Enhancement Shaman PTR Changes


(Titansqt) #201
Issues: 1 button rotation, too much maelstrom.

Solution: buff to passive talents that generate maelstrom, nerf other talents, give overall % buff.

...

For real, remember when they said they didn't want to do any numbers tuning because there were major reworks coming? Isn't all of this numbers tuning anyways?

(Æx) #202
This feels like a rushed tuning, because of running out of time, again.

Blizzard, you don't have to release 8.1 right now.. leave your deadlines for once and dedicate the time this and a few other specs need. Get someone who knows and plays shaman to suggest on what's wrong and work from there.

The public image of the company is going down, prove us wrong.

(Thalerion) #203
Guys, at blizzard HQ the "No work November" mentality is real.

Don't worry though, real mechanical changes are coming Soon™

(Gumble) #204
This makes zero sense. Buffing talents that were grossly underpowered makes sense, but nerfing ones that were "working" is non-nonsensical. If you have talents

A
B
C

And talents A & C are 50% behind B, then you buff A & C up to B's level if you want to balance them. You don't buff A & C by 40%, then nerf B by 10% to make it even. Adding 5% more damage to their aura afterwards doesn't make up for the nerf. You are just making them flat out WORSE.

I could understand if Enhancement was destroying damage meters and the go to spec for everything..... you know, Havoc or Rogue.... but it isn't by a long shot. It was barely getting good for pvp and you have neutered it about 4 times in a row now. We get it, no Shamans in pvp unless they are Resto. Hybrid tax in full effect.

So you buffed talents that were not being used, but not up to where the ones that WERE being used were at, those you brought down to a new baseline (and from the more experienced Enh it doesn't seem you did enough to really make people switch talents), and then brought them back up baseline a little, but not enough to make up for what you took.

So Enhancement has been removed from pvp, and for PvE they are taking a nerf to their damage unless they were using the WRONG talents previously, in which case, they were someone who didn't really care about their damage.

Man, you really must hate this game and the people who play it. Glad you aren't getting any more of my or my wife's money.

(Rakruwah) #205
push the 8.1 date back till !@#$’s sorted, blizz

(Spankmehard) #206
Can we address how awful some of the Enhance talents are?

Boulderfist is boring and uninteractive. It'll ALWAYS be either too strong or too weak because of the fact that it's just a number change. The old boulderfist at least changed the playstyle slightly.

Searing Assault might just be one of the worst talents in the whole game, in terms of "fun". It has no interactivity, just like the rest of the Enhance kit.

Could we get our shock spells back? Chain Lightning back? Why is Enhance so disconnected from the rest of the class? It currently feels like a 4th Warrior spec rather than a Shaman spec.

Like damn, even if you guys made Flame shock a talent that replaced searing assault I'd like it more.

And remember how we lost searing totem because Blizzard said it was boring? Then gave us flametongue weapon, which works almost exactly the same but minus any flavor or interesting interactivity within the rest of the kit?

I miss the old maelstrom. I miss totems. I miss enchanting my weapons. I miss the old windfury animation. I hate the new maelstrom. I hate the new talent tree.

There's so much I miss, and there's really nothing I like in the new kit.

(Victor) #207
I would do a back flip if they threw Flametongue and Frostbrand in the trash and returned weapon Imbues. Flametongue and Frostbrand are the very definition of "boring" abilities. With all the pruning, they really decided to keep both of these lame spells?

(Stëve) #208
Changes I would like to see;

- Remove Frostbrand and replace with FrostShock
- Remove Flametongue and replace with Flameshock

Then I would do one of the following to help with our non existent AoE;

- Give us fire nova back. Burst AoE
or
- Make Ride the Lightning and Forked Lightning available (baseline or talents). Cleave AoE

When out questing with WM on Enhance is so much fun only to enter a dungeon and feel like a shell of yourself.

Something along the lines of;

- Replace Overcharge with Ride the Lightning
- Replace Hailstorm with Fire Nova

Now level 60 talents have a choice of ST/AoE/Cleave

- Replace Fury of Air with Forked Lightning

Giving us some range on our Cleave

(Paint) #209
Coming from an unholy dk, Id be happy to see some number changes like this for my class so...

(Morgip) #210
11/11/2018 05:36 PMPosted by Stëve
Changes I would like to see;

- Remove Frostbrand and replace with FrostShock
- Remove Flametongue and replace with Flameshock

Then I would do one of the following to help with our non existent AoE;

- Give us fire nova back. Burst AoE
or
- Make Ride the Lightning and Forked Lightning available (baseline or talents). Cleave AoE

When out questing with WM on Enhance is so much fun only to enter a dungeon and feel like a shell of yourself.

