Enhancement Shaman PTR Changes


(Madalot) #261
11/13/2018 06:09 AMPosted by Aoyi
Is it too much to just ask a developer to share their thoughts on the direction they are taking Enhancement?


Apparently so.

(Astrae) #262
11/13/2018 06:09 AMPosted by Aoyi
Is it too much to just ask a developer to share their thoughts on the direction they are taking Enhancement? This post does nothing to address the issues as its just a number tuning. This change is one that should have been a hotfix months ago and is something they've done for many other classes over the launch period. We as a community are still waiting to hear what the actual enhancement changes are going to be. These simply are NOT them. They can't be because nothing listed is an actual change to the class. We have been providing feedback regarding the issues for 3/4 of a year now. Ion himself has acknowledged the problems. He said we'd have to wait for 8.1 to see the changes Blizzard has in store. You now have less than a month to do that job. We've been waiting.


They posted these changes a) late on a Friday night and b) just days before the new forums go live and this entire thread becomes archived/obsolete.

If they actually had more changes planned, they would have either mentioned them in the OP or called this the "first round" or something. So it's obvious that they spent the last 8 months doing absolutely nothing and threw this crap at us at the last moment. They have zero intention of following up with the Shaman community and explaining what happened to the """""rework""""" we were promised. This is it until 9.0. We've been lied to.

I have never in 12 years of playing and thousands of dollars spent on this game been more pissed off than I am now. I'm done with Blizzard. They won't be receiving another dime from me.

(Exposed) #263
11/13/2018 03:19 AMPosted by Ayera
I think WoW still generates them enough cash. I mean, didn't BfA set some sales record or something at the start?


I would bet monthly subs are somewhere between 2-3m at most. Most likely lower. We are already seeing cutbacks. Lack of creative sets each tier for each class. Lack of balance hotfixes and updates to the game. Lack of creative abilities along with more pruning to make design easier. Very dull and boring azerite traits. In other words we are seeing them pull resources out of this game heavily. At this point WoW is no longer the bread winner and likely brings in a fraction of what their other games bring in.

They need to do something major if there is another expansion.

(Orno) #264
Tuesday morning still no response. Welp, subscription just rolled over another month. Renew is just before 8.1 and guess who’s not rerolling and regearing another class to feel fulfilled? This guy.

Unsubscribing till 8.1 and NOT renewing till I see changes. Been dealing with blizzard hamstringing hybrids and specifically Enhance since Vanilla. Every expansion I’m done within a month and a half because of their incompetence and refusal to make them viable.

I’m simply not interested in rolling another class just to be another top DPS FOTM DH/rogue. Too many execellent games coming out this holiday season that won’t take 14 years to balance.

It’s pathetic.

(Packinfattys) #265
Looks like arena is gonna be even more fun now..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

(Jajbi) #266
My main issue with Enhance atm by far, which I've been maining since Vanilla, is that it doesn't actually "enhance" anything anymore. Back in the days, though it was tough to be top dps, we brought Strength of Earth totem for instance, hence the "Enhancement" name. I chose that class for the very reason of bringing group utility. So I didn't care that much about dps, it was just a bonus and I was proud when I managed to be at the top nonetheless. The Enhancement name itself at its core is synonym of group utility, so I'm at a lack of words as to why the dev team chose to remove all group utility from a class that should do exactly that per its name (not counting capacitor for instance, it's just a stun, not an enhancement).

Bringing back some form of group utility would go a long way in keeping my sub alive. Otherwise, please change the name Enhancement for something else more fitting of a purely dps class. Maybe something like... Stormbringer? -_-

(Madalot) #267
God Im really starting to hate this company with a passion...

and the worst part is they can treat us like this year after year, they'll make money despite themselves. But they don't !@#$ing deserve to.

(Ashagreyjoy) #268
It’s not clear what the intent and plan the developers have for shaman. These talent changes likely won’t improve the core issues with the spec. We probably will just end up with new best talents for each tier, once the simulations are done.

As others have said, more communication from the dev team would be more useful at this point. Is this it for shamans? Are there not going to be any fundamental improvement to the spec?

I’m feeling a hindrance in my raid team bringing my shaman instead of other Melee dps, and likely will switch if there aren’t any improvements made.

(Nadiru) #269
Didn't Blizzard have three extra months to develop Enhancement (and Elemental, for that matter?) What's with these baby step changes?

