Enhancement Shaman PTR Changes


(Spanko) #81
Please solve our mechanical issues before you give us more DPS. The spec itself is absolutely terrible to play. I am either capped at 100% maelstrom or at 0% maelstrom auto attacking. I would rather be last on DPS than first with a two button spec I have right now auto attacking 20% of the time. Sigh, why do you guys hate enhance and just shamans in general so much?

(Vládimir) #82
INCREASE MAELSTROM POOL.

(Misnthropia) #83
11/09/2018 09:52 PMPosted by PlayerKZVLQH
This is what an intern came up with late Friday afternoon after hearing all the outrage about the lack of Enhance feedback.

Also 40+% buffs? How did Blizzard let it get to that magnitude?


Shouldve seen the buffs in Highmaul. IIRC Stormstrike got buffed ~420% over the course of the tier.

These changes dont really encourage me to want to log onto my shaman and raid every week. They dont inspire me at all. They dont nothing to actually fix anything and although its something. Its simply the wrong something.

(Phatymcdaddy) #84
11/09/2018 07:57 PMPosted by Ahhira
These changes are all - fine - just 4 months too late. These are all changes that, ideally, should have been made before BFA went live, then when they weren't, the first 4 weeks after raid data was available. None of these changes should have taken 120(!) days of development to implement. Ion famously mentioned in a QA that there were some classes that would have to wait for a later patch to address. While enhance doesn't need an entire rework, these changes don't address any underlying problems with the spec.

Ion mentioned enhance being 2-3% behind at Blizzcon. DAMAGE IS NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is a lack of player agency over maintaining our resources and having a meaningful way both to generate and convert it into damage. Until patch notes come forward that state anything regarding maelstrom cost changes or increasing maximum maelstorm, this WILL be the sort of responses you should look forward to.

Utility is another area of great concern. A minimal effort way to address this is to make Windrush totem BASELINE for all enhancement shaman, then make a talent that reduces its CD by 60 seconds and increases its range akin to the changes made to stampeding roar for guardian druids. Low hanging fruit. The return of Windwall totem as a short duration silence field is another. There's long been a question of enhancement's "niche." Jack-of-all trades of utility spells that are slightly weaker than other classes would certainly be an unexplored niche that gets enhance back to its roots of "enhancing" its party without penalizing the shaman's damage or being a boring fire and forget ability like stormlash totem. "We're missing x, y and z utility. Lets just pick up an enhancement shaman to cover our bases" would go a LONG way to removing the stigma of shaman.

L90 talent changes will do very little. Both Crashing Storm and Fury of Air functionally fulfill the same roll - sustained aoe - the question of which is better will be answered in an afternoon via sims and one talent will be deemed "the better choice," the other left to rot. EASY fix? Forgo the 40% damage buff to fury of air and instead roll Smoldering Heart's effect into it. NOW you have a player question of "do I want, sustained AOE (crash) VS rng AOE (FOA) + boost in single target VS on command burst AOE (sundering)." Want bonus points with the community? Slightly increase Sundering's area of effect and turn it into a grouping tool via sigil of chains/massgrip - leave its damage alone. Party speed boost AND a grouping mechanism? We might see enhancement representation in the MDI just yet.

Hailstorm and Overcharge changes are steps in the right direction, math will tell if they're enough, but buffing overcharge (via damage or cdr) will not make it FEEL any better unless the animation is also changed. Rename it to Stormblast, bring back the Stormblast animation. The more maelstrom it consumes, the more Stormblast-y it becomes. While in Ascendance, Stormblast has no cooldown. NOW ascendance has a way to bleed off excess maelstrom and we're beginning to address some of the real issues with the spec.

A final thought on enhancement is one of rewarding good play. It's an idea that the dev team have played with via Sephuz's Secret, kicking on a DH returns fury, mages spellsteal STEALS the buff they remove, and feral received a pvp trait that gives CDR on successful skullbash. Enhance has access to purge and kick, but neither feel rewarding. In fact, on instances of Zul, purge duty can often feel like a punishment, spending multiple GCDS doing necessary mechanics at the oppurnity cost of your ENTIRE rotation. In an ideal world some perk would be added that increases shaman damage by 10% for each successful purge, windshear reduces the cooldown of feral spirits by 10 seconds, dispelling friendly targets grants 50% increased critical strike damage to enhancement baseline kit, but turning any one of those into a talent or azerite trait would be interesting. These are the kinds of meaningful changes that are actually engaging to play and make use of.

Thanks for the changes. But please, keep them coming.
shaman purge is not on a CD and windshear is the shortest CD interrupt and is ranged. Those are the benefits over others.