Something along the lines of;

- Replace Overcharge with Ride the Lightning
- Replace Hailstorm with Fire Nova

Now level 60 talents have a choice of ST/AoE/Cleave

- Replace Fury of Air with Forked Lightning

Giving us some range on our Cleave


QFT

(Turbocharged) #211
This is one of my posts from alpha. I wrote it in Word before submitting it. Some of the things in there dont apply but the jist is there:

During vanilla I played a Shaman at the end of release. Once TBC released, I moved to Alliance and mained a Shaman throughout WoTLK, Cata and midway through MoP. I switched back and forth between classes and factions from MoP until the middle of Legion where I picked back up on a new Shaman. I currently play Turbo after moving from raiding on my Afflock. At the beginning of TBC, I played as Enhance, up until Cata and went back and forth between Enhance and Elemental until now. Enhance is a very fun spec with a lot of buttons (even now). There are definite drawbacks to the spec but all in all, the spec/class is very nice and I wish more people would play it.

I've been play testing a few different classes on alpha for the past few weeks but I have been really focusing on Enhance overall. There are some things I would like to see changed and I think these changes would make the spec more enjoyable for everyone.

After the past few prunes, we have lost a few very cool toys (totems mainly) but a lot of our abilities have been baked together allowing Enhance (at least) to retain some enjoyable class fantasy and mechanics.

IMO Lava Lash should be completely removed and Frostbrand should be reworked as our malestrom spender, giving us the fire/frost/nature elemental damages and that class fantasy everyone is always crowing about. I have never liked LL as our melee DD/spender because we already have a fire damage spell in the way of Flametongue. Frostbrand is kinda the redheaded stepchild of our abilities and really isnt used unless you are in a PvP situation. You can equip Akainus and run with Frostbrand but honestly, its not the best legendary in the first place for PvE and secondly, its going away in BFA anyway.

What I would really like to see is Lava Lash removed and replace it with Frostbrand at level 10. Buff Frostbrand's damage to a comparable level with Lava Lash, keep the 3 second slow but change it from 50% to 25% and remove the additional slowing component from the base spell.

Change the talents around to reflect more player choice (or at least an illusion of choice...) for each level. I personally like each row of talents to have a general theme (ST damage/AoE damage/Healing/Group etc). Mileage may vary on this concept but I think it makes player choice and balancing easier.

(Turbocharged) #212
For 15 have your primary single target tier:

1. Replace Landslide with Boulderfist. Doesnt need to be changed. This is your "nature element" fantasy.
2. Remove Hot Hands entirely. Its unneeded if LL is going away. Replace it with Searing Assault. Keep it exactly how it is on alpha. This in effect gives enhance Flame Shock when they use Flametongue. This is an absolute fantastic talent. For players who like DoTs, this is a great talent. I love it. This is your "fire element" fantasy.
3. Replace Lightning Shield with Hailstorm. Keep the added Frost damage per weapon hit as it currently states but add to it - increases the initial slow to 50% and the additional slowing component which was removed from the base spell. This is your "frost element" fantasy with a more PvP centric role.

For 30 have your "a talent that buffs something for yourself" tier:

1. Replace Searing Assault with Landslide.
2. Replace Hailstorm with Forceful Winds.
3. Replace Overcharge with Totem Mastery.

For 45 make it the "movement for self and friends" tier:

1. Keep Spirit Wolf.
2. Replace Earth Shield with Feral Lunge.
3. Replace Static Charge with Wind Rush Totem

For 60 change this to the "healing/help keep people alive" tier.

1. Move Ancestral Guidance to this spot (group healing).
2. Move Earth Shield to this spot (self healing).
3. Have a talent that allows the Shaman's feral Spirits to heal the shaman when deployed. This could also be a more PvP centric talent. We did have this ability in the past and I would love to see it back.

For 75 change this to the "CC/The Shaman buffs other people too" tier.

1. Move Static Charge here (this should be baseline TBH and baked into the totem but whatever...) and add in a 1 second drop in the charge up timer and makes the base totem untargetable.
2. Add in some sort of totem that buffs other players damage with a short burst of Windfury. We have had this in the past.
3. Add a new talent that allows the Shaman to change their Reincarnation to a castable BRez. I would love to see something like this with an added benefit of not having the Reincarnation Brez affect the total BRez' available as a whole.