(Evilsoul) #270
11/13/2018 03:07 PMPosted by Jajbi
My main issue with Enhance atm by far, which I've been maining since Vanilla, is that it doesn't actually "enhance" anything anymore. Back in the days, though it was tough to be top dps, we brought Strength of Earth totem for instance, hence the "Enhancement" name. I chose that class for the very reason of bringing group utility. So I didn't care that much about dps, it was just a bonus and I was proud when I managed to be at the top nonetheless. The Enhancement name itself at its core is synonym of group utility, so I'm at a lack of words as to why the dev team chose to remove all group utility from a class that should do exactly that per its name (not counting capacitor for instance, it's just a stun, not an enhancement).

Bringing back some form of group utility would go a long way in keeping my sub alive. Otherwise, please change the name Enhancement for something else more fitting of a purely dps class. Maybe something like... Stormbringer? -_-


right! well they could just rename battle mage :) im kidding but is that not what they said enhance was pretty much a melee mage? i mean tbh i do not even see us being that. i mean a battle mage sounds bad azz! compared to what we are now.

(Notoffensive) #271
For the shaman that haven't given up hope yet, Pop on PTR, test the changes, and leave feedback of SOME kind. Let us know if these changes actually do anything.

(Rakruwah) #272
11/13/2018 11:31 PMPosted by Notoffensive
For the shaman that haven't given up hope yet, Pop on PTR, test the changes, and leave feedback of SOME kind. Let us know if these changes actually do anything.

my dps went up a lil

(Itchyfoot) #273
Players have been angry at class design for some time. But keep ignoring them. Continue to dismiss their concerns and their feedback and the problem will resolve itself. Because soon they'll stop being angry, because they'll no longer care.

And you'll no longer have jobs.

(Cryptcrowley) #274
11/13/2018 09:33 AMPosted by Orno
Tuesday morning still no response. Welp, subscription just rolled over another month. Renew is just before 8.1 and guess who’s not rerolling and regearing another class to feel fulfilled? This guy.

Unsubscribing till 8.1 and NOT renewing till I see changes. Been dealing with blizzard hamstringing hybrids and specifically Enhance since Vanilla. Every expansion I’m done within a month and a half because of their incompetence and refusal to make them viable.

I’m simply not interested in rolling another class just to be another top DPS FOTM DH/rogue. Too many execellent games coming out this holiday season that won’t take 14 years to balance.

It’s pathetic.

Same here! Rogue/DH are !@#$ing boring for me, and my main (Demonology) just got nerfed, even already being a steaming pile of garbage. I'm really done with this game and company, and they won't be seeing a penny from me, until they learn to respect their long term supporters and players. They've become another EA, "charges everything".

Also, I'm done posting feedback on the forums, they aren't listened, devs do whatever pleases them, and there's the lack of communication. There's tons of capped posts about classes concerns and they still don't do a thing about it. For me, this is just a huge waste of time, and I feel terribly disrespected, to the point I just don't care anymore.

(Turbocharged) #275
11/13/2018 11:31 PMPosted by Notoffensive
For the shaman that haven't given up hope yet, Pop on PTR, test the changes, and leave feedback of SOME kind. Let us know if these changes actually do anything.


Tried a bunch of different talent combos. It doesnt appear my DPS really went up to make it noticeable. How funny is this though - I have more downtime where Im not pushing any buttons. Its not a huge amount, but definitely is noticeable with any talent combo. Having FT, BF, LL and SS all on CD at the same time or because I have less Maelstrom feels awesome. Youll see it with the current optimal build. This doesn’t happen to me on live at all. On PTR it’s happening once or twice per minute now.

In tier one, depending on sims, you may be able to take HH instead of LS during raids or dungeons. HH didnt seem to proc as much as on live. No changes in the patch notes I saw for proc chance so its probably just bad rolls. Feels good though. The BF talent is as boring as ever. Didnt notice any change in game play due to that change. Wouldnt take it on live.

Second talent tier - Nothing changed tbh. Go to talent will probably stay FW.

Third talent tier - same thing as second. SA will be the go to. Hailstorm doesnt feel competitive even after the changes and having one more buff to watch which costs maelstrom and eats into our rotation is a no go. The damage is pathetic. Same for OC. Just keep using LB to pull, not for core rotation.

Tier 6 will stay exactly the same. No change whatsoever with the damage changes. CS and FoA cant compete with the instant damage of Sundering.

All in all, no changes to make anyone change the optimal build. The only negative now that I noticed, is a slight increase in downtime which we didnt need and makes the spec feel bad.

(Turbocharged) #276
I guess everyone is giving up. Cant blame any of us. 6 days on my sub. Thats about it for me.

(Terantrox) #277
11/13/2018 11:31 PMPosted by Notoffensive
For the shaman that haven't given up hope yet, Pop on PTR, test the changes, and leave feedback of SOME kind. Let us know if these changes actually do anything.