(Censorx) #85
11/09/2018 05:37 PMPosted by Hiromagi
These are actually Terrible.

Like seriously. What really should have been changed is our Mastery which is terrible right now. We aren't gaining much from it and it's where most of our damage came from before the Squish.

This is just picking random things and adjusting the numbers. This is Awful.

Also just make Ascendance Baseline again, across all specs. No one liked that change. If anything Ascendance related needs to be a talent, make it Smoldering Heart or Fire in the Deep (for resto).


I’d play enhance if smoldering heart was a talent regardless of class performance I love ascendance.

(Plytofski) #86
11/09/2018 05:13 PMPosted by Nimox
Lightning Shield and Forceful Winds are both popular talents right now, and we don’t want to reduce Enhancement’s overall damage with changes to those two talents, so additionally:


Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but the way this is worded, it makes me think that they went over some spreadsheet that showed the popularlity and strength of talents and adjusted accordingly, instead of approaching it from the angle of class talent interaction.

Its a rather biased look, but I cant help it.

(Shäpe) #87
I am even playing WoW this expension but I expected somewhat of a rework for Enchancement Shaman. I know Enhancement Shaman has an issue with the core of the spec is designed. That 'change' is not solution for the obvious issues, just stop being idiot and listen to the feedback.
Edit: These change could push for the hotfix, that's no excuse for class devs.

(Chocky) #88
11/09/2018 05:13 PMPosted by Nimox
Thank you for testing with us on the PTR!


Thank for changing nothing that matter on this spec:

low aoe, low mobility, low survivibility in PVE
less them 1% enh sham in Key over 12.
Almost always the last dps you want in any grp.

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards#role=all:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=15:maxMythicLevel=99

You can't even see sham.

(Notoffensive) #89
Blizzard Devs: 99% of Shaman use Lighting Shield and Forceful Winds. Why is that players?
Players: Well because the other talent choices are nowhere NEAR where those two are as you can see by these Sim par-*Interrupted*
Blizzard Devs: OK GUYS NERF THOSE TWO AND BUFF THEIR OVERALL DAMAGE TO COMPENSATE!
Players: uh... what ab- *Interrupted*
Devs: FINE I guess we'll try to make those other talents better. Our internal simulations show they're all within 5% of each other
Players: ... ... ... Let's take a look at the num- *Interrupted*
Devs: YOU CAN'T SEE OUR SIM NUMBERS YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND THEM!

(Gemehhe) #90
I'm pretty sure there is only 1 lone blizzard guy (probably a temp too) working on ALL the class design and changes, at least for the past year. Blizzard has always been pretty bad in balancing wow classes and listening to player feedback on how the classes play, but this xpac really has made it clear, they just are not listening because they just dont have the time to focus on class design anymore, its clearly not their focus, and with limited development budgets, its clear which area has been cut.

(Notoffensive) #91
11/09/2018 11:51 PMPosted by Gemehhe
I'm pretty sure there is only 1 lone blizzard guy (probably a temp too) working on ALL the class design and changes, at least for the past year. Blizzard has always been pretty bad in balancing wow classes and listening to player feedback on how the classes play, but this xpac really has made it clear, they just are not listening because they just dont have the time to focus on class design anymore, its clearly not their focus, and with limited development budgets, its clear which area has been cut.


The Lone Blizzard Dev that throws a dart at a board with all the classes on it, flips a coin saying BUFF or NERF, and puts their abilities on another board and throws a dart at it.

people have been telling Blizzard "!@#$ is %^-*ed up" since Beta. and they still won't listen.

(Gemehhe) #92
11/09/2018 11:56 PMPosted by Notoffensive

The Lone Blizzard Dev that throws a dart at a board with all the classes on it, flips a coin saying BUFF or NERF, and puts their abilities on another board and throws a dart at it.

people have been telling Blizzard "!@#$ is %^-*ed up" since Beta. and they still won't listen.


Yeh, i remember posting in the beta forums that the class design (or lack thereof) and demolition or abandonment of many specs would be the achilles heal of this xpac. It was easy to see from a mile away, and they ignored it. They get what they get nowadays.

(Olluul) #93
At least this helps the ridiculous talent imbalance (though, how could it even get to the point where 40% buffs are needed for a talent to compete and that not be addressed earlier ..?) However, all the 8.1 revamps of broken specs are just numbers tunings on some talents and abilities that feel like they were brainstormed up in 1-2 days by just simming some stuff, and could have been implemented in hotfixes during the first weeks of Uldir.

