Bunch of morons rolling in on his coattails. "BLIZZARD DOESN'T LISTEN! ASMONGOLD SAID THEY DON'T LISTEN AND MY CLASS ISN'T THE BEST IN THE GAME SO IT MUST BE TRUE NOW I'M QUITTING BECAUSE YOU'RE ALL LIARS!"

Sure they do, their balancing philosophy right now is obvious, it's just obviously meta and not micro focused. They slightly poke at broken things to avoid making them broken in a "way too powerful" way. Prot Warrior, this !@#$, Druid buffs, etc. Then they take giant hammers to things they think are OP, or don't fit the meta they want. Tank sustain, BM Hunters, Frost Mage slows/burst cleave and more largely dungeon kiting meta. Hell, taking movement abilities off the GCD is a meta change, of the variety people have been asking for. The change to GCD overall is itself a reaction to a bunch of old-timers complaining about one button macros and a shift back towards classic WoW structure. They balance the things that are active in the meta, they're trying to shape the meta elements of the game. They also obviously listen, they just move at the speed of a large developer and want to avoid blowing something up by accident. That Ion needs more PR training before he's allowed back on Q&As doesn't change the fact that most devs wouldn't go to half the effort that Blizzard does to try to convey that they're listening, specifically because of the reactions in threads like these.

I think I'd rather they did the opposite, I'd rather they blow the doors off some specs, but if they did the people that roll PvP and War Mode would be the ones on here complaining about %^-*, and not the Cult of Asmongold. The specs that suddenly can't get into dungeons would be on here instead of you. The specs at the bottom of the raid DPS would be here, and no you. The reality is they could swap talents for days on end, and it'd mess something up somewhere every time. They could tweak numbers for an eternity, and never find a perfect balance. All the suggestions of theorycrafters and forum dwellers could end up being complete garbage in some way. And then the mob would come for those changes, and those classes, just like they do now. "Nerf the DKs, nerf the Brews, Frost Mage is PvP cancer." Y'all act like Blizzard is personally snubbing you, because you're all narcissists. You wouldn't say jack !@#$ if Shaman was topkek. You wouldn't be among the legions of idiots saying "Ion hates [INSERT NOUN]" every five seconds, because you don't actually care except that your class isn't perfect and you'd rather that problem go away instead of finding something else to enjoy, inside the game or out.

Stop doing Blizzard a favor by paying to play a class you hate and structuring all of your enjoyment of the game around that one class, or stop giving them an excuse to ignore you and actually make a backed up, salient argument that doesn't devolve in the the dumpster that these treads always do. It's baffling that y'all can sit here and pump out drivel like what's in this thread over and over and over again and somehow still accuse Blizzard of not listening when you have nothing to say, and it's painfully obvious you're just mad your golden child isn't on top of the world.

A real fix at this point would be to delete enh shaman from the game, and give us another max level character with the same ilvl gear in each slot. We deserve as much for how badly you have mistreated the enh shaman community.


Like, look at this drek. What is this garbage? You'd LOSE YOUR MIND if Blizzard actually did that, and yet it's the only thing in the post that even resembles feedback. Three paragraphs, no feedback, just incessant whining like a spoiled little brat. And there's a couple dozen identical posts in this thread, and every thread like it. No one should listen to you. I sure hope Blizzard doesn't, because garbage Azerite systems would be the least of the game's problems when half the specs in the game churn the majority of their talents and spells every patch on the pretense of "listening" to forum feedback. Please, go the hell away. Stop paying Blizzard $15 a month to whine on their forums.

(Suhuy) #116
11/10/2018 07:29 AMPosted by Fugubar
[quote="207682410774"]I'm happy about these changes, talent balance has been a big problem for enhance! I do still think that overcapping maelstrom is still a problem.

Why is overcapping Maelstrom a bad thing? Seems to me that the ideal situation is to have it at 100 all the time, so you can execute any ability without having to wait.
I don't complain if I have more money in the bank than I need to meet expenses..


it's a waste of resources and makes it so there is no difference between good or bad play. rogues overcapping energy is one of the worst things you can do for example.

(Hpellipsis) #117
These changes, like with shadow, don't fix a single core problem that the spec has.
This all feels like a small team rushed off its feet, being made to do class design as a sideline whilst also keeping up with a tonne of other development deadlines, if we knew that, we could sympathise and direct our concern to those who chose to implement that kind of business structure, and not at those probably capable people, who just don't have the time or space to sit down and properly work out a class or spec without falling behind somewhere else.

Blink twice if I'm right Nimox.

(Mikesavage) #118
jk

remove crashing storm; replace with a version of RtL.

remove FoA; replace with LL talent that spreads flame shock, err .. i mean dot from SrAslt.

remove ES; replace with 30% AG ... NV SHOULD HAVE LEFT ENH TREE!

remove feral lunge ... enh NV needed a charge...

remove Primal Primer; roll into Hot Hand

change Totem Mastery to 6 group wide buff totems that we can select only 4; player choice EVEN IF WRONG is best choice.

Asd made 2m cd.. not sure why this hasnt happened tbh...

nerf ES to 15%, now increases ALL DMG YOU .... "hi mastery, how are you? oh, your mad blizz made you complete garbage. Sorry bro, maybe this new talent will help you not be a dead stat!"...

prolly have more but my brain hurts from reading these flomed, unfun talents for too long...

PS. I WOULD CONTROL OF MY WOLVES BACK... TY

(Madalot) #119
Weekend now, I can't see us getting a response until Monday, but I at least want some god damn confirmation that this feedback is being passed on.

Im sick of things not being made clear, Im sick of not being heard, im sick of trying to give a damn about this game when the Dev's dont care enough to do their !@#$ing jobs properly!

(Thorhammer) #120
11/10/2018 07:49 AMPosted by Healyemon
actually make a backed up, salient argument


What good does that do?