For 90 keep it as the "AoE" tier:

1. Keep Crashing Storm.
2. Keep Fury of Air.
3. Move Lightning Shield (would need to be buffed) here and get rid of Sundering.

For 100 keep it as our "big CDs and/or attacks" tier.

1. Keep Elemental Spirits. I like this spell, it just needs to be buffed on alpha.
2. Keep Earthen Spike but change the damage buff to "increases all damage by 20%" rather than just increasing nature and physical damage. Remove the malestrom cost too. You could even increase its CD and add "increases all damage by 10%" for all group/raid members too.
3. Keep Ascendance here even though it should really, really go back as our main baseline damage CD.

(Motzozi) #213
The very best part of this, as a shaman since BC who has refused to play enh since WOD- is that you are taking the single shaman spec that doesn't need fixing, and mucking about with it. Apparently totally ignoring the other 2, far more popular specs and acting as if your tinkering with a class that is essentially fine counts as something important.
Not a single person gives a genuine !@#$ about some minor tweaks to the single shaman spec that wasn't busted. What about the two that have been garbage for 5 years?
Are y'all Blizz people really that out of touch now that you think fiddling with a FOTM spec is going to appear as anything but pandering to an audience you no longer give a real %^-* about? Give us some blue posts about when Ele isn't going to be bottom barrel. Give us some blues about when resto will stop being useless outside of low level mythics or pvp.
Constantly touting the changes yall are making to stuff that doesn't need fixing is just making those of us that were totally on the BFA bandwagon worry that we have been properly ripped off by you. Because that is my current concern. Ive been white knighting Blizz online for months and months, only to constantly be proven to be in the wrong.
I don't think there is a correct answer really, I just think it is bogus that issues the players addressed years ago are still being treated as intrinsically complicated or confusing, when it really isn't.
You, as a company, have decided on the approach your game takes to 'endgame'.
You, as a company, have chosen raiding. But, at the same time, instead of admitting that and accepting the flak, you continue to pretend as if you have every players best interests at heart. Its just garbage. Stop talking down to your die hard fans, stop LYING to your die hard fans. There aren't many of us left at this point and the ones that are are feeling more and more alientated by the day.

At least have the courage to admit 'this is how US WRITERS and OUR CEO think things should go, and this is how they will go' instead of pretending like we have a voice, deluding us that we have a say in !@#$.
Just drop the pretence. The opinions of your dedicated customers don't mean %^-*, if you can keep numbers up through mobile subs.

Over a decade I have been a Blizz fanatic, and in the last year I have had to come to terms with the fact I am playing a videogame that I am far more invested in than anyone employed to run it.
We have watched you !@#$ on everything that made WoW, WoW, and treat us like we are the problem, for YEARS.

Stop firing off crap you think we want, listen to the players, and stop trying to cram Ion Hazzikostas's personal view of the endgame down our gullets. Dude has single handedly resulted in your playerbase being seen as the single most toxic on the internet, and we still have to act like he has our best interests at heart?
He has the interests of the WoW board at heart, and that of his own personal career. Thats it. He gives no %^-*s about what the average player wants/needs.

I am so so sick of watching Blizzard trot out useless, nothing responses to questions no one asked and expecting a pat on the back for it. As if figuring out how to keep your feet in the stirrups is groundbreaking when you don't know how to keep the saddle on.

(Demosthena) #214
11/11/2018 05:39 PMPosted by Paint
Coming from an unholy dk, Id be happy to see some number changes like this for my class so...


Yeah, and having been working on my DK, Unholy is incredibly fun to play even if it's not the best DPS available. It has solid mechanics that synergize with each other and play well off each other. There's resource management, there's abilities to use that help other abilities that do other things.

Like yeah, Unholy could probably use some tuning up of stuff.

Enhancement could use some FUN.

VERY different kettle of fish. If all you care about is numbers, you really have zero place in any discussion on design. Warlocks were ridiculously high numerically throughout almost all of Burning Crusade, they were also a 1 button spec that was a titan-damned nightmare of class design where you just pressed that button over and over again forever and it was boring as !@#$.

11/11/2018 09:16 PMPosted by Motzozi
The very best part of this, as a shaman since BC who has refused to play enh since WOD- is that you are taking the single shaman spec that doesn't need fixing, and mucking about with it. Apparently totally ignoring the other 2, far more popular specs and acting as if your tinkering with a class that is essentially fine counts as something important.
Not a single person gives a genuine !@#$ about some minor tweaks to the single shaman spec that wasn't busted. What about the two that have been garbage for 5 years?