No new added/buffed utilities, no fixes to specs that have awful survivability making them more a liability than an asset, no rotation improvements, no improvements to RNG, no addressing glaring weaknesses some specs have that other specs don't have to deal with creating huge imbalances in raids and mythic+ especially. Seems pretty underwhelming, but I guess you got your best devs on mobile games now, so it makes sense.

(Ashlorn) #94
This has to be a joke... You told us to wait 5 months for a simple hotfix that could have easily been done before Uldir started? Meanwhile, not a single issue has been adressed. You told us in July that you were aware of the rotation issues that the shamans are facing and here we are, in November, with still no fix at the horizon. This is insulting.

I really want to play BFA. I like the story, the zones, the music, etc... Your artists have done a wonderful job and I really don't want to quit a game that I played for so many years, but I'm really tired of being lied to. I'm sad to leave WoW, but seeing how worse and worse Blizzard is getting at communicating and respecting the community, I feel like it's the right thing to do.

Good luck to the people sticking around. I really hope Blizzard starts pulling it together.

(Rixven) #95
I guess all the top devs are working on the Latest Blizzard-King game. Candy Crush saga : The Wrath of the Ice Cream.

Dudes, there is no time for Shaman mechanical fixes when there is candy to be crushed.

(Elenstelle) #96
What even are these changes?

(Kalgromash) #97
This is an old post of mine that still reflects the problems we have today so ima leave them here. I hope these bandaid hotfixes are just a patch thing because the spe deserves a lot better than number tuning.

Almost all of our talent tree choices suck in one way or another - Not only does it feel like an unfinished spec but it also plays like one with a casino rng built in proc via stormstrikes. I really want to offer changes for the spec down below.

1. boulderfist and landslide - lets get these out of the way. change them entirely. Both don't work right or offer any class fantasy whatsoever. Boulderfist is in a good place for maelstrom resource already and landslide procs just feels like another proc in between all the other buffs we get. It's really not a fun talent to use.
2. totem mastery - Altho it offers decent buffs. It doesn't do anything for engagement with our totems. I would like them to react when things happen around the shaman. For example green totem reacts when our hp low, wind totem reacts when we do 3 consecutive stormstrikes and so on.
3. Hailstorm- Should be baked into flametongue opening up a cd and also having a new visual to go with it. Buffing our weapons in both frost and fire.
4. Searing Assault- Give us flameshock back over this and let us spread flameshock dot via lava lash like we used to. We desperately need AoE sustain and here we can have that option.
5. overcharge- This ability should to exactly what it says. We overcharge and get a button to press that explodes our lightning overcharge into enemies for bursty AoE.
6. Fury of Air- This ability should be exactly like remorseless winter from frost dks and have a new visual that expresses the fury of air. decent cd with AoE damage. Maybe procs windfury to enemies?
7. Crashing Storm- A tuning change would do wonders and having a stack that keeps buffing crashing storm would be great. A builder AoE for long fights. Remove the random consecration perhaps.
8. Elemental Spirits- This should be our baseline main cd. removing the RNG wolves and having the option to choose which wolves comes out completely opens up the entire spec. Lava lash build, SS build or something in between.
9. Earthen Spike- This talent feels lackluster to use. it always did but now it's just a 20% damage buffer. I personally dislike talents like this that don't really offer me anything else. This one is quite a nit pick for me.
10. Doomwinds- This replacing elemental spirits would be awesome. The potential of having this and forceful winds talent opens up the windfury fantasy we have lacked for so long. I wouldn't mind having minor nerfs to forceful winds talent if it was more consistent and also played with doomwinds.

Feel free to change my ideas and make em better/balanced.

(Cryptcrowley) #98
Summing up the devs mentality: "We'll give you this higher numbers, for when you see them rising in the damage meters, you'll be happier..."

Damn, it's not about numbers, it's about having fun playing the class. The jackpot mechanics of enh aren't fun to play with it, they are tiresome and boring. Also, there's no utility in the shaman's toolkit that other classes can't deliver. You've said that you guys removed gust of wind because it's like a blink, and therefore, blinks are mage only. So, why don't you removed time warp from mages then? It's a heroism/lust, and that's Shaman's only.

(Madalot) #99
Well guys,

Time to give up and wait another 7-8 months of feedback with no response.
Blizzard has made it clear time and time again.

They don't want to talk to us.
They don't care if we don't find something fun.
They don't care about our feedback (they deleted the alpha and beta forums to prove this point).
They have no interest in reworking specs outside of numbers.
They have no interest in explaining their decisions or choices.


The class design team should be fired, that's the point we're at now.

(Ayera) #100
Don't want to sound uncool, but how does this address the mechanical issues of the spec? This just looks like a number balance (and not a good one at that).