The problem is the only changes impacting gameplay is the removal of the Maelstrom generation of Lightning Shield and the cooldown reduction of Overcharge. The change to Lightning Shield makes it a boring passive as it longer floods you with Maelstrom which you have to react to. It is just a band-aid for an underlying, far bigger problem, the overall Maelstrom generation/spender system.

For the rest all the talents have been tested extensively during beta and live, the only changes are number changes, the impact of which can be easily simulated. Thus there is not much feedback to be given and all the feedback pertaining the real problems -which have not been addressed- has been given over and over and over again.

It is simply frustrating and exhausting to keep repeating the same feedback, reiterating to formulate it in a clearer way, just to realize that you might have a better discussion with a wall.

TL;DR: There is nothing really new to give feedback on, as there is barely anything new impacting our playstyle. Additionally, it is frustrating to comment the same things over and over again.

(Smoph) #278
11/14/2018 11:49 AMPosted by Turbocharged
I guess everyone is giving up. Cant blame any of us. 6 days on my sub. Thats about it for me.


I've got 11 days. They held that carrot on a stick in front of me for as long as they could.

"Don't worry we know the Shaman DPS specs aren't up to par, we'll have the changes we planned ready for 8.1"

Turns out the big changes that required an entire content patch for was number tuning.

YOU DID NOT EVEN CHANGE THE TALENTS BLIZZARD. YOU LITERALLY JUST MOVED AROUND NUMBERS, AND ITS NOT EVEN A SIGNIFICANT DPS INCREASE TO MAKE UP FOR THE LACK OF SURVIVABILITY AND MOBILITY

Congratulations! Your design team is an embarrassment. If you put as much time into making classes as effective and fun as you do ensuring that demon hunters have a spot in every meta then nobody would be complaining.

(Mirrass) #279
11/13/2018 11:31 PMPosted by Notoffensive
For the shaman that haven't given up hope yet, Pop on PTR, test the changes, and leave feedback of SOME kind. Let us know if these changes actually do anything.

I have not had time to test but per my napkin math its neutral.

AND per Earthshrine...
UsahYesterday at 7:19 PM
The PTR changes are resetting our aura from -43% to 0% (which includes the 5% baseline buff from last Friday's blue post). All of our abilities were reduced by 40% to compensate.

This means that all changes are DPS neutral. The last few days worth of analysis that in pinned is still accurate.

UsahLast Saturday at 2:32 AM
On the topic of the proposed PTR changes on Nov. 9th (https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769719552):

All analysis was done with as neutral traits as possible (3x Archive, 3x Gutripper, 10x stacks of Re-origination Array and a non stock-profile 385 Enhancement Shaman):
Full Stacks: https://goo.gl/Lj1AUd
Talent Synergy Interactions: https://goo.gl/RW9cbr

Some notes:

-Boulderfist/Landslide combos increased a lot in value but have close to ZERO cleave/AoE benefit and are nearly all in the bottom half of AoE specs. Likely has extremely limited niche uses, since pure ST is rather uncommon right now.
-Today's "Meta" builds are still among the top combinations for Cleave / AoE and nearly as good as the top combos for ST.
-Still no viable usage scenario for Hailstorm and Totem Mastery. Feel free to sim with Natural Harmony traits - we found it's still at best neutral with Searing Assault, so added complexity for no gain.
-All 3 90 talents are viable for Cleave / AoE. Sundering has burst AoE and a CC, but more difficult to hit every target with a narrow area of effect. Fury of Air and Crashing Storm are easier to land and will consistently hit more targets; FoA has utility for constant AoE slows.
-We'll look at most traits later, maybe.

To quell some overdramatic reactions I've been seeing:

Talent balance getting closer is a good thing for the spec. I absolutely agree that more should have been done at this point, but don't look a gift horse in the mouth - we could have received absolutely nothing.
Stay engaged in social communities, but please keep your feedback as constructive and on-topic as possible. A good topic to discuss is the problem that there's almost no situational choices to make and we'll still be locked into the same "meta" combination in 8.1 as we are now.

(Zaegin) #280
Ok I'm tired of this. We give feed back and you ignore it. This change did not need to wait till 8.1. This could have come out in a balance patch. Quit giving us false hope that you plan to fix the mechanics of our class.

Just do us all a favor and delete shamans. we already have high level shaman players leaving the game/class because the design is so bad. Ion said the only thing you guys measure is fun well this class is not fun were always first in line for nerfs last in line for buffs and kicked out of line for changes. I'm sorry if I sound rude but I'm so tired of this false hope.