[/quote]

Dude, there's an elemental thread that already has blue posts and talent reworks and !@#$ in it. Please go complain there. *facepalm* And... I dunno, maybe read up on the changes already happening for them?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some resto love too, but this isn't the thread for that.

(Shamanette) #215
11/11/2018 05:39 PMPosted by Paint
Coming from an unholy dk, Id be happy to see some number changes like this for my class so...


We're not discussing about numbers and tuning because Enhancement is not even if MECHANICALLY tuned.
It's like wanting to paint your house the same color as your neighbors but YOUR house is fully furbished and has working plumbings. Your neighbor's house is only those 4 walls that you see.
Hyperbolic? Maybe. Accurate? Yes.

(Exposed) #216
11/11/2018 04:23 PMPosted by Æx
This feels like a rushed tuning, because of running out of time, again.

Blizzard, you don't have to release 8.1 right now.. leave your deadlines for once and dedicate the time this and a few other specs need. Get someone who knows and plays shaman to suggest on what's wrong and work from there.

The public image of the company is going down, prove us wrong.


Honestly I don't think it matters. They had plenty of feedback during alpha, beta, ptr and the last few months of the expansion to figure out classes.
As much as I hate to say it I think they need new class design developers. You could give these guys all the time in the world and they would still not come out with meaningful changes.

There are to many specs in the game that are just flat out boring and clunky to play. The fact that they had to bring Holinka back out of nowhere sets off alarms to me and tells me the current class design team does not have a clue. Perhaps they truly are playing to many mobile games. It seems like this company has lost their passion for the game all together and became more out of touch with the community. I think this expansion and the Diablo fiasco is evidence enough.

Personally I am also lost as to why there was not a talent tree update. It should have been completely redesigned this expansion or another talent row should have been added. There is no feeling of progression this expansion. You go from level 100->120 with no new talent row to select. Do you guys at Activision Blizzard releaize how stupid that is in an MMO and how bad that feels? Apparently not you are all playing mobile games. Getting 120 is the most unsatisfying thing ever this expansion. A lot of people put their faith into this company by keeping their sub running for 8.1 news. So far what we have got is a pile of garbage.

(Zerik) #217
So, it's Monday.

Time for additional changes, I guess.

edit: just looked at the Demo Lock thread and saw the blue replies there.
Dang, must be nice.

(Pewdee) #218
11/11/2018 05:39 PMPosted by Paint
Coming from an unholy dk, Id be happy to see some number changes like this for my class so...


People are more upset about the lack of mechanical change after Blizzard explained Shaman and Spriest were rusted out wrecks because they ran out of time, a number change means nothing when the spec hardly plays well.

Unless you'd rather Unholy get a number buff after it's been mechanically deconstructed? At which point, just roll a Shaman or Spriest, you masochist.

(Nightblade) #219
11/11/2018 05:36 PMPosted by Stëve
- Remove Frostbrand and replace with FrostShock
- Remove Flametongue and replace with Flameshock

Then I would do one of the following to help with our non existent AoE;

- Give us fire nova back. Burst AoE
or
- Make Ride the Lightning and Forked Lightning available (baseline or talents). Cleave AoE


Actually, the reason a lot of enhancement shamans wanted the Flame Shock/Lava Lash/Fire Nova AOE mechanic changed was due to dispells in PVP. If your Fire Nova was dispelled before Lava Lash, your burst AOE fizzled. In PVE, sometimes that trash mob you Flame Shocked would be dead before you got your three globals to even get started on AOE.

I'd like to see Ride the Lightning replace the Crashing Storm talent, make Fury of Air work more like Remorseless Winter (CD, set upfront resource cost, known duration and damage). Sundering just needs a better animation IMO.

Earth Shield really needs it's charges displayed on the center semi-translucent character pane, just like Flametongue and Frostbrand. Hard to find it in the upper right of screen with the other 10,000 buffs we may have going at the moment. Or just remove it entirely, and give Enhancement Chain Heal back on a 1 min CD and good numbers so it can actually be a clutch save-the-party heal.

Hailstorm should just be baked into Frostbrand, so its part of our normal rotation, instead of a situation/PVP only thing. My shaman doesn't even have it on his bars. Especially since Blizz likes to develop Legendaries or Azerite talents that benefit the most from us using a frost spell in our rotation.

Wolves should give the shaman 5-15% leech for the duration.

I could go on, but I just got off work and my brain is fried.

(Suhuy) #220
ride the lightning shouldn't be pvp only, it'd be a good replacement for crashing storms.